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  1. #101

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500


    ORIGINAL: BT Sniper

    Hey guys,

    New to the sight. Have been in RC for nearly 20 yrs and been flying full scale nearly as long. A local company hired me to build them this Adam 500 aircraft. They intend to us it for aeral photos with a large pusher in back and camara mounted in front instead of engine. I am looking for all the help I can get on helpfull tips and ideas for this build. Have the kit in the shop and ready to start assembly. Anything I should look out for in this kit or should replace, do differently, etc.

    Thanks

    BT Sniper
    BT,

    Sounds like an interesting project. Please post some pics as you build it. BTW Model Airplane News did a review of the kit in their 8/26/2008 issue. Sounds like a large electric motor might suit your needs. Try this:
    http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...odID=EFLM4160A

    Saul

  2. #102

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Which company? You have two uav outfits in town and I can't imagine either one of them having a need for outside building and R&D services.
    Never lie, and never minimize or gloss. Tell it like it is and let the pieces fall where they may. The truth always wins.

  3. #103
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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    If anyone that has built one of these still looks here, have a question regarding the front retract. With the steering control horn positioned as they show, the shaft only extends as far as the first grub nut opening in the retract assembly. Is that normal? Additionally, when opened retract packages, in one of them was a large metal punch or pin in the opening that the strut shaft fits into. The assembly had been 1/2 rounded to accept the pin. Is this to say, I should remove the shaft from the strut, position the pin on the retract assembly, and secure the strut to that? The manual is zero help and the included pin is throwing me off..
    Radical Departure..
    ..from controlled flight

  4. #104

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Radical,

    Can you post pics of the items you speak of?

    Saul

  5. #105

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Hi Radical D..... Here are some pics for you....you will see:-

    the noseleg unassembled, the bent legs, the "crushed/split nylon bushes", the broken wheel, the "lost wheel that fell off during the second flight and found after 3 months out in the paddock", all good? stuff that could happen to anyone using the retracts supplied with the Adam A500 kit. I fitted a self centering post to the noseleg as I didn't want the noseleg trying to enter or exit the fuz sideways as could happen without one. I also changed the axle cap head bolts for button head bolts - as seen on the "lost wheel" pic. to make sure the retracts didn't "hang" up when exiting each undercarriage bay f/g cover. There is very little room each side of the mains wheel assembly to enter/exit the u/c belly pans. Have a look at the pic. of the mains U/C cover and see the guides I fitted to help wheel exit and not hang up. I fitted latches to secure the u/c belly pans and also fitted dowels at the front end of each u/c belly pan - (not shown).

    If fitting the supplied ESM retracts, I suggest the mains are fitted first and check that the wheels will clear the u/c belly pod. Mine were too long and needed to be shortened for each main leg oleo, that then necessitated shortening the noseleg as well to level the stance of the a/c. If I remember correctly, after shortening each oleo I had to drill deeper into each leg and drill, thread and fit the second grub screw further down the leg. I had to do a lot of thinking and re-engineering of the retracts before the maiden flight 'coz if I got it wrong and had a bad landing due to u/c failure, that could cause me trouble.

    It seems to me it would be difficult to repair this a/c plus, to the best of my knowledge this kit is no longer available so I needed to get it about as right as I could. I haven't mentioned anything about missing retract grub screws, missing air fill valve internals. After I experienced all the retract problems following 2 flights I bought better retracts... as also shown. I looked up the internet about these retracts and found there are 3 sizes made and the supplied ones in this kit are the lightest duty. As said in one of my earlier posts: "better still buy better retracts".

    The retracts I bought are made by Trim Aircraft, Melbourne, Australia for 25lb models, (a lot of our jet flyers over here use them), the oleos are Robart #674 noseleg, straight and #678 mains, trailing link and the wheels are Sullivan Skylite, 3 1/2" alum. hub 89mm dia. x 30mm wide. A note on the wheels (if you fit them) - make sure you tighten the assembly nuts and bolts that hold each hub half to the rubber wheel and locktite them and/or zap them so they don't come loose ('coz they will if not secured properly), Each Robart oleo needs to shortened for the Adam A500 to fit the available space including shortening the springs in each leg.

    And on a last and positive note: it flys very stable and at a scale speed on half to two third throttle with 2 x OS91FS, at full throttle it does loops about 70-80ft dia. rolls crisply, looks good doing figure 8's, wingovers and lazy 8's, it will drop a wing at the stall but not violently, is forgiving at low speeds on landing and when landed properly, flares beautifully. If I can find someone with a video camera I'll post a video.

    cheers, Maxiemac - smile it doesn't hurt
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  6. #106

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    What engines are you using and apart from the retracts how did the test flights go?

  7. #107

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Hello Kinverflyer - I first fitted Magnum 91 Four strokes but I could not get them to the same rpm. - the front in tractor and the rear in pusher (with a pusher prop). I could get 9400rpm from the front but only 8200 from the rear on 14x8 wood Zingers. As a "perceived" safety margin I fitted OS FS91 four strokes and although they don't turn as fast as the Magnums (8400 approx. front and rear on 15x6 wood Zingers) they seem to have "more torques" and to date after about 20 flights have worked very well.

    The test flight was ok and as said in an earlier post, once I got up to about flying speed on longish grass it lifted off and climbed out quite well. The steep bank angle surprised me on the first turn but after I got used to it, that was ok. It flew stable, did a loop (smallish), rolled pretty quick and generally flew slower than I expected considering some hype I've seen on here as how "fast" it looks and goes? The Magnums were adequate at the time but I now know the OS 91's are better.

    Setting up for landing I was lucky to have dialled the right amount of down elevator with full flap as it kept on the glide slope evenly (wheels down didn't seem to affect anything) and kept on coming in on about quarter throttle plus or minus a bit as needed. I bounced it on arrival twice but not hard, which is probably what found the supplied u/c wanting to a great degree. With the better retracts I have "banged" it down a couple of times but nothing bent or broke. As I got more practice I can now flare it nicely and the arrivals are a treat.

    I flew it a rally last weekend and the oohs and aahs after my landings told me I must have them about right. If anyone needs more info I am happy to help.

    cheers - Maxiemac

  8. #108
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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Excellent info. Maxiemac! The pics give me a better understanding. Your new retracts look much more robust. Will get some pics posted from here before too long. Am getting everything mocked up and tested before installing, meantime remaining servos and such ordered, about done with priming/painting, (will never do that again).. still have to cut some access hatches and such.. but progress is being made! I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Good to know this thing can actually be put together and will fly!

    Thanks Max!
    Radical Departure..
    ..from controlled flight

  9. #109

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Maxiemac,

    Can you post some video of your A500 in the air. The only video I have been able to find is the one posted on KMP's website.

    Saul

  10. #110

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Rad.... D.... Just a thought on opening holes into the A500 fuselage...I had thought to do that and open the passenger door on the LHS to get easier access to the internals to place gear and the more I looked in to it the more I thought...I'm now not sure I want to do that. My reason being, I looked at the monocoque fuz and could see no longitudinal strength in there, only formers that were vertical, in other words, to me the strength was contingent on the fuz remaining as a whole tube not one with a cutout in it potentially creating a weak spot.

    In my mind I've rationalised this now and am glad to have the front windscreens removable and replaceable to get at the gear inside. Call me a woos but I'm feeling ok with that. Sure I could cut out the door and run bracing timbers around it but the more I've looked at it the way I've done it I feel I haven't compromised the fuz - time will tell.

    maxiemac

  11. #111

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Hi Slevin . . . I can do that...I've got a small camera that can take video and also have a friend who I think has a video camera.... we are currently having a run of windy and wet weather that rules out the task this weekend plus I'm off to see an RAAF Avon Sabre commit it's first public display in 16 years after a 3 year re-build so it might take a couple of weeks to get a video for you.

    cheers....maxiemac

  12. #112

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Sounds great!

    Saul

  13. #113
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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    ORIGINAL: slevin1
    Radical,
    Can you post pics of the items you speak of?
    Saul
    If you look at the pics of Maxs' gear, its shown there. A big polished 't-pin'. Now I see hows its used..
    Radical Departure..
    ..from controlled flight

  14. #114
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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    ORIGINAL: maxiemac
    Rad.... D.... Just a thought on opening holes into the A500 fuselage...I had thought to do that and open the passenger door on the LHS to get easier access to the internals to place gear and the more I looked in to it the more I thought...I'm now not sure I want to do that. My reason being, I looked at the monocoque fuz and could see no longitudinal strength in there, only formers that were vertical, in other words, to me the strength was contingent on the fuz remaining as a whole tube not one with a cutout in it potentially creating a weak spot.
    In my mind I've rationalised this now and am glad to have the front windscreens removable and replaceable to get at the gear inside. Call me a woos but I'm feeling ok with that. Sure I could cut out the door and run bracing timbers around it but the more I've looked at it the way I've done it I feel I haven't compromised the fuz - time will tell.
    maxiemac
    maxiemac, wow.. coincidence that you posted that.. as I was thinking the exact same thing. Thinking of making a new f'glass door, adding some f'glass strips and maybe a new framer before cutting the old one out. Since mine is electric I need to be able to get in and out of it more often to swap batteries.

    Radical Departure..
    ..from controlled flight

  15. #115

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Fair call given your more practical needs for battery access...where the door as scribed in the gelcoat on the outside were to be cut out I think you'll reveal a vertical fuz former part way into the opening. This could be a good thing as as ply timbers could be glued off that on each side around the opening on the inside to assist replacing the strength of this area.

    Maybe a look inside first to guage the relationship between a potential opening and vertical former to make sure you can get your hand in thru the opening would be helpful. Nothing worse than make the opening and find a vert. former smack bang in the middle.

    Now here's a thought....as you will using electric motors that don't take up much room, what would be the chances of opening up the sides of the front cowl... much like opening the hood on a 1930's car with a rib stiffening down the middle from the windshield to behind the centre of the prop and hinge each half to lift up to replace batteries fitted either side of the front motor.

    Will certainly put a lot of weight right up front to overcome any balance problems....worth a thought?....would have to get used to a hinge line down the middle.....or here's another thought...if the battereies would fit the space cut the front cowl around the blue horiziontal line to make the top of the cowl lift off...less conspicuous....just thoughts!!!

    cheers, maxiemac

  16. #116

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500


    ORIGINAL: Radical Departure

    ORIGINAL: maxiemac
    Rad.... D.... Just a thought on opening holes into the A500 fuselage...I had thought to do that and open the passenger door on the LHS to get easier access to the internals to place gear and the more I looked in to it the more I thought...I'm now not sure I want to do that. My reason being, I looked at the monocoque fuz and could see no longitudinal strength in there, only formers that were vertical, in other words, to me the strength was contingent on the fuz remaining as a whole tube not one with a cutout in it potentially creating a weak spot.
    In my mind I've rationalised this now and am glad to have the front windscreens removable and replaceable to get at the gear inside. Call me a woos but I'm feeling ok with that. Sure I could cut out the door and run bracing timbers around it but the more I've looked at it the way I've done it I feel I haven't compromised the fuz - time will tell.
    maxiemac
    maxiemac, wow.. coincidence that you posted that.. as I was thinking the exact same thing. Thinking of making a new f'glass door, adding some f'glass strips and maybe a new framer before cutting the old one out. Since mine is electric I need to be able to get in and out of it more often to swap batteries.

    Model Airplane News did a review of this plane & converted it to electric. The author cut out the passenger door & used Robart gear door hinges to attach it to the fuse. He cut out the door so he could access the batteries. He made no mention of any structural problems to the fuse. He had the batteries as far forward as possible inside the fuse. You can get the article from www.modelairplanenews.com. The title of the article is "Kondor Model Products Adam A-500."

    Hope this helps,
    Saul

  17. #117
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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Interesting idea Max.. I'll mock up some batteries and see what happens. For whatever stinking reason I can never get pics uploaded on this site. No problem on others.. don't know what the deal is but its aggravating. Anyway, if go to [link]http://hmarshall.net/images/[/link], click on the A500 link, and the 2 photos show the door in relation to the formers. Not a huge amount of work, but as yourself I'm suspicious of lossing some fuze integrity if not done just right. I'll check out the cowl area, will be the 8th before I'm back on the 'net.. taking some holiday from the office. Will let you know what I find out. Thanks for the idea!
    Radical Departure..
    ..from controlled flight

  18. #118
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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Hey Saul,
    It was that article which led to me building it. Never heard of it until then. I studied the few pics accompanying the article, and some additional work was done than described. Even studied the pics with mag. glass to see exactly how his formers were cut or modified. Found an email address for the guy, he owns EasyTiger RC. Asked him for info. on how he did door, as mine has a section of former on it, and his looked like it didn't, as if the door was actually between formers. He never responded, as I figured. Closer study shows he cut the former off the door and repositioned it, and built up the area above and below the opening. Can't tell if its a new glassed door or the original. Frankly it looks too clean to be the original door.. could be wrong..

    Challenging plane.. but hey, there are very few of these things actually flying, so I'm motivated to see it thru. FYI, exchanged email with Paul or Andrew at KMP recently, think he said they have 3 kits left, was willing to talk discounts. Think he said 24 were made for Europe and rest, 24 for US. Bit higher than would have thought, so there must be a number of them still setting in boxes. At a good discount, having another one would be interesting for spare parts or experimenting with construction methods, etc..
    Enjoy!
    Radical Departure..
    ..from controlled flight

  19. #119

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Radical D.,

    Hobby Lobby now sells them as well.

    Saul

  20. #120
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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Ha!!! Sure enough! It'll be interesting to see how many get bought, built and flown. At least they were honest with the Advance skill level rating to build.
    Radical Departure..
    ..from controlled flight

  21. #121
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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Hey Maxiemac,
    Checked out the idea using batteries in cowl.. wouldn't work. Too much weight for the flimsy thickness of the cowl, and to build stuff up would be just as much work as laying up a new door. Have figured out how to do pushrods to the rudder using carbon rod, sullivan tubes and such.. will explain more when I get to that stage of the build. Control horn should only be needed on inside of rudder, so the outside will keep a clean look... if it works!!

    Question on the nose gear steering.. shows hooking a servo up to the horn on the front wheeel, etc.. so... where does that servo plug in?? Aux channel and do a mix w/ the rudder? Wouldn't that have the wheel trying to turn in the wheel well when using rudder? Anyway.. wondering how you handled that one. Thanks Max!!
    Radical Departure..
    ..from controlled flight

  22. #122

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Rad...D... Putting batteries "under the hood" so to speak was just an idea for easier access to change or charge batteries. Battery sizes and weights would determine how they would be mounted to the firewall which raises the question "how well is the firewall secured to the fuz?" - could it handle the thrust from the motor plus the added weight? - probably better to put them inside.

    I have a Graupner/JR MX22 radio and used Y leads for Rudders and Ailerons and a JR Matchbox for the four flaps. The steering goes into an auxilliary channel and is mixed to rudder. From memory the steering servo still works but with so little motion allowed for steering (about 20 degrees each way) there is little chance of rotating the noseleg as the steering wires are in a relaxed state with the noseleg retracted.

    If you look at an earlier post with pics showing the noseleg supplied with the kit you will see a wire and screwhead on the noseleg retract. I fitted a self-centreing device so the nose wheel wouldn't rotate inside the wheel well with the potentail to 'hang up' and not deploy. The new retracts I fitted came standard with self centreing for the noseleg.

    One of the most important things to do with the supplied retracts is to Loctite every screw you can see, and preferably files 'flats' on each end of each shaft (as shown in an earlier post) where every grub screw contacts to give better grip. I missed Loctiting a couple of grub screws properly and had movements on a couple of the shafts plus lost a wheel/fork assembly on the second flight when the large countersunk screw holding the left wheel fork to the leg, fell out.

    cheers - maxiemac

    smile, it doesn't hurt

    I took a couple more pics to better illustrate noseleg self centreing

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  23. #123
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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    As said, a pic is worth a thousand words! Working on the hinges this weekend.. good lord what a nightmare.. Max.. have a great weekend and Thanks for all your help!!!

    Hal
    Radical Departure..
    ..from controlled flight

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Radical,

    Why are the hinges a nightmare?

    Saul

  25. #125

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    RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

    Saul - I'll jump in here with an explanation and a couple of pics - in the kit there is a bag of balsa blocks about 1/2" x 1/4" that the instructions say need to be half rounded one side and glued over each hinge pin hole in each trailing edge to act as support for each hinge pin. I didn't want to do that b'coz A/ too much work sanding them to the right size, B/ too hard to align, C/ too hard to drill them without splitting the block etc etc.

    So what I did was cut pieces of 1/16" 3 ply, drill them, file the round hole to square so the square shoulder of the hinge pin would fit the hole and then glue each piece of ply in place. This allowed me to make sure each pin hinge was in line and at the correct depth - very fiddly but I found it necessary because many of my pre-drilled pin hinge holes in leading and trailing edges did not line up hence what I did to fix it.

    Have a look at my earlier post dated 8/25/08 paragraphs 2 and 6 for same info. - and here are a couple of pics- hope this helps.

    maxiemac smile it doesn't hurt
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