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  1. #826
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90


    ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me

    Gary, Sorry to hear that,,
    Good new is Rich has then on Sale this week for $229 + shipping via his web site (sale ends today)
    I may just order one too
    Thanks. I have 3/4 of one on hand and another whole one on the way. I will build up another one. Maybe do California Cutie this time.
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  2. #827

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Hay Ram3500,
    Sorry to hear about your loss...it always hurts when we lose one.

    I know of only a cpuple of other P-38 kits out in hobby land...and from what I can see so far, N.P. P-38 is one of the lightest airframes sold. I have looked hard at G&P scale models, for they sell a nice P-38 w/88" wing span, but the price is close to $800.00 with all the goodies shipped. With out a doubt, the N.P. issue of the model is the best price kit on the market and the most prolific model I've seen so far.

    All the P-38 models seem to have a wicked single engine out problem...and my real flight sim shows this to be the way of the beast. Single engine control is at best marginal with this airframe, and you can second guess yourself right into a rut, over what one could have done, just prior to impact. I've flown a lot of twins over the years and I've lost them too, when I lost an engine. The only model that seemed to have a great single engine flight envelope, is the F-82. The P-38 has a wicked stall/spin condition if you get to slow, with one engine caged. That is why you don't see a lot of P-38's out on the field and such a rare war bird. Yet...there is nothing like it in the air...nothing that gets the blood flowing like a P-38 in the air.

    I'm now installing all the radio gear, recovering my wings with super monicote and setting up the model for flight. I've not painted her yet, but the end is near. I'm running only two servo's in the pilot pod, but I'm also installing two battery checkers on the instrument panel (y'ed off of the stearing servo, and retract servo). I'm running two receivers, and the stearing servo is run off of the left receiver, and the retract servo is driven by the right receiver. Each engine servo is run off of its own channel...so engine set up is more easy for me this way. Two 2000 ma batteries and two 8 channel 2.4 gig Airtronics receivers, w/each receiver driving 6 servo's. The model is beginning to gain weight as I add servo's and covering.

    Soft Landings Always,
    Bobby of Maui
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  3. #828

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Hi guys...

    I am into the wings now, with all the other work on the engine nacells and pilot pod just about finished. I decided to weight out the model as close to flight ready as I could and came up with a total weight @ 17.125# without painting. The wing is coverd with Super Monacote, and all four servo's installed. I'm running wires and retract air lines through the wing and installing invasion stripes. I needed to modify the wing just a bit to run wires into the engine nacells, but this was simple to do.

    Starbord engine nacell @ 4# 13.0 oz. / Port engine nacell @ 4# 13.5 oz. / Pilot pod @ 2# 4.1 oz. / Canopy, fiberglass tubocarger covers & oil coolers @ 1# 5.4 oz. / Wing w-servo's and all connections @ 3# 4.4 oz. / tail feathers @ 9.6 oz.

    Maybe painted she will hit 18#...and I had felt I could go at or near 15#'s...boy was I dreaming. So how do you feel she will fly at 19#'s ? I feel the two .60's will fly her with authority...and I must admit, that this is one of the more complex models I've ever built. So...Flying this bird will be another story... : )

    Soft Landings Always,
    Bobby of Maui
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  4. #829
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90


    ORIGINAL: Bob Paris

    Hi guys...

    I am into the wings now, with all the other work on the engine nacells and pilot pod just about finished. I decided to weight out the model as close to flight ready as I could and came up with a total weight @ 18# 6 oz. without painting. The wing is coverd with Super Monacote, and all four servo's installed. I'm running wires and retract air lines through the wing and installing invasion stripes. I needed to modify the wing just a bit to run wires into the engine nacells, but this was simple to do.

    Maybe painted she will hit 19#...and I had felt I could go at or near 15#'s...boy was I dreaming. So how do you feel she will fly at 19#'s ? I feel the two .60's will fly her with authority...and I must admit, that this is one of the more complex models I've ever built. So...Flying this bird will be another story... : )

    Soft Landings Always,
    Bobby of Maui
    Hello Bob. My P-38 was about 20lbs and I felt she could handle even more weight. The flaps are very effective and she has that 90" flat bottom wing. Please be assured, you will have no problems. With the 2-stroke 60s, you will have plenty of power and even on just one engine. I have learned that, with 4-strokes on her, it is a different story. I had (2) single engine landings on the 2-strokes, and (2) single engine crashes on the 4-strokes. With 4-strokes, you need to cut the good engine and establish your best glide configuration and hope for the best. Period!
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  5. #830

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Hi Guys,
    I am very pleased that I opened up my wings for inspection...true, I planed on recovering them with Super Monicote anyway, but the glue job on the set of wings I have was an accident looking for an excuse. My forward leading edge on both wings was half glued, and it seemed that who ever assembled the wing, was looking to build the wing, with as liittle glue as possible. several cap strips fell off of the wing with the removal of the factory covering on my model. I needed to reglue all of the port and starboard wings for safty and pray this does the trick. There were a few places I was not able to reach...so I just did the best I could with thin and medium CA glue.

    Wing Loading Chart for different empty gross weights of the Nitro Plane 90" P-38.

    17# x 16oz./lbs = 272 oz. 1085 sq. in./144 sq. in. = 7.54 sq. ft. 272/7.54 = 36.07 oz./sq.ft. wing loading.

    18# x 16oz./lbs = 288 oz. 1085 sq. in./144 sq. in. = 7.54 sq. ft. 288/7.54 = 38.20 oz./sq.ft. wing loading.

    19# gross weight will have a wing loading of..................................... 40.3 oz./sq.ft. wing loading.

    20# gross weight will have a wing loading of..................................... 42.4 oz./sq.ft. wing loading.

    21# gross weight will have a wing loading of..................................... 44.6 oz./sq.ft. wing loading.


    Well here is the math on the wing loadig of this airframe, depending on your gross empty weight. At the 12# Nitro Planes tells you in the build up manual, you would have a 25.46 oz./ft. wing loading...but now I know that this 12# figure is not very reasonable. I doubt you could build this kit under 13# with fixed gear, and a pair of light weight .46 class engines. I was first going to use Lado electric retracts, but went with Spring Air, for safty reasons and the lightness of the acturators with Spring Air.

    So now you may have an idea of just what the wing loading is going to be on your airfame.

    The projected Gross Empty Weight of my airframe in the above piece I did before was added up wrong, and....I'm now projecting 17.125#'s, before paint...or near 18# ready to fly.

    Soft Landings Always,
    Bobby of Maui
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  6. #831
    scale only 4 me's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    I wonder if anyone has ever come up with a Flyability chart or graph to have a real comparison of "windloading to wing area"
    A 20lbs plane w/1100 sq.in of area wlll land almost like a trainer, were as a 500 sq. in. airframe with the same wingloading would be a handfull
    You're so smart,, you figured out how to read this!! Or maybe ya just got lucky??

  7. #832
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90


    ORIGINAL: Bob Paris

    Hi Guys,
    I am very pleased that I opened up my wings for inspection...true, I planed on recovering them with Super Monicote anyway, but the glue job on the set of wings I have was an accident looking for an excuse. My forward leading edge on both wings was half glued, and it seemed that who ever assembled the wing, was looking to build the wing, with as liittle glue as possible. several cap strips fell off of the wing with the removal of the factory covering on my model. I needed to reglue all of the port and starboard wings for safty and pray this does the trick. There were a few places I was not able to reach...so I just did the best I could with thin and medium CA glue.

    Wing Loading Chart for different empty gross weights of the Nitro Plane 90'' P-38.

    17# x 16oz./lbs = 272 oz. 1085 sq. in./144 sq. in. = 7.54 sq. ft. 272/7.54 = 36.07 oz./sq.ft. wing loading.

    18# x 16oz./lbs = 288 oz. 1085 sq. in./144 sq. in. = 7.54 sq. ft. 288/7.54 = 38.20 oz./sq.ft. wing loading.

    19# gross weight will have a wing loading of..................................... 40.3 oz./sq.ft. wing loading.

    20# gross weight will have a wing loading of..................................... 42.4 oz./sq.ft. wing loading.

    21# gross weight will have a wing loading of..................................... 44.6 oz./sq.ft. wing loading.


    Well here is the math on the wing loadig of this airframe, depending on your gross empty weight. At the 12# Nitro Planes tells you in the build up manual, you would have a 25.46 oz./ft. wing loading...but now I know that this 12# figure is not very reasonable. I doubt you could build this kit under 13# with fixed gear, and a pair of light weight .46 class engines. I was first going to use Lado electric retracts, but went with Spring Air, for safty reasons and the lightness of the acturators with Spring Air.

    So now you may have an idea of just what the wing loading is going to be on your airfame.

    The projected Gross Empty Weight of my airframe in the above piece I did before was added up wrong, and....I'm now projecting 17.125#'s, before paint...or near 18# ready to fly.

    Soft Landings Always,
    Bobby of Maui
    GOOD stuff Bob.

    I will say that my original wing was very strong. It took a trip through the woods in the first single engine with the 4-strokes, and in spite of some obvious strikes on the leading edge, it needed no repair. Not to say that another Chinese guy didn't use less glue on yours.

    Again, even at almost 20lbs, this plane will fly under power on one 2-stroke 61 or larger. DO NOT attempt to fly her under power on one 4-stroke. Cut the good engine to idle, get the gear and flaps up if they are not, and make like a glider.
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  8. #833

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    You have a good point there Bob , makes me think to take the skin off the wings just to inspect all the joints . I am very suspecious sense when i was pulling out the the original landing gear frame work it was very light on glue also other primary joints in the booms .

    Deffinatly something to consider . No one wants a wing folding on them .
    P-38 Lightning Brotherhood #21
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  9. #834

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Hi Guys,
    After I took the covering off of the engine nacells and took a good look at how the glue was set in these...I had a hunch that my wings may follow suit. As you said, the wings look structurally strong enough, if all is attached properly. So all I can do, is get busy and make the glue joints...up to my standards (which is slop the stuff every where-until my hands stick to the structure-wiping off excess as I go). I know I added a few oz. of weight, with all my thinned epoxy in the engine pods, but it was needed, plus made the soft balsa a bit stronger.

    Today, I will start covering my port wing.

    The rained stopped...and so did the winds.

    Soft Landings Always,
    Bobby of Maui
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  10. #835
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    ORIGINAL: Bob Paris

    Hi Guys,
    After I took the covering off of the engine nacells and took a good look at how the glue was set in these...I had a hunch that my wings may follow suit. As you said, the wings look structurally strong enough, if all is attached properly. So all I can do, is get busy and make the glue joints...up to my standards (which is slop the stuff every where-until my hands stick to the structure-wiping off excess as I go). I know I added a few oz. of weight, with all my thinned epoxy in the engine pods, but it was needed, plus made the soft balsa a bit stronger.

    Today, I will start covering my port wing.

    The rained stopped...and so did the winds.

    Soft Landings Always,
    Bobby of Maui
    She will be one tough airframe for sure Bob. The weakest part of the booms is where the tail attaches. Very small back there. I did reinforce this area. Over the years of flying her, I needed to re-glue the vertical stabs a few times as well. Never had a failure in that area though.

    When I rebuild, I just might do away with the open bays all together, for a more scale appearance. I'm considering just coating the whole thing with Liquid Sheet from Wow Planes, and maybe even doing a metal foil finish. If I do, I'll be making those wing fairings I always wanted to do on the original plane. Lots of ideas floating around in my head for the next edition.

    I have almost two complete kits to work with, plus what is left of #1.
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  11. #836

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Hi Guys,
    I finished reworking my wings and both are ready for cover. I then decided to run all my pneumatic and servo wires and get every thing working, before I start covering anything. I would hate to mess up a new Monacote covering job, to go into the wing to fix something after. Best to get everything flight ready, then cover & paint. I did assemble the model again...and boy...did that get the juices pumping to finish this model. I was able to run all the wires I needed to get everything working, but it is a bit of a chore to connect everything and to stuff all the wires into place...so everything works ok. Its a bit of an aquard model to set up...at least the way I am setting up my model. I'm going to need a good stand for it, so it can be assembled with safty at the field.

    I had folks visit from Asia this week...but their gone, so more time to model... : )

    Enclosed are a few pictures.

    Soft Landings Always,
    Bobby of Maui
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  12. #837

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    I got a liitle bit more done today.

    I got all the gear mounted and just about tuned in. I found that the nose strut( Robart 640 105 deg . )needed to be shorten to get the tail clearance needed.
    I ended up shortening it to the shortest i could 7-3/16" from the center of the axle to the end of the strut. When the gear is in the closed position it is a perfect fit.

    Also i am useing the standard tires from Robart on the mains they measure 4" in dia, and 1-1/8" wide . I held my breath for a bit thinking i may have to offset the assembly to get them to fit correctly , but as you can see in the pics they fit like a charm.

    Once i had her on her feet i measured the tail ground clearance and it is a bit on the short side , it measures 2-3/4" and i need 4-3/4" .
    So i am going try and add some material to the end of the struts ( Robart 630 ). This will give me a bit more clearance on the tail , but i need to becareful i don't extend to far because i am getting close to the servo tray.I have to say she looks great on her feet .

    Dan
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  13. #838

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Hi Guys,
    I've finished the starbard wing and now onto the port side. I like the colors, and with the blue sky here...you need invasion stripes, just to see the model in flight. The darker colors seem to work best too, and I'm now tring to find the most colorful rendition of the P-38 to copy. Can you post a couple of pictures of colorful P-38's ?

    The weather has been beautiful here...just windy.

    Soft Landings Always,
    Bobby of Maui
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  14. #839
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90


    ORIGINAL: Bob Paris

    Hi Guys,
    I've finished the starbard wing and now onto the port side. I like the colors, and with the blue sky here...you need invasion stripes, just to see the model in flight. The darker colors seem to work best too, and I'm now tring to find the most colorful rendition of the P-38 to copy. Can you post a couple of pictures of colorful P-38's ?

    The weather has been beautiful here...just windy.

    Soft Landings Always,
    Bobby of Maui
    Looks good Bob. I chose the OD and invasion stripes for the same reason. Problem is, more P-38s were in natural metal on D-Day it would seem.

    Here is a few from my collection.
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    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  15. #840

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    She is coming along great Bob .
    Have you considered Garys 3 piece wing design? For me it is a must .
    I am going withbrushles motors and it will make it much easier to access the bats .

    I am thinking of puting the bats in the booms sense there is not enough room for both bats in the pod .

    I am hoping i can cut thru the wings to make axis to the wide open area in the booms where the fuel tanks should be . I am still waiting on the 3 piece wing mod and other components from Gary , so i don't have a good feel for the direction i can go.

    I have been concentrating on the cowls the past few days . I tried something a bit different . I built up the area with 3/8" thick foam from packaging i had lieing around and glued the layres with gorrila glue . Gary had a great idea with gorrila glue ,, it works great .

    After trimming and rough sanding i applied some Red Devil lightwait spackling .

    Also i got the motor mounts and stand offs machined . I made them all from 6061 aluminum ,, very light and strong material.


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  16. #841

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Hi and Aloha...
    I considered a three piece wing, but the only transpertation I have for the model, is my VW van. There is no way it will fit into the bus with the three piece wing mod...but believe me, I would prefer to have the three piece wing mod. I will have a lot of connections to make to assemble the airframe at the flying field, and its a bit ackwards to put together. Plus, I will need to make a nice stand for it, just to assemble the model. I liked Gary's stand the best so far, but will have rear fuse supports. Please don't ask me how...just a project in the works for now...but it will get done.

    Thanks for all the pictures, and I just may make mine a bit off scale, by picking several different ones...and putting them all together. Kind of a mix and match...number. Time will tell and when I'm close to painting the fuse and nacells, I'll let you know what my choices are.

    I did a little investigating on WWII invasion strips on the P-38...and it seems that they were painted on the aircraft in a rush and all a bit different. I choose to use the larger pattern on my airframe wing, for the smaller size just didn't seem to look as good as the larger version.

    Happy Fourth everyone,
    Bobby of Maui
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    Say what you mean, mean what you say...and !#$& it if you can\'\'t take a joke.

  17. #842
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90


    ORIGINAL: panhandler

    I got a liitle bit more done today.

    I got all the gear mounted and just about tuned in. I found that the nose strut( Robart 640 105 deg . )Β*needed to be shorten to get the tail clearance needed.
    I ended up shortening it to the shortest i couldΒ* 7-3/16'' from the center of the axle to the end of the strut. When the gear is in the closed position it is a perfect fit.

    Also i am useing the standard tires from Robart on the mains they measure 4'' in dia, and 1-1/8'' wide . I held my breath for a bit thinking i may have to offset the assembly to get them to fit correctly , but as you can see in the pics they fit like a charm.

    Once i had her on her feet i measured the tail ground clearance and it is a bit on the short side , it measures 2-3/4'' and i need 4-3/4'' .
    So i am going try and add some material to the end of the struts ( Robart 630 ). This will give me a bit more clearance on the tail , but i need to becareful i don't extend to far because i am getting close to the servo tray.I have to say she looks great on her feet .

    Dan
    Are you getting any of my replies ?

    Gary
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  18. #843

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Are you getting any of my replies ?

    Gary


    Not at all Gary  , niether on the site here or MSN .

    Hope everyone has a safe and fun 4th of July ;}

    Dan
    P-38 Lightning Brotherhood #21
    Custom Pipes rc

  19. #844
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90


    ORIGINAL: panhandler

    Are you getting any of my replies ?

    Gary


    Not at all GaryΒ* , niether on the site here or MSN .

    Hope everyone has a safe and fun 4th of July ;}

    Dan
    Sorry Dan. I'll go back through what I have sent, but I think I have replied to every message.

    BTW, you guys are doing some very nice work. Thanks for sharing.
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  20. #845

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Hi Bud

    I got your replies , i have no idea why the pm's and emails are on the fritz for us . It did this to us before .

    In your message concerning the gear hight , you ask if i used the wedges on the front gear , yes i did and i took along look at your pics to get the depth correct . i feel i have it right because the steering crank is at the same position relitive to the pod bottom . And the mains are set one inch down from the original try stock.

    I am wondering if the main struts are a bit shorter than what you had used . I have them down at the shop at the moment , but i need to get down there this morn to sharpen my mower blades . I'll bring them back and take some measurements and compare notes with what you have .

    Just a note i took a good look at extending the the mains but decided not to because of the method Robart used to make them. Si i can either order another set at the length i need or just make new ones .

    My plan is to get her painted and flight worthy , and get the maiden flight behind me and this winter take all the time i need to detail her .

    And did i mention when she is on her feet and assembled WOW !!!!!! talk about eye candy ;}

    Dan
    Edit : on the mains when the doors are closed my 4" dia. wheels are 1/4" from the bay doors , so iam thinking i have the correct location on the mounts .
    P-38 Lightning Brotherhood #21
    Custom Pipes rc

  21. #846
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    I'll study the sitch a little more and get back with you.
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  22. #847

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Happy 4th all

    Well i found the prob on the gear length.

    It looks like i placed the main gear mount relitive to try stock on the wrong side ( 1" from the bottom of the try stock instead of the top ).
    Now that i have it all glued in very well i don't dare cut it out .

    So back to my choices . Have custom struts made or lengthin these .
    I came up with a little sketch and it just mite work , and of course the wheels will come very close to the servo mounts but that shouldn't be a prob.

    My goof

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    P-38 Lightning Brotherhood #21
    Custom Pipes rc

  23. #848
    ram3500-RCU's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90


    ORIGINAL: panhandler

    Happy 4th all

    Well i found the prob on the gear length.

    It looks like i placed the main gear mount relitive to try stock on the wrong side ( 1'' from the bottom of the try stock instead of the top ).
    Now that i have it all glued in very well i don't dare cut it out .

    So back to my choices . Have custom struts made or lengthin these .
    I came up with a little sketch and it just mite work , and of course the wheels will come very close to the servo mounts but that shouldn't be a prob.

    My goof [img][/img]

    @#$% Happens.
    Why not just add blocks to the plywood mount to make up the difference? That way, the strut stays the same length in the bay.
    Cheers,
    Gary P. / use Steel Powder for ballast not lead. PM me for more information.

  24. #849
    scale only 4 me's Avatar
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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Typical Carpenter's mentality,, Just add wood
    You're so smart,, you figured out how to read this!! Or maybe ya just got lucky??

  25. #850

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    RE: Nitroplanes 90

    Well there i go again ,,, thinking to hard

    Thanks for the sugestion guys .

    I will go through my stash of hard wood and build them up.
    P-38 Lightning Brotherhood #21
    Custom Pipes rc


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