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ASM F-7F Tigercat

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Old 06-10-2011, 06:32 AM
  #401
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

I am using 4 5000mAH 4 cells. Two per motor, connected in series so I think that it would be 8 cell. They are feeding the E-Flite 110. I have an 85 amp ESC with BEC turned off and using a 2400mAH 6VDC battery for receiver and servos. Staggerwing are you going to WATTS Over Owatonna this year. If so I will try to look you up. Lots of electrics and very nice field to visit. It's right up 35W from IA.
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:01 AM
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

Staggerflyer, you're getting some real power from those electrics in that video. I believe you once thought that I might be overpowering my Tigercat with OS 1.20AX 2-strokes glow engines but now it looks like yours is just as overpowered as mine. I'll bet you will agree that it gives you a secure feeling in knowing that you can haul it off the ground into a steep climb without experiencing a stall and a snap. That was an impressive flight.

Did the modifications to the fuselage longerons and former joints hold up well during landings?
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:37 PM
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ORIGINAL: Brad330l



Wow Staggerflyer,, that thing has some power!!

Brad
Thanks, yes it does! That's on 6 cells turning the 14x9x3 props. The nose gear door is still just hanging loose. As you can tell, it doesn't care in flight. Still working on getting the one warped main gear door set right, but because of work and weather, just haven't had time. That was flight #5, I think. Even lost count, lol. Am having trouble figuring out landing in wind. You noticed sudden drop on last foot or so. Every plane flown at our field does that if wind is over 10mph and from the east or south. Something about the bowl effect of the surrounding terrain. That was with full flaps. It didn't hurt the tail after those earlier strengthening repairs, either.

I still need to try the two 16 inch props, which I have cut down to 15 inches. The 14 inchers sound like they are running out pull when they reach over 3/4 throttle and are unloaded. And during climbs they lose power quickly. (You can't see it on camera, but it's obvious live.) I want to try the higher pitches of the APC and 16" MAS props, on both 5 and 6 cells, if the system will pull them without over stressing. The 14" on 6 cells never go near max amps, except on initial throttle up for take-off. As soon as they start moving the plane, amps drop off fast.
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:40 PM
  #404
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

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ORIGINAL: Lebus1

I am using 4 5000mAH 4 cells. Two per motor, connected in series so I think that it would be 8 cell. They are feeding the E-Flite 110. I have an 85 amp ESC with BEC turned off and using a 2400mAH 6VDC battery for receiver and servos. Staggerwing are you going to WATTS Over Owatonna this year. If so I will try to look you up. Lots of electrics and very nice field to visit. It's right up 35W from IA.
Ok, you're using the E-Flite Power 110. 8 cells per will pull it great. I have that one in my P-6E pulling an 18x10x3 on 8 cells. Does excellent. In fact, that will actually have more power than mine. Those EFlite Power motors are strong!! I have 4 different ones.

I wanted to go to WATTS when I saw the ad, but I already have plans to go to Oshkosh this year, which is the same weekend. This will be my first time to Oshkosh, so I'm sticking with it. Maybe next year. I know where Owatonna is, I drive thru it often on my way to/from St Paul when I have to take a load to/from our Des Moines depot, which we are doing this past week and next.
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:55 PM
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ORIGINAL: Rocketman_

Staggerflyer, you're getting some real power from those electrics in that video. I believe you once thought that I might be overpowering my Tigercat with OS 1.20AX 2-strokes glow engines but now it looks like yours is just as overpowered as mine. I'll bet you will agree that it gives you a secure feeling in knowing that you can haul it off the ground into a steep climb without experiencing a stall and a snap. That was an impressive flight.

Did the modifications to the fuselage longerons and former joints hold up well during landings?
Rocketman, thanks. Yes, it has power, but it's much smoother than with nitro. I think your pair of OS 2-strokes will have more gross power, while mine is more net power. If you know what I mean. If you haven't seen it yet, go look at my Staggerwing video, taken about 30 minutes after the TC's. http://youtu.be/s9ltXaR3SrI That one has power!! EFlite Power 160 on 10 cells, 21.25 lbs. Watch that take-off! It is the second time I did it like that. That plane was nearly destroyed because the OS 1.60FS Gemini Flat Twin didn't have the power. I converted it to electric after the crash.

I think the Tigercat would fly well on .90 nitros.

Yes, the mods worked fantastic. The bounce didn't hurt it at all. Before the mods, that would have badly dislocated it, I believe.
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:01 PM
  #406
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

Rocketman, I need vid of this beast!!!!![8D]

You are spot on in regards to the flaps and how to use them. For the first dozen or so flights of mine I used only 10 to 15 degrees of flap and it shortened the takeoff run and provided good additional lift on landings so I could get it nice and slow for beaut nose high touchdowns. Only after these flights did I explore the 45 and above degree flap settings and this is when I had my first engine out. Since then I was using full flap (45 or so) on landings and keeping a higher idle all the way down to the deck. Really nice.

This is great reading guys and keep it going Lebus1 you will love it even with fixed U/C like Rocketman who forgets to retract his because he is having too much fun.

Cheers,

Brad
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Old 06-11-2011, 02:21 PM
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Getting ready to Maiden my Tigercat. Wondering how the stated CG worked out for those already in the air. Thanks Dave...
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Old 06-11-2011, 03:39 PM
  #408
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


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ORIGINAL: Brad330l


As for CoG I did have to add weight (206g) to the internal nose structure where my 6 volt RX battery is as well. I started flight testing with the forward most CoG set (80mm) and have since removed two lots of lead weight (54g to be just behind 85mm and then 25g) to get it back. I dont know the exact measurement now but should check as I want to remove more weight.

Cheers,

Brad
Here you go Dave, with no issues at all.
Good luck with the maiden.

Brad
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Old 06-11-2011, 04:33 PM
  #409
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

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ORIGINAL: europatc74

Getting ready to Maiden my Tigercat. Wondering how the stated CG worked out for those already in the air. Thanks Dave...
My CG is right in the center, and it required absolutely zero trim adjustment. Flies solidly. Good luck with your maiden flight.
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Old 06-13-2011, 07:23 AM
  #410
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


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ORIGINAL: Staggerflyer
If you know what I mean. If you haven't seen it yet, go look at my Staggerwing video, taken about 30 minutes after the TC's. http://youtu.be/s9ltXaR3SrI That one has power!!
Yes Staggerflyer, your staggerwing has about the right amount of power.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Brad330l
... you will love it even with fixed U/C like Rocketman who forgets to retract his because he is having too much fun.
Brad,
That's funny. Yes I was having fun but I was also stressed out worrying that those two new engines might quit on takeoff and concerned about how it would handle on landing. I was so intent on keeping it at a safe altitude and over the correct end of the runway until I couldn't think of much else. I haven't had retracts on a model in many years.

Quote:
ORIGINAL: europatc74

Getting ready to Maiden my Tigercat. Wondering how the stated CG worked out for those already in the air. Thanks Dave...
Europatc74,
My CG is a little over 1/4 inch farther back than the maximum stated in the assembly instructions and the plane is totally stable in flight and on landing approaches. The CG given in the instructions (3-3/8" - 3-1/2" ) has a very narrow range of only 1/8 inch which means that my CG is 200% out of range. Obviously it is not all that critical.
The receiver and battery are in the fuselage underneath the wing and no ballast weights were added anywhere.

Do you have both, the ESM Tigercat and the ASM Tigercat?
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Old 07-05-2011, 03:59 AM
  #411
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

Hi,

i've just started the construction of mine and i wonder what type of servos i will use for this plane ?

Which ones you use ?
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:09 AM
  #412
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ORIGINAL: elojim

Hi,

i've just started the construction of mine and i wonder what type of servos i will use for this plane ?

Which ones you use ?
Ello elojim,

I am using JR 597 MG's on all the control surfaces and JR507's for the throttles.
I had no problems with this set-up. All well strong enough.

au revoir,

Brad
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Old 07-05-2011, 04:12 AM
  #413
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


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ORIGINAL: elojim

Hi,

i've just started the construction of mine and i wonder what type of servos i will use for this plane ?

Which ones you use ?
I have the HiTech 645MGs on all my flying surfaces. Work well with no problems.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:42 AM
  #414
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

Thanks Brad & Staggerflyer,

I know the 645 (used it for my B25) there are very good servo. Il Will use it for the flying surfaces.
I also plan to use two OS 81 four stroke as engine.
Does anyone know what 3 blade is it possible to use with them ?
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:59 PM
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


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ORIGINAL: elojim

Thanks Brad & Staggerflyer,

I know the 645 (used it for my B25) there are very good servo. Il Will use it for the flying surfaces.
I also plan to use two OS 81 four stroke as engine.
Does anyone know what 3 blade is it possible to use with them ?
Don't know what the engine will turn, but 15" on hard surface only is max clearance. Grass requires no more than 14.5" diameter.

When converting 2 blade to 3 blade, subtract 1" diameter, may add 1" pitch, sometimes.
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:29 AM
  #416
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


Quote:
ORIGINAL: elojim

Thanks Brad & Staggerflyer,

I know the 645 (used it for my B25) there are very good servo. Il Will use it for the flying surfaces.
I also plan to use two OS 81 four stroke as engine.
Does anyone know what 3 blade is it possible to use with them ?
With my OS 75AX I used 13x8 three blades but this thing has got 2.4 HP.
I dont think any more than a 12x8 would work with your 81 four banger at 1.3HP.

Good luck with it all,

Brad
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:36 AM
  #417
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

Hello all:
I'm finally ready to maiden this baby (heavy baby). The F7F is ready the runway is ready but weather is not today. Lots of rain. I will try to get some pictures (hopefully not crash remains)of the maiden event. I ran some power tests (static) on the prop/motor/battery setup and this is what I'm getting.
Motor= E-Flite Power 110
ESC= Castle Ice 100
Battery = two 5000mAH connected in series = 32vdc (each motor)
Prop = Three blade MAS 16x10
Full power
Amps = 54
Watts = 1600
hp= 3hp (calculated)
Ran for 6 min until 3.9 volt/cell or 31.20 volts on the meter
I ran another test @ two clicks over 1/2 throttle. Guessing it might be a good cruising setting.
Amps= 25
watts=800
Ran for abouit 12min before reaching 31.20 vdc or 3.9/cell (high limit cutoff).
I think these motors can deliver 2000 watts so I leaving some power on the table. I still need to get the final weight (feels heavy). I don't think this plane will survive anthing but a reasonably good landing. I added three oz of lead to the left wing for balance. The cog is just a bit nose heavy. I'll leave it there for now.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

Lebus1,
You have plenty of power and plenty of headroom there. Did you check temps of motors/ESCs/batteries? That is the second most important thing to watch. If the motor gets to hot, the magnets lose power, the ESC gets hot trying to keep up, the batteries get hot trying to keep up, then it's scale smoke and fire. [X(]

Two tools in my box that I consider most important, watt/power meter, and IR temp gun.

Just asking.

Did you do all the strengthening suggested in the thread? If so, I think you'll be ok. Even if heavy, she flies well. Just don't expect to slow it way down for landing. And don't try full flaps on the early flights. 15-20 degrees max, with 10 degrees on initial setting, if your radio uses three position switch. I've backed my flaps off from the standard 45 degrees full to 30 degrees, and I like the landings much better.

Good luck on the maiden.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:45 PM
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

I have a temp probe that connects to my multimeter but the motors were barely warm to the touch. The ESC's were cool as well so should be good to go on that point. I will need to readjust my flaps though. They are set for full 45%. I'll back them off or not use them. Without flying this thing it's hard to say what would be a proper amount of power on approach should be. I'm guessing 1/4 - 1/3 depending on wind etc. and fly it to the ground.
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:36 PM
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

You should be good to go.

I suggest using at least 10-15 degrees flaps, otherwise you'll set her down at 100mph!!! She does not slow down!! The 10-15 degrees will provide just enough lift to allow her to slow some. That's what I was using on the maiden, and she set down well. It's when I went to the 45 degrees that I was having problems, thinking they provided more lift. They don't, they just slow it down suddenly, once a certain airspeed is reached, (no, I don't know what that speed is, but you can see it as it get's over the threshold,) and it drops suddenly. Since I backed them off a little, the landings are much smoother, as that sudden slowing doesn't occur. Use a long, low approach if your field will allow, dragging her in with power. That's better than a steep approach, which is the only way I can do from the direction in my last video.

Don't worry about a tip stall on landing, this bird never gets that slow on landing. I tried a few stalls from high up, and they were all straight ahead, she never dropped a wingtip, unlike my Staggerwing, which will tip stall suddenly and violently.

Again, good luck!
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:32 AM
  #421
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

Lebus1 that is all very good advice from Staggerflyer but just to throw my 2 cents worth in check the landing in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBthlrQZa94
The wind was not as strong as it sounds and the landing was achieved with no flap at all. This was with a nose heavy CG as well. If you use 10 to 15 flap as suggested and a trickle of power from a bit of height you will be fine. Normal rules apply with this model. It is a real kitty cat if the engines keep turning.

This is why I have Tigercat number two in it's way right now.
Should be here in a couple of days.[8D]

All the best,

Brad
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:18 PM
  #422
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Brad, where did you find another one?? Are you still going to repair ship #1?

I think the slower landings with gas/nitro engines are because of the air brake effect of the props. That's one thing we don't have with electrics. I tried setting brake at lowest setting, but when approach speed is reached, they stop. So I just don't have any brake on them at all, so they keep turning, but there is no resistance, so they don't help it slow down. The 10-15 degrees I have on step one is working great, and I just use that setting with any wind. Nice smooth touchdowns like in your video. Flew it yesterday, 8-12 mph winds, perfect touchdown.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:40 AM
  #423
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Default RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


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ORIGINAL: Staggerflyer

Brad, where did you find another one?? Are you still going to repair ship #1?

I think the slower landings with gas/nitro engines are because of the air brake effect of the props. That's one thing we don't have with electrics. I tried setting brake at lowest setting, but when approach speed is reached, they stop. So I just don't have any brake on them at all, so they keep turning, but there is no resistance, so they don't help it slow down. The 10-15 degrees I have on step one is working great, and I just use that setting with any wind. Nice smooth touchdowns like in your video. Flew it yesterday, 8-12 mph winds, perfect touchdown.
Hey there Staggerflyer, I was lucky enough to check a distributor's web site and they had it available so I got it through a mate who works in a hobby/toy shop in Perth Western Australia.
Got a club discount as well
Now to the prop braking,,, yes I had not thought of that and would love to see some true comparisons (ie me and you flying together) to see the difference. 20 to 30 degrees would put the flap into drag mode I reckon. Still 40 degrees is what I liked as I was able to keep the idle nice and high on my methanol burners.

Mmm,,, rebuild Cat # 1?? dont know on that one. The more I look at it the harder it seems but I will not throw any of it away as I might get bored one day and just do it
I will build the second almost exactly the same as I liked the set up I will however look at two separate channels for throttles and would love air rams for the gear doors. (if I get really carried away)
I am going overseas on Saturday so hope it arrives before then.

Cheers,

Brad
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:37 PM
  #424
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Quote:

Now to the prop braking,,, yes I had not thought of that and would love to see some true comparisons (ie me and you flying together) to see the difference. 20 to 30 degrees would put the flap into drag mode I reckon. Still 40 degrees is what I liked as I was able to keep the idle nice and high on my methanol burners.



Cheers,

Brad
Now that would be fun. My wife would definitely like the trip. Just waiting for her to win the lottery, then we'll be right over.

What would be even more fun is to get all the planes and pilots in this thread together.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:15 AM
  #425
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I'll second that.
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