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  1. #176

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Flyalan, those OV-10 pics you have look familiar, is that the one on display at Hurlburt Field in Florida? I am also installing the Century Jet retracts in the OV-10 that I am building, had to modify a lot of the internal structure for them but well worth it.
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  2. #177

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Another view, thinking about adding removable gear doors for static display purposes.
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  3. #178

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Gear extended. The boom with the retract and an O.S. .91 weighs about 5 lbs.
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  4. #179

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Bash-ace,

    The pics are mostly from various sources on the web. A few I took at the Air Force Museum in Dayton.

    Take a look at the 4 "sheet" looking graphics on page 1 (Bronco 1,2,3,4). A frient found these on the web. They are from Russian or Chech sources. When enlarged you can use them for much of the panel line detail, etc. I had them printed on a large formay printer at Kinko's.

    I started to do the retract openings the same way you did but have decided to go ahead and make funtional gear doors. What the heck, this thing can't get too much more complicated!

    The Century Jet retracts did require a little re-engineering. The info they sent with the retracts from Century helped some but it was still a bit of a chore.

    Don't ask me how I am doing the gear doors yet. I will be using SonicTronics hinges but am trying to us only 1 air cylinder per door set. I will nee to work out some sort of mechanism for this. Any thoughts?

    Will try yo post more pics to the webpage as I get more done. With winter coming up I hope to get it finished soon.

    Cheers...

  5. #180

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    flyalan,

    reason I asked about the pics, is because those look like the exact ones I took a couple of years ago for a guy who was building a bronco. There should be a bunch more from different angles.

    as for gear doors, I'm building this Bronco as a contract build, and time is money, plus the customer wanted a "hassle free" aircraft to a certain extent. The main gear doors would be about a foot long X2 on each boom, which is already a heavy assembly to begin with. The Bronco looks odd without the gear doors when the gear is down, that is why I may make some removable doors for display reasons, that way they can look scale without the hassles. I'll just recess some inner nyrod bushings into the boom and put pins of some sort on the doors that would just slide into the nyrod bushings for easy installation and removal.

    the graphic sheets are awesome, thanks for posting those, they will be help to a lot of OV-10 builders I'm sure. Have you built the stab yet? I have a few ideas to keep it from "blowing" off. I also used Sullivan Precision Rod (carbon fiber reinforced) flex rods for the tail group controls, it's supported every 3 inches, shouldn't be a problem, it will not expand or contract with temperature changes like normal nyrod.

  6. #181

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    I understand about the gear doors. They are going to be large and a pain! I am trying to find good, reasonably priced gear door hinges. Any thoughts. Have looked at sonic-tronics and Fiorenze's.

    I used dowels and 4-40 bolts to hold the horiz stab to the vert stab. Dowels as guides and 2 4-40 bolts with blind nuts buried in the horiz stab. My horiz stab is about 3/32" thicker than the plans. I decided to use two hitec wing servos (the thin ones) for the elevator. I burried them in the horiz stab which resulted in the increased thickness. Access panels to both servos and the connections. Ran servo extensions up the vert stabs (one on each nacelle) to connect to each servo. Will post a pic or two of this setup when I get a chance. This setup seems to be sturdy and slop free. I hate using bellcranks!

  7. #182

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Posted pics of the Horiz stab setup on page 5 of my web.
    Alans Bronco Pics

    Alan

  8. #183

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    flyalan,

    that's a great collection of pics you have there, looks like you've been doing your homework.

    I've been pondering how I was going to set up the nose gear steering, your setup looks like the way to go.

  9. #184

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    I used a bellcrank in the front of the nose section connected to a mini-servo just in from of the windscreen area. The bellcrank connects with kevlar cable to the horns on the nosegear. The bellcrank and servo are above the wheelwell area. Unfortunately didn't take any photos of that area before I sheeted it up. Hoping I don't have to open up later, but can nack an access hatch on the top of the nose if necessary.

    Have a few more photos that I need to get reprinted (photos damaged). Will scan those in at some point.

  10. #185

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    RE: Bronco balancing

    I am just finishing up Palmers ov-10 bronco. finished at 98" in wing span. Weight is about 28 3/4 lbs. Powered by 2 OS 1.20's.
    We did not feel that .91 would be enough. Has anyone had problems balancing the plane at the 4 1/4" back form the leading edge as suggested in the plans.
    Thanks,
    Bill Barringer
    planerc@comcast.net

  11. #186
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    Sierra Precision retracts

    I bought a Uravitch 81" Bronco. My first twin. Excited? You bet! I ordered the accessories, wood and engines............all I needed was retracts.

    Sierra Precision has a good reputation for quality and I liked the looks of their gear as seen on their website. However, their site stated that the gear would not be available until March, 2004. It was December, 2003 when I read that. Part of me wanted to get started on this bird then, order the gear in March and have it ready to go come spring. It's a good thing I didn't..........it is now October, 2004 and the gear is still not available!

    That, in itsself, is bothersome but what really toasts by buns is the lack of response to my inqueries to Sierra Precision. Actually, no response would be more like it. I have sent them several e-mails with not one reply. I got a chance to talk with one of the guys at their booth at Warbirds Over Delaware this year and he said they hadn't worked out the spring rates yet. He said that different Broncos they were testing were coming in at different weights and they didn't know what spring would provide a happy medium. Hello? Put a few different springs in the box with the gear and let the customer choose, if that's the case.

    I've got a kit that's heading toward its first birthday and still no "good" gear! I'm tempted to just sell it off to someone who doesn't mind using Spring Air's or, YUCK!, Century Jet's. All because the brand I want is made by a company that is unresponsive to their customers.

    I'm just glad the Bronco isn't taking up space in my shop in a semi-finished state.

    Al
    To wives and sweethearts. May they never meet.

  12. #187
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    RE: Fiberglass parts for 81"OV10

    Hello Al:



    The centerline cannon was a three barreled GE M-197 Gatling Gun with full axis movement. Two airframes were mounted with the M-197, 155395 as seen above and 155396. These sister ships were NA airframes sent to Nam on a proof of concept tour for six months. Both airframes were used in every evolutionary step of the OV-10. Upon return to China Lake in the States it was decided during the Service Life Extension Program to not go with M-197s though it was retained for a NA marketing plan to sell the NA-300 for use against AN-2 Colts in North Korea as a ground support airframe.

    The program tag for this project was the NOS/NOGs Night Operations Ship/Gun Ship. They did follow through with NOS but with sponson mounted MGs not the Gatling Gun setup.

    I am currently building 155395 as an 81.6" w/s NOS/NOGs. The color photo above is incorrect, that's three shades of gray not tan and brown.

    Ed
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  13. #188
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    RE: Fiberglass parts for 81"OV10

    Hi Ed,

    Actually, the cannon that was mounted under the Broncos I saw looked nothing like the one in your picture. These were BIG guns! Like I said, about eight feet long. There was no turret; it was rigidly mounted. The cannon was a single barrel rather than a multi-barrel. The field modification was done by VMO-2 and was not sanctioned by NA. I only wish I had a picture!

    Al
    To wives and sweethearts. May they never meet.

  14. #189
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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"



    That's a Vulcan Mark-IV 20-mm gun conversion in a centerline enclosure which was fit onto jets of the era. IMHO this is what precip'd the NOS/NOGs program where the rear seat was given an infrared targeting capability and eventually a complete FLIR unit with the articulated M-197. The centerline 20 was aimed using an optical sight. Knowing the bump and grind of the OV-10, aiming this was a relative term...

    I found this statement on the net with reference to 20mm pods on F4's. Note the round count for the pods. "SUU-23 GUN PODS that the f-4's carried, on the inboard, outboard, and centerline stations. We reloaded the gun pods with 1100 rounds of 20MM AMMO."
    Ed Clayman,
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  15. #190

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Hey Ed,

    That's one of the pics I am using for my Bronco. Mine will be "Black Pony". Getting close to the covering stage. Just need to finish retract installation and preliminary work on gear doors. Sending my retracts back to Century to get the updated version of the mains. I had the first set before they changed the design.

    cheers

  16. #191
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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Wasn't aware Bruce had decided to turn the knuckles like the real thing at 1/6th scale. I bought my 107 degree nose and main heads from him two years ago. Sent him the scale drawings at 1/6th redrawn to reflect a bulkhead where it needed to be so anyone building Rich's would be able to place everything moving in the right direction. Because no one was buying at the time he wasn't going to fool with them.

    Considering the entire retract community is less than stable... I was going to get the knuckles for the mains turned some where and build out the rest myself. Seems everyone wants to take short cuts on the compression strut. They relocate the tangs and refuse to make the compression strut so the spring can be swapped out so we can control the amount of buck in our broncos when down and locked. I personally want a three inch compression rise and fall. When I touch the brakes I want the tail to rise and fall a scale 2~3 ft.

    By the way, after two years I've finally got the 1/6th scale canopy. Getting that was like pulling eye teeth. How's everything in the Tri-Cities? I'll be back to Bell Heli in December.
    Ed Clayman,
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  17. #192

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Yea, I had sent in the plans to Bruce also probably just a few months after you did. Sometime after I received my set he went to a show and someone spoke to him about changing the mains a little. He said he would exchange mine for the new ones. Starting to worry about the how much they compress though. My bird is going to be about 19lbs when all is said and done. We'll see....

    Weather pretty rainy around here lately. Did get some flying in on Monday. Good building weather.
    What's that about the canopy? Can't remember if I got my canopy from you or from Rich.
    Should have this bird finally finished by the first of the year. Hope to get it over to Joe Nall when that comes around.
    Just ordered an Iron Bay F6F to start building after the Bronco. Should go a little quicker I hope.
    Between work and parenting I have a hard time finding quality building time.

    Look me up in December.
    423-391-0812

    Alan

  18. #193
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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Rich's canopy frame positions and widths are not scale. The overall canopy is flatter on top. Not that that is of any big issue to the kit builder, its got to be correct when looked at head-on on my NOS/NOGs. I've got a new canopy coming in that I will be making available with the cockpit next month. Will let you know when I'm heading your way.
    Ed Clayman,
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  19. #194
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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Hi Ed,

    That last picture is getting closer. The cannon-equipped Broncos I recall did not have any type of aerodynamic bodywork surrounding the weapon. Maybe this was removed when I saw it on the flightline but I distinctly remember that the cannon had a conical flash suppressor and the barrel was very large in diameter implying a larger caliber than 20mm. But, then, that was thirty-four years ago. Now I'm depressed!

    The bird you have pictured from VAL-4 brought back some memories. Though they operated in the Mekong Delta area and I was in Da Nang, I was familiar with them in a back handed way. We were an intermediate maitenance facility and would get their power plant mechs on occasion to come up and work with us. They were a great outfit and certainly kicked some cong butt! I'm proud to have known a few of them.

    Al
    To wives and sweethearts. May they never meet.

  20. #195

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Bash Ace, I have an 81" Bronco that I used the sullivan carbon fiber rods in. It worked great. I built the fin, sheeted one side, then installed the rod with the max radius bends possible, then sheeted over the rod. I also stiffenned the fins with a laminant of 1/64 ply on the outside of each fin surface. Plane weighs 19.5 and flys well on O.S.50SX's. After about 10th flight I had an engine out and parked it in the top of a big pine tree but that's another story. I'm currently building a new wing. DWR.

  21. #196

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    RE: Palmer's Bronco

    ORIGINAL: crashnburn

    Why did you return the plans? What was wrong with them? Was it strictly because the plane wasn't prototyped, and if so how did you determine that. I too have contemplated the Palmer Plans for its size. He claims to have drawn museum quality, exact reproductions of the full scale plane. If thats true, and if accurately built and balanced it should fly something like the full scale, shouldn't it? I am interested in your feedback. Thanks![sm=drowning.gif]
    The Palmer plans were derived from full-scale OV-10 plans, and are supposed to be true scale. Palmer claims that they duplicate the stressed-skin construction of the full scale. Since I planned to build with balsa, I worried about the validity of this method. I also realized that the design was seriously overcomplicated, and I had my doubts about the selection of materials and bracing needed to sustain the anticipated structural loads. He also failed to disclose when I called to discuss his plans that NOBODY had actually built a model from these plans - EVER. He also indicated that Stan's Fibertech was producing all the glass parts and the canopy. Stan himself disagreed with that statement - I called him, too!

    I think the Palmer plans would make a fantastic static bird. I doubt that it can be built to make the projected weight and still survive flight and landing stresses. As weight increases, it will get worse. I didn't wish to spend a ton of time and money building it, wait for a canopy to appear out of thin air, and then have the thing self-destruct.

    What kind of person releases a plan (and charges top dollar for it) without having built at least ONE model from the plan? Heck, if I wanted that, I'd have drawn my own!
    Trent Combs
    Fly \'em until the last piece stops!

  22. #197
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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Hi Trent:

    While I don't intend to sound as if bashing is at hand...I agree that Dan's architectural engineering tends to go a wee bit too far sometimes...while when I viewed other plans of his...things looked better than my impression of the OV-10.

    There are a few specific concerns...the two piece (front to rear) sectioning of the tail booms with nylon bolts. While anyone who has ever seen an OV-10 fly would know they yaw an awfully lot when they reach ground effect... it is going to catch most pilots by surprise at the last moment...unless they land it hot. With this yaw is going to come a pretty severe side load as the plane initially touches down and more or less yanks in the direction of the wheel initially touching. The resulting pull in the opposite direction creates a whipping action for the booms, horiz stab and all joints past the wing.

    1. Making the boom a single piece and gusseting the joints between the formers and attachment points with small balsa triangles will serve to strengthen it back there.

    2. Converting the wing into a three piece by clipping outside the nacelles will prove to unitize everything.

    3. The same yawing motion described earlier will work against the nose retract mounting location as well. The nose will get caught in the middle of that initial mains whipping action. To counter this you can create an elongated "z" doubler which will run from where it serves to strengthen the nose retract mounting...then runs back along the cockpit sides, then up just behind the observer/weapons officer's rear seat to a rib shaped piece in the wing's center section locked to the spar(s). This need be no more than lite ply laminated to the balsa along sides of the cockpit from the retract mount in front to becoming a doubler in the wing. Having built a prototype for my 1/6th OV-10D NOS-NOGs it became obvious this doubler would serve Dan's design even more because of its light weight design. At 1/6th the all up is targeted at 26# with a pair of Saito 120DP's.

    4. As for people who've built Dan's. Gregg Hahn flew one in team scale built by someone in Ohio back about five years ago. I believe it had MDS 108's and was an absolute rocket...far from prototypical speed and maneuvers that took a ton of sky instead of the tight pattern the OV-10 was designed to provide. The fastest the full scale is capable of flying outside of a dive was 287 mph and that was the D+ with Garretts.
    Ed Clayman,
    FliteMetal.com

  23. #198
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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    HI Guys, Great posts! A wealth of info. I posted early in this thread when I started my Uravitch Bronco, and was wondering how everyone is coming along with their Broncos. Any pics?any updates?
    Phil
    CORSAIR Brotherhood #20

    Gimme a vector Victor....

  24. #199
    Fili's Avatar
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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    Gentleman, I elected to make the nose elongated as per the photo above from Scaleaero-RCU (to be different as well as for ease of balancing). But I have a question...... With the bellygun mounted on that version, there are no sponsons. Mr.Scaleaero-RCU, you said one of the NOG versions had MGs mounted on the sponsons. Did that version have the elongated nose, and please pardon my ignorance, what is the hardware under the nose?
    Phil
    CORSAIR Brotherhood #20

    Gimme a vector Victor....

  25. #200

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    RE: OV-10 Bronco 81"

    The sponsons carried two M-60 MG's each, the Bronco with the mini gun turret on the aft belly had no sponsons.
    Hope this helps.


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