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  1. #501

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hi Guys. Was talking to a fellow club member today who happens to be the warehouse manager at Model Engines, the Australian Distributors of ASM products. It appears that there a no more Tigercat kits left over here or at the factory and we have seen the end of ASM's foray into similar type aircraft. I don't know the full details but ASM will be concentrating on Electrics in the future. So enjoy your Tigercat will you can.

  2. #502
    Brad330l's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Well I will make the most of it (this time) drob. I think with some careful handling (engine handling) and a bit of re-enforcing here and there it could last for a long time. Small repairs as show are achievable and it flys well even with a bit of extra weight. I love the model for what it is and what it has taught me as my first twin and if it goes in then I will look for something else to progress with.

    Cheers man, thanks for the info and thanks ASM for developing and supplying a great model.

    Brad
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  3. #503
    Staggerflyer's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    I have to second most everything you say, Brad. This is a nice model, flies fantastic, and with some TLC should last a long time. It's my second twin, but the first one was a cobble together model done back in my early years to R/C. It didn't stay in my hanger to long. Gave it away to someone. It did teach me how to fly a twin, and engine out, with success, tho'.

    I am looking at another twin to add to my hanger, but it will take a while to get and build. Looking at the Ziroli D-18 Twin Beech. A complete, precut kit is available, and there are videos of it flying on electric power, performing well, sooo... Would go well with my Staggerwing. Especially in Matt Younkin's scheme. And, I would have to put all the lights on it! The Staggerwing does have the bright RAM Nav lights and 1 strobe. They do show up well at dusk! Needs landing lites.

    Hope to see your new Tigercat on here before long.

  4. #504

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    OK, time to out myself. Despite the known shortcomings of the ASM Tigercat, I could not resist the temptation to buy one of the last remaining kits in Australia at $275. It will be in storage until I have reason to assemble it. I am obviously also rather taken with this aircraft.

    I have only just last weekend had the opportunity to fly the repaired Tigercat. The take off and landing were rather inglorious but the rest of the flight was OK despite the extra weight. I have now fitted Great Planes 24oz tanks which are easily accommodated within the nacelles, replacing the 16oz DuBro's. To overcome the problem of having the tank outlet higher than the carbies ( the Lasers are inverted which puts the carbies at the bottom ) I have also fitted Perry VP-30 Regulating pumps to ensure a constant flow of fuel to the engines. These are activated by crankcase pressure and have been adjusted to give a maximum flow. A 'T' in the fuel line just before the carburetor diverts unused fuel back to the tanks. Because the existing crankcase vent on the Lasers must be open to air, another T is used just before the pump with the 90 degree portion vented back to the atmosphere. They work really well. The bigger tanks will now give me a 10 minute flight with plenty in reserve. I don't know about the rest of you but I find that 10 minutes is about as much fun as I can handle at any one time. I will post photos later.

    I am currently starting to assemble the TopFlight Cessna 310 kit I bought some two years ago. One thing I am considering (will be) doing with the Cessna kit is to fill the wing with foam. Apparently this model also has a 'problem' with the wing construction and filling it with expanding foam strengthens it no end. The following link points to a relevant post in the Cessna thread.

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_50...10/key_/tm.htm
    Photos in post 2727

    I am exploring the possibility of also doing this with the Tigercat (#3) wing center section and would be interested in getting your collective feedback. I have plenty of time to think about this. I am hoping to be flying Tigercat #2 for a while yet.
    David

  5. #505

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    WOW, this thread has a LOT of good info. I've been slowly putting my ASM Tigercat together for several months and corrosponding with Stagger over at RCG. Between Stagger and the good folks here There's plenty of info to chew on. Thanks to all here who have taken the time to post. Greatly appreciated! I'm on the home streach in my build. Going electric. All motors, ESCs, servos are installed. Tail planes are hinged, attached and connected to servos. Landing gear is installed but not plumbed. I did attach the pull-pull cables to the nose wheel but sure don't like all that sloppy cable flapping around when the wheel is retracted and haven't got a handle on how to keep them from snagging on the axel when lowering the nose gear. I believe I'll go for the seperate nose gear steering servo and eliminate some of the cable. I am a bit dissapointed with all of the QC problems that ASM has bestowed upon us. Some of the parts are chincy and the manual is very general. I'm hoping that by going electric, (minimal vibration), and non agressive flying will give her a long life. Of course, the all important smooth landings will be a major factor in her longevity, but that one is up to me. Here are a couple of pics. I opted to go a slightly different direction than Stagger and cut hatches in the nacells. The dummy radial is from Park Flyer Plastics. With the info from this thread I should be able to complete the main gear doors, gear plumbing get her in the air. Thanks again for the great discussion.
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  6. #506

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hi RickAvery. There have been a few suggestions on this thread as to how to tame the steering cables. If I may 'push my own barrow' I would suggest you use plastic tubes as outlined in my Post #426 Page #18. I have been using this method on a few models with great success. I like the look of those dummy radials. Any more details?
    David
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  7. #507

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Thanks drob,
    That's a nice idea for the cables. I'll be all over that! The radials aren't exactly stock. There were dimples in the engine case and the rocker arm perches just sitting there begging for some push-rod tubes. So I cut round toothpicks to length, painted them and glued them in place. Might not be an option with a fuelie and the increased vibration. Heck, they might fall off with the electric also??? They'll be on for the pre-maiden photo opp. Going to pull the retracts out and loctite all of the screws and such. Does anyone have any info on the max pressure the air tank is good for without exploding it in my face? And, what pressures you are running vs. the number of retract cycles you're getting? Thanks again for all the great info.

    Rick

  8. #508
    Staggerflyer's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Rick,

    Glad to see you made it over here. Welcome.

    If you can do the cable in the tube thing, I would recommend it. I control mine with the small springs in the parts pack, hooked on the former at the back of the wheel well. A good pair of long needle nose pliers are required to install.

    You shouldn't have any problem with the pushrod tubes on your dummy radials if they are glued in. I haven't lost any on any of mine.

    Yes, definitely loctite the screws on the retracts. And check them often!!! Also, while you have them out, lube ALL moving parts with some lite oil. It will make things much smoother and will prevent the nose gear not locking down as often happens when they are dry.

    I'm running 100 PSI on mine. I have two tanks and get 6-7 solid cycles.

    Keep us up to date on her. Enjoy.

    Don

  9. #509

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hi Stagger,
    Lots of good info here, thanks for the link. So you say you have two tanks, does that mean you alternate between them or you have two tanks on the plane? Also, at 100psi, do you have any gear slamming problems mentioned earlier in this thread where they actuate to quickly? Some have mentioned a valve that I assume can be micro adjusted to slow the introduction of air into the cylinders. I'm kind of feeling a mixed bag of goods nearing the completion of this build. I'm excited about getting her into the air, but feel a bit worried about the structural issues that have become apparent. I mean, I like to fly in a scale like manner, fluid manuvers, shallow take off angles... but loops, rolls, inverted flight, are manuvers this plane can perform in real life and would appear that this model will not stand up to them for very long without major structural modification. Bummer. Such a beautiful and , in real life, high performance airplane religated to flying upright laps. Oh well, I'm sure she's quite majestic in the air reguardless of how she's being flown. Still have some hours of work to do. Thanks again & Blue skies!

    Rick

  10. #510

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


    ORIGINAL: drob

    ORIGINAL: Staggerflyer

    I think you'll be fine with ALL the fuselage fixes. Those seem to be the most common. I think the wing center section break was a rare one, as no one else has had the problem, yet.

    I think you'll be happy with the OSs.

    We got one radar speed check on my electric powered TCat. Got a reading of 86mph. Problem with getting a reading on it, is that all the radar ''sees'' is the props, and if the plane is not pointed directly at the gun, there is no return for the gun to read.

    I need to get my Eagle Tree MPH sensor mounted, so I can get a true reading.
    Staggerflyer, that's an interesting result you got with the speed gun. You have previously stated that you get 9921rpm from your Rimfires with the 14x9x3 props. Carousel43 has suggested that speed is a direct relationship between propeller pitch and rpm. Using the formula ((Pitch * RPM) * minutes per hour) / inches per mile) or ((9*9921)*60)/63360) I get 84.55mph! Pretty close to your speed gun reading. I have wondered how much the efficiency of propellers should be factored into the calculated speed. Perhaps Carousel43 might give us his thoughts on this.

    As for the mods to the airframe ausfester, I would join Staggerflyer in recommending that you at least do ALL the fuselage strengthening described in previous posts. If you choose to also add a dihedral brace, you will find it easier if you do it through the bottom of the wing using a bit of key-hole surgery. You would only need to remove the covering in the immediate area. Take care to not interfere with the carbon fiber tube at the back of the spar.

    Adding a glass fiber bandage around the join between the two wing halves need only necessitate removal of the covering immediately affected. No need to do the whole wing as I did. I am certainly no expert where glass fibre is concerned. It's not that difficult really. For your information the main spar is 100mm or 4 inches back from the leading edge. I used a 4 inch wide bandage in an attempt to keep it inside the fuselage. Hope this helps.
    Sorry guys been busy and missed this one. Anyway the pitch speed calculated by me and others is the maximum theoretical speed obtainable assuming perfect efficiency and no drag in perfect leval flight in perfect air when the planets are in alignment, hell has frozen over and politicians are not all crooks. So, in the real world the numbers dont always work. In practice i have found that they are usually pretty close, but measuring speed accurately is always hard. it should also be noted that even twoidentical props of the same brand can be upto 500rpm different in performance. I have had APC, Graupner and Master all behave this way as they bend and change with time and use. Even the flashing on the back of a master prop lost me 300rpm, 10 seconds with some sand paper had my 300 revs back! In any case, the numbers calculated are great as a guide but dont panic if you cant match them in the real world.

  11. #511

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Does anyone have any pics of the fuz strengthening that they have done?
    Thanks guys

  12. #512

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


    ORIGINAL: ausfester

    Does anyone have any pics of the fuz strengthening that they have done?
    Thanks guys
    Mine are to be found in Post 426 Page 18. There are others earlier than mine.

    David

  13. #513

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hey Guys, here is something to drool over. I wish!

    http://www.vogelsangaeroscale.com/sc...stigercat.html

    The color scheme is notable.

  14. #514
    Staggerflyer's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


    ORIGINAL: RickAvery

    Hi Stagger,
    Lots of good info here, thanks for the link. So you say you have two tanks, does that mean you alternate between them or you have two tanks on the plane? Also, at 100psi, do you have any gear slamming problems mentioned earlier in this thread where they actuate to quickly? Some have mentioned a valve that I assume can be micro adjusted to slow the introduction of air into the cylinders. I'm kind of feeling a mixed bag of goods nearing the completion of this build. I'm excited about getting her into the air, but feel a bit worried about the structural issues that have become apparent. I mean, I like to fly in a scale like manner, fluid manuvers, shallow take off angles... but loops, rolls, inverted flight, are manuvers this plane can perform in real life and would appear that this model will not stand up to them for very long without major structural modification. Bummer. Such a beautiful and , in real life, high performance airplane religated to flying upright laps. Oh well, I'm sure she's quite majestic in the air reguardless of how she's being flown. Still have some hours of work to do. Thanks again & Blue skies!

    Rick
    hi Rick,
    Two air tanks, the one that comes with the retracts, and a Robart of same size, one above the wing and one below, "T" eed together. Robart control valve has adjustable screws to control air release, to eliminate gear "slamming." Or, you could use wheel collars on exhaust lines back to standard valve. Either way, you adjust them till gear is slowed down just enough to eliminate slamming. If to slow, they won't lock. So expect some minor slamming. You will have to experiment.

    The fixes/strengthening listed in all the different places on this thread result in a plenty strong fuse, so scale like flying, including the type of flying done by Clay Lacy and Steve hinton, with full warbird style manuevers are perfectly safe. Just don't try to pull sudden, hi-G loops and turns, and NO SNAPS OR SPINS!!!!! I do the full set, including outside loops, but they are large and open. And sometimes the landings would scare the guys on the carrier, but she is holding together, so far. I think I have a dozen flights on her. Unfortunately, don't get out as often as I'd like, and she normally only gets one flight per outting. (Hey, I usually take 5-6 birds with me, all same size range, all electric.) Just take your time and feel her out well. If everything checks out after first flight, go with what you are comfortable doing. She is majestic and agile in the air. And FAST!

  15. #515
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hi to all,
    Pleased to see this forum is still going strong and has gained some more F7F pilots. So sorry to read of your loss Brad but sure pleased you haven’t given up. Hope the new build is going well?
    I’ve been out of the loop for most of this seasons flying with mine. I wanted to do a fare few modifications on it to get it the plane I wanted it to be but got involved in a couple of other building projects. Finally I got round to making the changes – most of which have been covered in this thread…
    1) Jacked up the U/C to enable me to fit 15x8 two blade props and to give it a slightly nose up attitude on the ground. Did this by fitting extra hardwood bearers to the front and fitting stronger springs to the mains as it was sagging down at the rear.
    2) Did the strengthening exercise to the fuse in the wing trailing edge area and fixed the cracks as described in this thread.
    3) Drilled out the mains and fitted 5mm axles.
    4) Most importantly, I always had an uneasy feeling of how wobbly the tail plane and fin assembly felt. It never felt sturdy enough and was too easy to twist the tail up and down – twisting the rear of the fuse! Eventually I plucked up the courage and cut a section from the bottom of the fuselage beneath the tail so I could see inside. Noticed that the two balsa and two carbon rod stringers had separated from the fuselage skin all along the length of the rear fuse…good old few spots of hot glue was all that had been holding them!
    Managed to reattach them by running cyno down their length. Finally for good measure I glassed all the inside of the fuse around the tail plane and rudder post area. Refitted the panel I’d removed and the result was worth the effort…felt twice as strong as before. Move the lipos forward to offest the slight increase in tail weight.
    5) Finally I set the ailerons on separate channels so that I could dial in differential (60% up and 40% down).

    Finally got her back into the air this weekend and what a difference!! With C of G set at 90mm and the slightly taller nose wheel she rotated effortlessly. Seemed to excelerate better with the larger 2 blade props. After a few circuits of trimming she was flying beautifully and definitely felt much more β€˜locked in’ than before…very stable and very smooth. Landing was effortless with full flaps set – she came in like on rails and touched down gently on the mains. After taxiing back and cutting the engines I couldn’t take the grin off my face.
    I wanted to get her straight back in the air again and take some video and pictures but to my dismay I noticed something hanging off the bottom of the tail plane …. The blinking covering and ripped off and was hanging in the breeze – didn’t even notice it whilst flying!

    So that was it for the day but I came home happy as larry and looking forward to flying her again. I want to fit a front brake at some stage as it’s difficult to taxi on tarmac, even at tickover she’s off at jogging pace!
    Now I've got ailerons on seperate servos I might also experiment with dialing in a couple of degrees of flapperon coupled with the main flaps.
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  16. #516

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    if you are adding flapperon be very careful as lowering the ailerons will increase the relative angle of attack at the tips and neutralise any washout in the wing. this could make the model morevounerable to tip stalling. I test flew a small (65inch)mustang for a friend and he had mixed some flaperon with his flaps as the model was a touch heavy. The model was almost unflyable with the flaps lowered. Removing the mix made it easy to land in the normal warbird way and removed the tendancy to tip stall.

  17. #517
    Staggerflyer's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    I agree with carosel43. Flapperon is not recommended. In most cases, 40-45 degrees of flaps will be more than enough. I've backed my max flaps off to around 35 degrees, because at 45 degrees it was falling out of sky before it got to landing/touchdown speed/altitude, causing big bouncing on touchdown. Reducing total flaps allows me to fly it all the way down for smooth touchdowns. The speed at touchdown hasn't noticeably changed. In fact, my smoothest touchdowns seem to be on first notch of flaps, set at about 18 degrees.

  18. #518
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hi Tony, great to hear from you again. Well done with your mods and fixes and being so wrapped about flying your cat. Mine going in was a blow but yes you live and learn. I learnt that on-board glows are a cheap insurance. Have not started putting the new one together yet as trying to finish off another couple of projects but it is in line.

    Mate, as for flaperons, I actually kick mine up (not on this model,,, a midget Mustang) a good few degrees and this dumps a heap of lift to the point that the nose comes up and slows it down nicely to land. Also doing this increases the washout so to speak and it never drops a wing,,, ever it just sinks. This I can control easily with both power and attitude.
    Gliders use this method too,,, it is called 'Crow'. Good luck with it all.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  19. #519

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Brad you are correct, adding a small amount of up on both ailerons reduces the relative angle of attack at the tips further and makes them even less likely to stall. they also dump lift but actually reduce drag (the air above the wing being lower pressure the drag is reduced).

    For flaps i have also found that massive angles cause more trouble than they are worth, i reduced the angle on my ESM La7 from 75 or so to about 60. It didnt make alot ofdifference but made the modela bit more predictable. I know that 60' is alot of flap but themodel comes in so nicely like that and it looks great on approach. I tend to start witha scale type angle (within reason) and then adjust it after flying the model.Also as i have my flaps on a slider i can get rid of some very quickly if the model gets fed up with it.

    Either way, i think the issue of flapperons has been nicely settled!

  20. #520
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hi guys
    Much to my dismay the weather here last weekend was far to windy to warrant flying..so spent it with the missis and the dog (muchos brownie points gained!) This weekend however is looking pretty good here in Blighty so I’m hoping to get her flying again and some video taken.

    Thanks for the feedback regarding flapperons chaps. I know what you’re saying guys, I wouldn’t normally recommend anybody to use flapperons – especially on a warbird! My primary local flying site however, is a smallish grass patch on a slight slope with ploughed ground all round, so over running is an undercarriage wrecker. The prominent wind direction in the summer is SW which means landing the down hill line. I wanted to experiment with crows or slight down flapperon for best short landing capability. High lift high drag is the obvious direction to go in but I appreciate the risks involved with dropping the ailerons. I would only drop the flaps a couple of degrees, enough slightly increase lift and drag.
    Fitting the front brake may negate the need for slower landing speeds though eh!

    Gonna try and make best use of this weekend as winter is approaching rapidly so must make the most of it.

  21. #521
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Oops ... what I meant to say was ... I'd only drop the AILERONS a couple of degrees.... the flaps would be max flap at about 45 degrees.

  22. #522

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    I to am looking to get some flying done this weekend, i re-engined my ESM/YT La7 with a laser 300v and its just to much fun now! although it will bite you now its so overpowered, the torque roll is pretty pronounced. As for the cat can you get more flap angle? also, while i am sure you have tried, you couldpractice flying as slow as you can in the landing confuguration. do it with some height though please!I have done this with a fewmodels and it helps to build confidence in really slowing it down on finalas you know where the limits are. Also if you want to add brakes you could try a small piece of fuel tubing(about 4mm long) squashed between thewheel and the retaining collet, andput them on the main gear, we all know what happens on a bike when you brake with the front wheel only. i hope this is of use

  23. #523
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    After reading the entire thread I think I will go with Saito 100s. Less vibration than the OS 75 or 81 and that lovely sound. Seems from everyone else that power should be about right.

    Will absolutely do the strengthening on the fuse.

    Thanks for all the inputs on the thread.
    Cheers,
    Craig

  24. #524
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Welcome Craig, once again a different power plant for this machine. Cool.

    I was actually in demolition mode earlier on tonight, pulling my crashed one to bits to save the hardware and bits and pieces. First time I have looked at it for weeks. Funny that you should post on the same day.
    My new one is waiting it's turn for getting put together.

    Cheers and good luck with it. Glad you made some use of the thread.

    Brad

    On ASM Tigercat # 2
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  25. #525

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Victoria, AUSTRALIA
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hey guys,

    Good news I maidened my tiger at today.
    Thanks for everyone's contributions especially brads.
    I did all the strengthing mods, but some custom alloy wheels and brakes and I suspect she's around 10kg.
    A fellow club member has a bigger scratchbuilt tiger cat and his feels a couple kgs lighter than mine.
    Powered her with two OS 95v`s lots of power. Pretty gnarly conditions and I'm sick of waiting so with a 30kph / 45kph gust I went for it.

    First flight went as expected bumpy and seemed slow but that's due to the strong winds, got it trimmed out and under control for 5 mins or so.
    When I powered off 1 meter before touch town boy did she drop, much worse than my tornado jet.
    Suspension took the brunt of it so no damage. Second flight went well but winds were getting worse so I called for landing, flipped gear switch and nothing.
    Tried several times and still nothing. Left it in the down possi and contemplated This being its last flight and that I better enjoy it.
    Did a couple circuits and out of no where they popped down. The relief was unimaginable, landed without incident.

    Moral of the story, Ive never had anything come undone before.. but this big girl has had several things vibrate loose.
    I was using a robart airvalve so Make sure you loc-tight the air valve ring screw so it doesn't come loose.
    Just had luck on my side today.

    Time to finish the doors and cowels now that she's flown. I'll post pics onece finished



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