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Palmer 132" AC-130 Build

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Old 09-04-2009, 09:23 PM
  #1301
Props4ever
 
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Hey Roger,

You got it, this will be my 4th project for this winter!, I haven't gone through the whole fuselage in detail so i can't say how much will exactly be pulled off for replacement with newer sheeting. I just hope i don't end up re-sheeting whole fuselage at this time, it also seems that wood is very dry and have become brittle at some spots!.

InboundLZ

Well none of these models are built easily, all need dedication and love for this model to build them, yeah it could be a lot of work but it's well worth it....

Regards,
Sam
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Old 09-05-2009, 04:03 AM
  #1302
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Ok guys i was wrong when i stated "No structural damage" on this model, there is on couple of areas and one is very very critical area that needs attention right away!!..

It's where stabilizer is joined to rest of the fuselage!, on right side it's all internally broken including the very last former that supports stabilizer itself. Former is vertically split in 2 right from the center, then all the stringers on right side have left with former!, brace that goes across is cracked length wise. This right side damage has lose left side a bit also.

Mike or any other mania guys, what is best way to fix this internal damage as skin in that area is pretty good.

I can see it's stabilizer is mounted on -2 degree incidence, now is this right or should it be on 0 degrees?, i know there was discussion about this section few months ago...
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Old 09-05-2009, 01:23 PM
  #1303
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Here are the pictures of the damaged areas i mentioned in above post. I'll see if i could get rear upper door out also, this way i can easily access the stabilizer's former, bracing to fix it properly.

First set of pics show damage on Stabilizer's leading edge attachment points on left side and from inside the fuselage.

Second set shows damage on aft lower body where lower access ramp's mounts are.
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Old 09-05-2009, 01:24 PM
  #1304
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Lower Ramp's mounting area damage..
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Old 09-05-2009, 02:14 PM
  #1305
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Default RE: Palmer 132

You have your work cutout on this one. I wish I had a suggestion but it's looking like a pretty rough rebuild. Only you'll know as your there and were just looking at pictures. Pick one area fix it then move on. Weight from repairs are going to be a issue on this rebuild.
Good Luck.
Mike
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Old 09-05-2009, 03:40 PM
  #1306
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: rcmiket

You have your work cutout on this one. I wish I had a suggestion but it's looking like a pretty rough rebuild. Only you'll know as your there and were just looking at pictures. Pick one area fix it then move on. Weight from repairs are going to be a issue on this rebuild.
Good Luck.
Mike
Well now i wish i had gone and picked up b4 last winter season!, it was in perfect shape when i bought it. Well let see what i can do to fix it as it's very expansive model....
Sam
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Old 09-05-2009, 06:29 PM
  #1307
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Props;

If you have the chance make the stab 0 degrees or even plus 1 or 2 degrees. This will definitely increase your flying enjoyment. Mike Propescu has changed his second model to 0 degrees as far as I know based upon the Hobby People C-130 ARF. It's a long haul to the end but definitely a project worth modeling. Best wishes on your build.

Frank
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Old 09-05-2009, 10:27 PM
  #1308
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Frank,

Yes i will see if i could do any changes. Presently i want to secure what i have as it's in very fragile condition right now. I wonder why Dan Palmer mounted stabilizer at -2 degrees vs most models have them at 0 to +2 degrees and how this negative incidence effects flying performance of these models...
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Old 09-05-2009, 10:38 PM
  #1309
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Another question to all of you guys building this bird, how many sheets of plan do you guys have to build this model. I got 5 sheets in total, so now i'm wondering if this is all you also have or am i missing any sheet/s.....
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Old 09-06-2009, 07:57 AM
  #1310
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Default RE: Palmer 132

I have found more damage on this model last night!, i know it's not good to say publicly but this is the only way guys in this club would know n could offer help!. Whole aft left fuselage structure has stress cracks in it, cracks start at mounting area of lower ramp all the way to root LE of the stabilizer!, it's very weak area there!. I'm thinking to CA all the cracks first and then reinforce the trusses and rest of the internal structure with strips cut from Carbon fiber from Vail/cloth...what do you guys suggest...

It almost feels as this model sustained some type of drop on it's tail that caused this much damage to it due to instant impact!...
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Old 09-06-2009, 08:16 AM
  #1311
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Default RE: Palmer 132

sammy my lost friend

there is no short cut in this hobby .
you must peel all the cover and bring it back to skeleton , then you must take off all the ugly glue that i see in the photo , after this glue all the skeleton with CA and replace all the bed beem's , after this spray sanding sealer on all the skeleton then you can cover it again .

you must do this , or you will have a heart brake .

cheers - cobi
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:51 AM
  #1312
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Props4ever,

There are 5-sheets in the set. There is also some sort of construction manual, but when I purchased my plans from Palmer a few years ago, I wasn't offered this. The manual should be available from Precision Cut Kits. They own the rights to the Palmer designs now. I have heard that this manual is not necessary for anything.

It seems like you're on the right track with the repairs - just remember not to over-build. This bird will wind up heavy enough as it is! As "cobi.p" says, I would recommend removing all the sheathing in that area until you're out of the damaged area. You may find more damage that the sheathing is covering up. Any of the formers can be remade by tracing the drawings and glueing to new wood with 3M Super 77 adhesive. Also check very carefully for alignment. With that much damage, both water and impact, you may find a problem needing correction there.

I'm working on mine as I'm reading and typing here.

Roger
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:04 AM
  #1313
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Props4ever

Glad to see you got your bird. It definitely looks like it will need some serious inspection and rehab. I have 5 large sheets as well. Sheet 5 is going to be your best friend in the beginning. It has all the major parts laid out so you can use this sheet to create replacement parts. When possible replace a seriously damaged part. I have had to take apart defferent parts of my plane as I build (errors, change in modifications, etc.). It is not that hard to do and is well worth it.

This bird is going to be heavy and will get a lot of stress during flight. If a joint looks bad I would suggest redo the joint don't reglue.

The instruction manual leaves practically everything to be desired. I looked at it when I received the kit and maybe less than half a dozen times since (over a year). Unless you really need something in it I wouldn't worry about. We can get you the pages if you need the info.

Just as a personal note ... I am using Carpenter's Glue for most of my gluing. I find it easier to use, more flexible joints (the CA creates a very brittle joint) and actually I find much a stronger joint too. Not to mention MUCH MUCH CHEAPER!!! Just my view.

Take your time. Fix it right. You'll be very glad you did.

Dave
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:01 PM
  #1314
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Default RE: Palmer 132

This year we have Blue Angles team performing at our annual CNE airshow going on this labor day weekend. I went to airport and took the pictures of this wonderful team and there support aircraft "Fat Albert"....
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:26 PM
  #1315
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Few more pictures of "Fat Albert" for our modeling purposes...
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:44 PM
  #1316
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Quote:
ORIGINAL: dmcconneyherc

Props4ever

Glad to see you got your bird. It definitely looks like it will need some serious inspection and rehab. I have 5 large sheets as well. Sheet 5 is going to be your best friend in the beginning. It has all the major parts laid out so you can use this sheet to create replacement parts. When possible replace a seriously damaged part. I have had to take apart defferent parts of my plane as I build (errors, change in modifications, etc.). It is not that hard to do and is well worth it.

This bird is going to be heavy and will get a lot of stress during flight. If a joint looks bad I would suggest redo the joint don't reglue.

The instruction manual leaves practically everything to be desired. I looked at it when I received the kit and maybe less than half a dozen times since (over a year). Unless you really need something in it I wouldn't worry about. We can get you the pages if you need the info.

Just as a personal note ... I am using Carpenter's Glue for most of my gluing. I find it easier to use, more flexible joints (the CA creates a very brittle joint) and actually I find much a stronger joint too. Not to mention MUCH MUCH CHEAPER!!! Just my view.

Take your time. Fix it right. You'll be very glad you did.

Dave

Dave,

First off thanks for the congratulations. Yes you and Cobi are right that this model will need serious inspection with removal of all warped and worn out, loose sheeting from it's main structure and then rehab. I had this feeling upon first inspection of the sheeting to fully remove all and then re-sheet it but i thought there might be another way to fix these problems.

Personally i don't like the way old glue dried out on this model and now Cobi is right that all old glue should be sanded off and cleaned from the main structure before new glue should be applied to re attach the fuselage sheeting and structural parts again.

Thanks for confirmation on the number of plan sheets of this model. I am thinking to use GPlanes Aliphatic wood glue on many areas of this model but it take too long to dry yet i think old dried out glue is same stuff as it seems, unless it's yellow carpenter's glue!

Looks like this is going to be another one of those projects!, but Dave you are right and i also believe putting all that work is well worth while on this type and magnitude of a model...

Let see pictures of your C-130 now, did you ended up stretching it's fuselage to 20 or 30 series?
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:16 PM
  #1317
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Default RE: Palmer 132


Quote:
ORIGINAL: cobi.p

sammy my lost friend

cheers - cobi
Cobi my friend, im not lost or never was, i see you online 24/7 at Yahoo messenger but you never reply back!!!. Wonder who uses it all the time....

Yes no short cuts on any of my projects, specially C-130, S Connie and Avro Arrow!, i will take my time to fully and truthfully build/rebuild this model. It's a very high caliber model and it should be treated the same way with same passion as others are....

Sam
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:09 AM
  #1318
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Quote:
ORIGINAL: rogerswin

Props4ever,

There are 5-sheets in the set. There is also some sort of construction manual, but when I purchased my plans from Palmer a few years ago, I wasn't offered this. The manual should be available from Precision Cut Kits. They own the rights to the Palmer designs now. I have heard that this manual is not necessary for anything.

It seems like you're on the right track with the repairs - just remember not to over-build. This bird will wind up heavy enough as it is! As ''cobi.p'' says, I would recommend removing all the sheathing in that area until you're out of the damaged area. You may find more damage that the sheathing is covering up. Any of the formers can be remade by tracing the drawings and glueing to new wood with 3M Super 77 adhesive. Also check very carefully for alignment. With that much damage, both water and impact, you may find a problem needing correction there.

I'm working on mine as I'm reading and typing here.

Roger
What instruction manual r u referring to?, i would like to have it's copy even though if i don't use it, just to read what's in it...Well there is more internal structure damage then just the outer skin on this model, maybe there be even more then what i hv found internally that is still to be found!, so taking off full sheeting is the only way i can see it and properly fix it....

I hv question for the guys who have built outer wings, did you guys have to make any jigs for them as i briefly saw different incidence angles of ribs between root rib to some middle rib and then to the tip!, i suppose this is because of washout!. Plus what do i need to know when building these OB wings..

Model is presently resting inverted on the working stands...
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:29 PM
  #1319
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Props4ever,

The glue I am using is the yellow carpenters glue (Lepages I think). I am very happy with the results so far. This is one plane I do not want any surprises from. Quite tacky in 15 minutes, dry in 30 and strong as freight train in a couple of hours. I love how it gives me some adjustment time when working on for some parts. It is easy to clean up while wet as well. I love how it keep a flexible yet very strong bond. I have been finding that the CA although very convenient with its quick drying creates a very brittle bond. I had quite a few joints come a part on me in the beginning.

If you would like to email me your adress, I can send you a photo copy of the manual.

Dave
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:33 PM
  #1320
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Props4ever,

One more thing. If you provide enough powerplant, don't be afraid to reinforce or replace a suspect part with a beefier version. I know some have said to be very carefully with the weight. Quite true but I would rather have a slightly heavier than neccessary plane with lots of power than a much lighter plane than won't survive a ditch in the tall grass.

Just me - I am a closet engineer.

Dave
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:42 PM
  #1321
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Props4ever,

When I built my wings, I first built a walled box with notches for the engine nacelles. I then lasered a line to work off on the inside of the wall (building in the washout). I taped the plans on the floor of the box and clamped the leading edge rib to the wall. Then away you go. Just make sure to keep the parts secured in place while gluing. Also keep in mind I built my wing as one whole wing from the wing box out (inclding both engines).

Dave
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:51 PM
  #1322
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Default RE: Palmer 132


Quote:
ORIGINAL: dmcconneyherc

Props4ever,

If you would like to email me your adress, I can send you a photo copy of the manual.

Dave
On it's way Dave n thanks in advance bud!....

What about if i use GPlanes Aliphatic resin instead of carpenter's glue, i have used it a lot on my S Connie project and it has worked pretty good on that model..I suppose when doing it right then why rush on things!...

PICS PICS Dave of your bird!!!!


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Old 09-07-2009, 12:54 PM
  #1323
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Default RE: Palmer 132


Quote:
ORIGINAL: dmcconneyherc

Props4ever,

When I built my wings, I first built a walled box with notches for the engine nacelles. I then lasered a line to work off on the inside of the wall (building in the washout). I taped the plans on the floor of the box and clamped the leading edge rib to the wall. Then away you go. Just make sure to keep the parts secured in place while gluing. Also keep in mind I built my wing as one whole wing from the wing box out (inclding both engines).

Dave
Can you please post couple pics of this wall box, i like to get good idea how you did it...Thanks

Sam
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Old 09-07-2009, 12:59 PM
  #1324
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Quote:
ORIGINAL: dmcconneyherc

Props4ever,

One more thing. If you provide enough powerplant, don't be afraid to reinforce or replace a suspect part with a beefier version. I know some have said to be very carefully with the weight. Quite true but I would rather have a slightly heavier than neccessary plane with lots of power than a much lighter plane than won't survive a ditch in the tall grass.

Just me - I am a closet engineer.

Dave
Yes it will be weight critical model, it's very true but i see your point also and it all makes perfect sense to me, i myself rather have bit heavier model instead of light one that would easily break off on landings or into small ditches/tall grass/weeds. As far as power is concerned im starting to think of ST G61s at this time unless i can get good deal on RCV 90 4 strokers!...

Sam
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Old 09-07-2009, 01:13 PM
  #1325
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Default RE: Palmer 132

Anyone of you Palmer C130 Mania guys are on FaceBook by any chance?
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