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NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

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Old 09-14-2009, 07:48 AM
  #126
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Thanks Maxiemac for the pics & explanation.

Saul

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Old 09-14-2009, 09:23 AM
  #127
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Saul,
Here are some pics from me as well. First one is a quality bent control horn screw. 2nd is build up of stab servo tray, which I would recommend doing. 3rd is using some ply support as maxiemac did. Can't tell but I also laid some super-fine glass between the hinges. 4th is example of hinge holes out of alignment. Real pain because have to fill and redrill same spot, as it needs to be 1/2 hinge width lower. Aarrgg...

The wood on this thing is some of the crappiest I've worked with. I expect it and the glue holding it together to crumble into dust at any moment. Plus.. there are 24 hinge points to go over, and I strongly suggest replacing the Robart knock-off hinges with real Robarts. The includes LOOK like them.. but put them up to a magnet and see if they stick.. now do that with a Robart.. one is alum. and one is steel. Not worth losing a 900.00 plane on 12.00 worth of hinges. Still haven't started actually hinging, day & 1/2 spent prepping, cleaning wads of glue off trailing edges and around control surface hinge points, cutting supports, laying glass, etc...

Oh yeah.. mine didn't come with the wooden blocks Max spoke of. I contacted KMP and they instead sent me some 'glass tubing that had been cut in 1" sections, with instructions to redrill the hinge holes, insert tubes and glue in that way. Only problem.. tubes about 2 sizes bigger than hinge diameter. I'll lay some 'glass, add some ply support and take my chances with that. Thankfully most will leave the paint job as is.. you'd shutter at the horror show of weak glass its covering, especially on the wings and center section, extremely thin in number of places..
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Old 09-15-2009, 01:38 AM
  #128
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Right On...Rad...D.... - I had the same issues with poor control surface hardware and hingeing - on the hingeing note - check each hinge point hole to make sure there is wood behind the hole - I found no wood behind one of the rudder hinge point holes (as explained in an earlier post), and one of the centre wing bolts only threading into half a hole of the wood behind it - I took the misplaced pieces of wood out and glued a new piece in both places.

I can confirm the crapiness of the wood used - today I flew a demo flight for a fellow modeller who is also building this model - I had an engine out, dropped the flaps and gear but but was carrying a bit too much speed and flaired twice and ran off an unfamiliar short narrow runway and into the greenery beside the strip which happened to be a bit rough. The a/c slewed sideways and tore out the right u/c. Fortunately or unfortuantely whichever way you want to look at it - only the wood tore out (easily fixable) and there was no other damage (maybe a few 'green stains' from the vegetation).

So I complained to myself the u/c mounting wood is crap and won't support sideways loads but then again it gave way and there was little other damage. I did see the outer wing panel had moved out 1/16". I looked at it to find that where the outer wing panel securing allen head bolt went thru the skin (with supposed strengthening behind it as explained in the 'plan book'?) into the alum. wing tube, it had an elongated hole in it. Must use two bolts on that wing now! - or redrill and tap a new hole?

On this thin glass aspect, I glued a piece of thin 3 ply around the hole in the wing centre section where the servo leads and air lines exit so the wing centre skin doesn't tear when I'm working in that area.

And I have a confession to make - in an earlier post I also said to use proper Robart hinge points - I thought I had - but on reviewing my above hinge post, I can see I too used the supplied hinge points - I only thought I used Robarts - so far so good the supplied ones are still working after the 21st flight today.

Keep up the good work guys - when you fly it you'll be glad you were patient and did the neccessary works for reliability.

Saul - I was going to film the second flight today until I banged the landing - might take me a little longer to get a video for you - you'll be happy to know the guys I did the demo flight for were very impressed with the takeoff and flight characteristics - pity about my rough landing.

cheers - maxiemac - smile it don't hurt
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:30 AM
  #129
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

I'll check out the wood in those other areas maxiemac. Yikes on the landing! Good that the wood broke and not the plane, which is a valid point regarding use of wood in a design. But in this plane though it looks like ALL the wood is ready to break free!

Good to know it can take a bit of roughness and hang in there without major damage. Thats surprising. Nice to have a second engine for those times!

I'd kinda planned on using 2 bolts on the wings, since have to drill and such for one, may as well do two. Putting some ply around the exit holes on center section is a must. The center section glass seems to be much more fragile than other parts. The curved lip where the front panel and rear panel meet the bottom of the center section is very thin, take care in those areas. The supplied hinges should work okay with the extra support work you've done to the trailing edges. I think to use them out of the box and just glue right into the predrilled holes could be a big mistake. From all I've been able to figure, at my target weight, flying 65mph, it will only put something like 24lb torque on the ailerons. Again the supplied should work if properly installed, but sometimes thats a crap shoot with me, so I better switch them out!

Haven't done anything with it last couple of days, been lots of rain and consequently its very humid, everything has a sticky damp feel to it, so holding off until it dries out a bit. Makes glue, paint, etc.. difficult to work right. Will keep you posted!
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Old 09-15-2009, 07:02 PM
  #130
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

oh yeah.. my favorite instructions is step #37,
'fasten the main wing with the rubber band.'
hahaha!!!!!
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:09 AM
  #131
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Rad...D.... - -I looked at that rubber band thing and couldn't work out what it meant - maybe to hold the wing (which one inner?, outer?) in place whilst drilling for dowels? - dunno - didn't find no rubber band in the kit! - I ignored it.

And whilst I think of it - the u/c wood that broke was only the tang at the front which hooks into the front boom former. The whole u/c platform from the rear of the tang came away - which to me means, check the u/c rear former that it is securely glued to the inside of the boom at the back and along the sides of the u/c platform. When I replace the u/c platform I'll rough the fibreglass inside (and add some f/g strengthening if needed) to make sure the 'new' glue sticks properly.

Rad...D.... I have a favor to ask - do you have or do you know where I can get different color schemes for the A500? In my last post I said I did a demo flight for another modeller who also had an A500 - guess what? - I am now the owner of it - yep, now I got two.

He saw how I unloaded the A500 from my Wagon, lay on my side below the wing to attach the outer panel wing bolts, saw the engine fuelling, priming and starting process (remember he's not 'electric') and saw the degree of difficulty we was likely to get into with the supplied set of retracts etc, and decided he didn't want to finish it.

Some time back he was in a car crash and it seems his fused upper neck bones has made it increasingly difficult for him to complete the rest of the construction and manage the size of the model to continue his project. So he offered it to me (right out of the blue - I had no idea this was going to happen). And guess what? it comes with 2 x OS91 "Pumped" Four Strokes - it should have some boogie.

The above is not a brag (well sort of!) but is seems it might be an idea to change the color of this new one - maybe I could do a Rad... D.... sand, sand, sand like h..., to change the color. I could make it electric - dunno just thinking on that one!

Any of your advice would be welcome - many thanks.

cheers - maxiemac smile it don't hurt
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:21 AM
  #132
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Hello Kinverflyer - in this post you showed a pic of 'magnets' to hold the A500 cowls in place.

Could you please share some more info on how these are installed? - with pics if possible - how do you get'em and approx. cost.

btw: your post to see your construction methods was not available - seems you have to be a 'member' to access the link posted - any way around that?

cheers - maxiemac
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:11 PM
  #133
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Maxiemac..
Yeah the rubber band thing had me confused, until I realized they didn't know what they were talking about! I still have to check the wood out in the u/c area, in one spot they applied pressure to the screw so hard the head is sunk into the wood. Nothing like quality control!

Another plane!!?? Ha!! .. cool, should be able to have some fun with it now that you've had some experience with it. As to color schemes, there were about 4 different kind on the production aircraft, so there aren't many to choose from. If you google adam a500, then go to images, you'll see pretty much all there is. Thats how I picked the scheme I'm using, though it will have a slight variation. (am doing solid white with a thick over thin sky blue line. Look for aircraft N522AA, basing mine on it).

Schemes are White w/ red or blue strip, one scheme similar to the KMP kit, and one white over grey with a red wavy line, and one thats white with a kind of wavy flag motiff on the rudder area. Now as to the KMP kit, have about 3 choices; one, sand the thing down and start it over.. very very time consuming even when using citristrip, then still have to fine sand, prime and paint. Expect to do a lot of blemish filling, there's a lot of plane!

Second, rough sand the existing paint and paint over it. Downside it you can expect to pick up some weight, but not sure how significant it would be. Third would be to get a vinyl decal 'makeover' kit from one of the RC graphic shops. Typically you'll find this type of makeover on 3D sport planes such as 260's and so forth. Downside is it can be pricey, and difficult to cut a good design for this kit because of all the compound curves and such.

Thats pretty much all there is to that. Congrats on the 2nd plane! Let me know if I can be of more help. Wishing this rain would stop so I can get back on it! Maybe fix some hinge holes tonight, can do that much..
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:37 PM
  #134
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Try cessna.com & click on Cessna 400 Corvalis TT then click on "color selection tool." The shape of the fuse is similar to the Adam A500 plus the "color selection tool" is very cool to use.

Saul
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:39 PM
  #135
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500


Quote:
ORIGINAL: maxiemac

Rad...D.... - -I looked at that rubber band thing and couldn't work out what it meant - maybe to hold the wing (which one inner?, outer?) in place whilst drilling for dowels? - dunno - didn't find no rubber band in the kit! - I ignored it.

And whilst I think of it - the u/c wood that broke was only the tang at the front which hooks into the front boom former. The whole u/c platform from the rear of the tang came away - which to me means, check the u/c rear former that it is securely glued to the inside of the boom at the back and along the sides of the u/c platform. When I replace the u/c platform I'll rough the fibreglass inside (and add some f/g strengthening if needed) to make sure the 'new' glue sticks properly.

Rad...D.... I have a favor to ask - do you have or do you know where I can get different color schemes for the A500? In my last post I said I did a demo flight for another modeller who also had an A500 - guess what? - I am now the owner of it - yep, now I got two.

He saw how I unloaded the A500 from my Wagon, lay on my side below the wing to attach the outer panel wing bolts, saw the engine fuelling, priming and starting process (remember he's not 'electric') and saw the degree of difficulty we was likely to get into with the supplied set of retracts etc, and decided he didn't want to finish it.

Some time back he was in a car crash and it seems his fused upper neck bones has made it increasingly difficult for him to complete the rest of the construction and manage the size of the model to continue his project. So he offered it to me (right out of the blue - I had no idea this was going to happen). And guess what? it comes with 2 x OS91 ''Pumped'' Four Strokes - it should have some boogie.

The above is not a brag (well sort of!) but is seems it might be an idea to change the color of this new one - maybe I could do a Rad... D.... sand, sand, sand like h..., to change the color. I could make it electric - dunno just thinking on that one!

Any of your advice would be welcome - many thanks.

cheers - maxiemac smile it don't hurt
Maxiemac,

Can you post some pics of the under carriage repair as I am having a difficult time visualizing the repair.

Thanks,
Saul
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:30 PM
  #136
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Saul - here are some pics of the 'broke' u/c - and thanks for the 'color selection tool' tip

cheers - maxiemac
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Old 09-17-2009, 08:28 PM
  #137
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Maxiemac,

Thanks for the pics. It looks like what I should do before installing the main gear is to lay fiberglass on all of the formers that support the main gear. In addition, lay glass on the 90 degree former so that it will not be able to break away from the fuse as shown in your last picture. What do you think?

Saul
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Old 09-17-2009, 09:39 PM
  #138
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Hi Saul - yes you could add glass here and there and that could be ok, however I've now done quite a few landings (20 or more) and to date not many problems other than with the supplied retracts themselves. Yes I've done some not so good landings but that was me not the a/c and the u/c was fine. Especially at first which found out the crapiness of those supplied retracts, but my new retracts have had no faults at all .

Look at the pic (thanks Roger from the Ballarat club) and you will see my arrival with an engine out and look at the vegetation in the background. The pic is a bit misleading as to how far away it looks but I was carrying a bit of speed (yeah I know it looks a bit sideways and not level but I was straightening up for a landing when this pic was taken - plus it was the first time with this a/c at this flying field - that's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it!). At this point I haven't touched down, it was still going a bit quick even with flaps and gear down and I did two attempts at flairing which cost me space - and no I didn't want to do a takeoff go-around on one engine - although I now think it could have.

When it finally touched down it was close to that crop and I ended up running into it, not fast but with enough energy to catch the LHS wingtip and slew me into it. I think it was this sideways movement going into that roughage that caused the u/c formers assembly to break free. Had that been a stronger setup maybe I would have torn the f/g boom, now that would have created a bigger repair, as it is, no f/g damage.

So your call - from my now experience I don't think beefing up is needed. I will fit a bit of f/g where the rear round top former glues back in, just to re-assert this area strength. It seems fore and aft loads are handled ok, just don't go sideways. As you would have read in an earlier post, Rad...D... and I discussed the quality of the wood used but on this occasion it more than helped that it broke away leaving as little damage as it did.

cheers - maxiemac - aka Trevor
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:25 PM
  #139
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Here are a few shots of mine... on the bench, wings and so forth, nothing specific.. just showing that I actually do have this thing and its slowly getting there! Still having a lot of rain here.. humidity very high, so painting and such are no-go until it clears.. or I find a buddy with a paint booth! Otherwise waiting for parts to come in so I can continue. The last pic was just taping it together before I got heavy into the sanding..
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Old 09-25-2009, 02:19 AM
  #140
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Hi Rad... D... good job, I can see the work that went into the sanding - pity the model couldn't be bought pre-paint as shown when KMP started this thread (page 1, I think) - would have made life easier. Lucky you for getting rain, we've been in drought for about 8 years with below average rainfalls - we need more - please send some over to the land 'downunder'.

Can you tell me why you have the aileron control horn so far back towards the rear instead of in line with the hinge line? wouldn't that limit aileron up and down deflection if you had to correct say, an out of ordinary flight attitude circumstance? - just a curiosity question.

And can you tell me how you're going to hinge and lock your access door? - I'm now toying with your plan, and do the electric version - with more and more noise constraints being thrust upon the r/c modelling world I may have to start to learn it.

cheers - maxiemac - smile it don't hurt
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Old 09-25-2009, 08:22 AM
  #141
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Hey Max.. looks like the rain is moving out.. maybe headed that way!
The horns arent fixed yet. They'll be moved up. Working on getting arm
lengths right. Will post more next week, out of office and a pain typing
on this iphone. Have a great weekend!
HM
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:26 AM
  #142
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

The magnets where used to hold the glazing in while the glue dried, these I found on Ebay, (Rare Earth Neodymium). The colws are held in place using 3mm computer stand off's, glue in place these are available from Maplins.
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Old 09-28-2009, 05:53 AM
  #143
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Dear All

this is the video of my first flight to Adam A 500 KMP ........better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJIv_uFhzFU

next day you found many photos detail on mu web www.enzoriccio.it

best regards Enzo From Italy
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:41 AM
  #144
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Excellent video enzo65! Looks really good! Visited the web site hoping to see additionals pics, but none there. Congratulations on a good looking plane!
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Old 09-28-2009, 11:45 AM
  #145
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Was hoping to get the wings done this weekend, but strong winds prevented me from doing much painting, which needs to be done before I hinge them. Otherwise, cut out the door on the fuse for access hatch. Have the new one laid up, should only take a few days of sanding to get them mated just right. Slowly but surely!

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Old 09-28-2009, 05:15 PM
  #146
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Radical Departure

Excellent video enzo65! Looks really good! Visited the web site hoping to see additionals pics, but none there. Congratulations on a good looking plane!
Thanks Radical Departure I test many kit to KMP are excellent and flight very well Andrew make a good works.......this is the link to last photo to Adam A 500 let me if you find it
Regards Enzo

link photo A500 [link]http://www.enzoriccio.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=117:collaudo-adam-a500-kmp&catid=42:galleria-fotografica-2009&Itemid=41[/link]
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:02 PM
  #147
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Radical Departure,

Could you post a larger pic of the door cut out & from different angles?

Saul
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:09 PM
  #148
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Saul,
I'll try to take more tonight, but can't promise better results. For whatever reason, once pics get a certain size, well below the RCU threshold, they simply will not upload. But will try... if doesn't work then I'll post them to my site and link to them.
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:37 PM
  #149
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Enzo65,

AWESOME VIDEO!!!!

Saul
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Old 09-28-2009, 06:43 PM
  #150
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Default RE: NEW KMP TWIN - Adam Aircraft A500

Radical,

If you can't do pics a video would be great. Just upload it to You Tube & then post a link.

Saul
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