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KMP F-7F Tigercat

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Old 02-07-2007, 03:16 PM
  #51  
n9331v
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

The real F7F did not have bomb doors it had 2× 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs under wings or
1× torpedo under fuselage, I think I will do the drop bombs from under the wings, anyway I think I am going to order and extra set of wings and do this
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Old 02-07-2007, 03:28 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Okay, another powerplant question. I found the RCS50VT a smaller 4stoke gasser, they also have a 140 (22cc) 2 stroke.

Details

Displacement 50cc
RPM Range 1200-7000
Horsepower 3.5hp
Weight 3 lbs 7oz - (with ignition)
Fuel/Ratio Premium Gas mixed 30:1 synthetic only
Ignition 4.8v-6.7v Electronic
Prop Size 2 blade 22x10-12 = 4900rpm, 20x10 = 6000rpm


Probably rip the wings off, but this is more a "are these relaible engines" question. It is a littl more than a pound heavier than the Zenoah 20ei.
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Old 02-08-2007, 04:33 AM
  #53  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

chasrb

That closeup of the cockpit shows some nice quality. I wonder if the all composit reffers to the wings being made of glass as well. I'm putting a trubine jet trainer togehter now and I can't wait for the F4F to get here! GADS I love them twins[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]!!! I'm on the second list[sm=cry_smile.gif]
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Old 02-08-2007, 04:48 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

chasrb

RCS makes a good product. I have their RCS 180se and it's super reliable. I have no issues when I'm flying it's going to "crap out"

As far as the ripping wings go I'm afraid you'll need to learn" throttle managment" and you'll be just fine. Just as a warning, If you should see white fog billowing off your wings them maybe you shold back out of the throttle a bit[X(]

Later and remember " rubber side down"
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Old 02-08-2007, 05:00 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

N9331V

The folding wings would be too cool![sm=lol.gif] Great for transporting as well. If you have the notion and time please post the project with pics and maybe patterns of parts you'll need to make

Thanks for the bomb bay info. 1000 pounders and centerline tank under the wings and belly WoW
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Old 02-08-2007, 05:48 AM
  #56  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Throttle? What Throttle? Old Chineese proverb: "It is better to have to much throttle, than to realise you need more when ground get close!"

Since we don't have all the specs yet on the plane I am not sure adding a little over 6 + lbs of engines is sustainable on the airframe. If it is then I'd like to try the RCS50VT's...just think twin 4 stoke gassers.....with a custom exhaust header...

Btw anyone have the nacel detal? I am looking for pics that show the positions of the exhaust and the locations.


I am in the first wave.....
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Old 02-08-2007, 09:06 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Chasrb


Can you give me the web site to the engine RCS 50 VT you listed above

Thanks
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Old 02-08-2007, 12:35 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

n9331v, here is the link
[link]http://www.rcshowcase.com/html/RCS/rcs50vt.html[/link]

I have looked for bad press on the RCS engines and turned up little if any.

This really would power the plane well and sound good at the same time while being more relaible than glow...

Here is the spec url for this engine.
[link]http://www.rcshowcase.com/images/engines/rcs/dimensions/rcs45vt.jpg[/link]

It aparently the same size as was the 45 version, just bored out.
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Old 02-08-2007, 04:50 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Thanks for the link

Here is another to look at not as overpowered but does come in at 4.9lb = 78oz

Four Stroke Gas Fuji imvac BF-34EI. Tower sells them

Height: Oil Pan to Rocker Cover 8" (203mm)
Width: 6-3/4" (171mm)
Weight: 4.9lbs (2.0kg)
Distance from firewall to prop rotor: 6" (152mm)
Muffler exhaust outlet diameter: 9mm inner, 11mm outer
Distance across mounting screws on motor mount: 95mm
Distance top and bottom mounting screws: 75mm
Displacement: 2.1 cu in (34.cc)
Bore/Stroke: 39x28mm
Spinner Bolt: 3/8-16 threaded 13mm hex
Practical RPM: 1000-7500
Brake Horsepower: 2.0 hp @ 7500 RPM
Peak Torque: .20kgm @ 5,000 RPM
Default carb settings: High Speed 1-3/4 to 2 turns OUT
Low Speed 1-1/3 turns OUT
Recommended Propeller: 22 x 6-10 (TOPQ5241
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Old 02-08-2007, 06:27 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Does it bother anyone here that this Tigercat sells in Australia for $655US? http://www.modelflight.com.au/esm/f7_tigercat_esm.htm

I know you have to pay what you have to pay to get what you want, but gee, for $900 you should a least get kissed.

If anyone is interested, KMPs $770 OV10 sells there for $327 and they will ship that one to the US.

Jim

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Old 02-08-2007, 06:48 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Right, I saw that it would be lower if they were to sell to US residents. As of now the web site does not offer a "sell to the US".

BTW on a differnt note... in another twin forum an individual was caling into question the flight characterists of this f7f from KMP in comparison to a Cessna 310 and the single engine handeling of said airplanes. I for one will admint I started out in that fourm when I learned of that twin, then I read about this Tigercat and without question came here, read all I could and now I am in the first wave of getting the Tigercat.

A couple of things made my decision, one is wing loading on the other being close to or over 50oz per sq ft, and the next was I LOVE WARBIRDS and this plane will fly great Plus using a gasser at least will buffer the chances of a flame out to a degree.

my .02
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:12 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

The amount of lift a wing produces is not determined by wing area alone, the airfoil, fues and nacelle profiles also ad to lift as is the case with a scale 310
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Old 02-09-2007, 06:27 AM
  #63  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

You are correct in saying all components create the lifting body. Don't get me wrong, I like the 310 and TF does make a good product. I am sure they have done a lot of testing in the development of the 310 before rolling it out to certify that it will perform as best it can. I may even pick one up as well just to have a civ and a mil twin.
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Old 02-09-2007, 07:32 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Hi Everyone:

First let me start by saying thanking everybody who has been so patient in the release of the F7F. It will be well worth the wait! As you can see pictures are circulating freely of the production version and the model truly flies, and builds as good as it looks. To the best of my knowledge the models are complete at the factory and will be shipping very shortly to the USA. I am doing my very best to have them on the water before the start of Chinese New Year. The worse case scenario is that they will depart at the end of February and arrive in March. :-(

Regarding the post mentioned above about the pricing overseas, I do hope people realize that pricing is a very complex issue made up of a delicate balance of several variables. I don't feel the need to justify our prices, however the cost to maintain our advsertising, our ability to showcase our products at major tradeshows, magazine advertising, legal and other professional fees, travel to the factory in China several times /yr, warehouses in Canada and the USA all combine to add to operating costs which may or may not be equal to those necessary to operate in Australia and offer the prices in the same capacity.

Regarding the shipping cost of models from overseas, the price per box for shipping such models as the OV-10 or B-25 which both come in two boxes would be approximately $300-$400 per box by air. In most cases the box sizes are too large for the postal system to accept so there would be no savings using that service either. At the "end of the day" Its still much cheaper to support your local Hobby Shop and get the service that goes along with that.

Should anyone have any questions about our pricing or distribution feel free to call me anytime toll free 888-968-7251 and I would gladly answer any questions you may have.

Sincerely,
Andrew Kondor
President - KMP
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:07 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

I noticed a post regarding KMP's service.

I do my best to ensure that customers receive smooth, efficient customer service, as does Andrew and the rest of the KMP team.

That said, there are occasional hiccups in our service. Most times, delays are related to stock. We have a number of providers of parts and upgrades, and sometimes they have a problem in their supply chain, and this will result in much delayed delivery. You should know that in such cases, it's not our fault. For example, we have a retract supplier that has recently had a problem in their supply line with their air tanks. This has meant that one of our orders for their product has been delayed 6 weeks. Also, beyond aftermarket parts, it is difficult for us to anticipate which parts we'll need for supplying people with what they require. We generally try and keep a steady inventory of common items such as retract parts for the stock gear, canopies, cowls and etc... but more rarely damaged items such as rudders, flaps, ailerons and items of that sort are often scavenged from kits we've had returned because they were damaged in shipping (of course we inspect it to make sure it is in perfect condition when we ship them). If we have to order them, it can take as little as 6 weeks, or as much as 10 weeks to have the parts custom made in China.

We're also working hard to put in place systems to ensure that customer service issues are resolved faster from a personnel standpoint and always trying to improve them. I do apologize to anyone who may have had an adverse experience, and would encourage you to contact me personally should you need anything resolved.

Paul Morrison
***************
Sales and Media Design,
Kondor Model Products
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:06 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

I'm watching this one closely. Beautiful plane!!
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Old 02-20-2007, 06:16 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

No activity here last few days, any status on the shipping of the kits? Any more detail on the plane?

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Old 02-20-2007, 10:17 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Hi:

The first batch is on the water now. Unfortunately we only have half the original order in this shipment and the other half is leaving shortly after Chines New Year celebrations are over.

We expect the first batch here around March 14th and the second batch about 35 days later (fingers crossed)

I will be exhibiting the production version at the WRAM show. It will be the first time the production version is shown in North America. It will be on display in April at the Toledo show as well.

Cheers ,

[8D]
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:44 PM
  #69  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Andrew,

I'll see you there Friday

Bob
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Old 02-21-2007, 10:38 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Thanks for keeping us posted
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Old 02-28-2007, 07:20 AM
  #71  
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

I ordered mine at the WRAM Show on Friday.

Andrew was there with the first production model.

This plane is stunning!

I'm planning on putting Saito 170 radials in mine. Anyone else going down that path?

Thanks
Bob
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Old 02-28-2007, 07:26 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Ok, more engine discussion. In looking at RCS Showcase they have the ZDZ RCS and Roto brands. I have been following the Copperhead Venom thread about their 30cc gasser, but I had forgotten all about the ZDZ and RCS (Mackay) brands.

So if price is not an option which is the best for the relaibility, ease of use and quality? Yes throttle management will be in high order with some of the HP coming from these engines...

The only other gasser I have is a Brison 4.2 and its great...so that is my reference point.


RCS 140 RE

Displacement 22cc/1.4ci
RPM Range 1200-9500 RPM
Horsepower Approximately 2.8hp
Weight 2.8 lbs all up - (engine, muffler, ignition, battery & switch)
Fuel/Ratio Premium Gas mixed 50:1
Ignition 4.8v-6v Microprocessor Auto Advance
Prop Size 2 blade 15x12 APC = 8800rpm, 16x8 APC = 8900rpm, 16x10 APC = 8500rpm

ZDZ 40 RE F3A

Displacement 40cc/2.4 ci
Bore 38mm/1.5"
Stroke 35mm/1.38"
RPM Range 1200-7800 RPM
Power Range 4.25hp
Weight 2 lbs 7.5 oz bare w/plug 2 lbs 11.5 oz w/ ignition
Fuel/Ratio Premium Gas mixed 40:1
Piston Rod 2 Needle Bearings
Crankshaft 2 Ball Bearings
Ignition ZDZ® 4.8v-9v Electronic Microprocessor Controlled
Porting 3 Channel Schunrle
Prop Size 2 blade 20x10-12, 22 x 10

Copperhead Venom 30 cc

Displacement: 30 cc

Power: 3.8 hp

Weight: 42 ounces 2.625 lb

(including muffler, ignition
)

Bore: 32 mm

Stroke: 32 mm

R.P.M Range: 7500 RPM18 x 8 Zinger Prop

Prop Size: 17 x 7, 18 x 6, 18 x 8.

Handle any plane up to: 16 lbs

Ignition: 2W with 6V battery




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Old 02-28-2007, 07:39 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Chas,

Mackay just relabels the Moki Gassers just like Airworld and RCS does. They are just distributors. I recently had my RCS 215 radial repaired and it was sent to the Moki factory in Czechoslovakia.

When selecting your engines keep a few things in mind:
1. This is designed to run on .91 4- strokes
2. Single cylinder gassers tend to have more vibration which could lead to early airframe demise.
3. Size of the engine. You don't want to hack up those cowls. They are 190MM diamter at the biggest part.

I just checked the specs on my 170 radials. The diameter is 8mm too large. I guess I'll be looking at the 90 Radials instead. Should have plenty of power and they are silky smooth.

My $.02

Bob

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Old 02-28-2007, 10:06 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Bob, thanks for the sanity check.. I just want to have the best in this airframe, gas or glow. I was not sure the Saito 90's would be enough for the tigercat, I also had been contiplating the 170's. So is it 8mm a side or combined? 4mm a side could be managed with some creativity!

The Zenoah 20ei have the crank thread at the back of the case, which makes it a candidate for the FEMA Zeonah style on board starter, I had one of hte starters in my 27% Ultimate Pitts coupled to a Saito 180. It was great, and quite the draw at the field. Can you imagine: standing next to the Tigercat and firing up each engine and drawing them into tune...wow i was almost at the flightline in that thought! lol
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Chas,

The inside of the cowl measures 190MM at the largest part. The Saito 170 diameter ios 198mm so 4mm on a side. You could have the valve covers sticking through the cowls. They could be painted to match the plane. Just remember that you would have to remove them to remove or install the cowls. It's doable for certain. I hadn't thought of doing that but since I already have them I'll investigate that when the plane comes in.

Bob
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