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  1. #526
    Staggerflyer's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    ausfester,

    Congratulations on the maiden. I've found my Kitty doesn't seem to let the wind bother her, much, either. But that big tail means no crosswind!!!

    Yes, she does drop suddenly when slowing. I found that on every one of my sudden drops, it was with full flaps. They don't have the slow speed lift required for the weight. If they were available on the outside of the nacelles like the fullsize, I think they would be much more effective. I've since backed off the amount of flap at full, to around 35 degrees or so, and have been much smoother in my landings.

    I would go over the gear mounting rails with a microscope after a hard bounce. The wood is so poor, as is the glue. I found a couple cracked rails last inspection. They are going to be part of my winter maintainance/repair projects when I get around to starting.

    Very lucky on the retract problem. Scary. I think, if your field is smooth enough, (and grass) that she would survive a belly landing, if it's not dropped in, with minimal damage. The engine nacelles would be the skid points.

    Good luck in the future. Many happy flights to you.

    Don

  2. #527
    Brad330l's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hey Aus I didnt read about you maiden until you came over to the '109' thread and now you mention that you have lost your Cat so I am very sorry for your loss mate. What on earth happened??? Structural failure you say? Please give some details. I am continuing pulling my old one apart and it still hurts a little that it is in so many pieces.

    Chin up Cobba,

    Brad
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  3. #528
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hi all,

    For those interested, I made a sliding glass roof, here's the video : http://youtu.be/QXbg3raLbHQ

    elojim

  4. #529
    Brad330l's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Total cool factor there elojim.

    Great work, far more than I would want to do.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  5. #530
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


    ORIGINAL: Brad330l

    silver.kiwi the treddle plates you describe were my first attempt.
    The following pictures show the latest and better set up with a much smaller plate with bigger hole in the underside of the wing and adjustable door actuating rods.
    The rear internal 'stiffner' ( about 1/4'' x 1/4'') was dremeled in half width ways with the hole size you see here and could easily be beefed up again by glueing a doubler behind it. I have not done this and have had no problems (so far).
    This set up works very well now with the doors staying wide open until the gear is retracted. If you do not want to cut the holes in the bottom of the wing you will need to reduce the diameter of you main wheels.

    Cheers,

    Brad

    Hi Brad, I have had my F7F since the second shipment and have yet to fly it :-( I have been getting back to this bird to ready it for a flight but I wanted doors on it. I have been from front to back of this forum and have seen many different ways to mount the gear doors. Yours looks very intriguing. Can you tell me how you connected them up?

    Cheers.
    Chasman

  6. #531
    Brad330l's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


    ORIGINAL: chasrb


    ORIGINAL: Brad330l

    silver.kiwi the treddle plates you describe were my first attempt.
    The following pictures show the latest and better set up with a much smaller plate with bigger hole in the underside of the wing and adjustable door actuating rods.
    The rear internal 'stiffner' ( about 1/4'' x 1/4'') was dremeled in half width ways with the hole size you see here and could easily be beefed up again by glueing a doubler behind it. I have not done this and have had no problems (so far).
    This set up works very well now with the doors staying wide open until the gear is retracted. If you do not want to cut the holes in the bottom of the wing you will need to reduce the diameter of you main wheels.

    Cheers,

    Brad

    Hi Brad, I have had my F7F since the second shipment and have yet to fly it :-( I have been getting back to this bird to ready it for a flight but I wanted doors on it. I have been from front to back of this forum and have seen many different ways to mount the gear doors. Yours looks very intriguing. Can you tell me how you connected them up?

    Cheers.
    Hi mate, when you say connected up do you mean how they are actuated? Well if this is what you mean then the treddle plate is set up so when the wheel is retracted it hits the plate that is connected to the doors and they close up. When the gear is lowered the doors open with gravity only. I did have springs to keep them open but they made it too hard on the system to close up properly. Hope this helps, looks like you have seen post number 149, and it really is that simple. If you need to know any more just give me a yell. Earlier on I described how I mounted the hinges a bit closer to overcome the curve of the doors and sort the hinge line. Apart from that it is as per the instructions.

    I have made to commitment to drive 1800 Km's to my capital city to a warbird fly-in so will be putting my new Cat together as of tomorrow, If I do anything differently than the first I will be sure to post guys.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  7. #532
    Staggerflyer's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Mine is put away for the winter, but just as an aside to the gear doors actuation... Do it exactly as Brad's photos show for the main gear doors. The wheels close them, the WIND (airflow over/thru the nacelles,) is what opens them when they are released/pushed open by the wheels going down. Do use Brad's adjustable linkage, as you will find they need quite a bit of tinkering to get right.

    As for the nose gear door, I ended up removing mine. It kept breaking off the linkage brackets where the "wire" thingy attaches to the door. In the air the wind keeps it closed, but when handling the airframe when dissassembled for transportation, it keeps falling down in the way. You cannot see it when flying, anyway.

    Good luck.

    And good luck to you, also, Brad.

  8. #533

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Hi Guys. Still here and currently (slowly) putting together Tigercat #3. #2 went in because of an undetected probable engine outage and a turn procedure into the dead engine. The aircraft was some distance from me at the time, around 250 meters, which made it difficult to see what the problem was.

    Regarding the gear doors, it has been my experience (2 Tigercats, 2 ASM Invaders) that the opening of the main doors is initiated by the descending wheel and then by the inherent spring action of the wire The force of air when flying certainly would help. I could hold the models upside down (on the ground) and the doors would still spring open. Not much has to be removed from the door edges to overcome the curvature between the intended hinge points of the doors and is hardly noticeable.

    Back to Tigercat #3. All of the fuselage strengthening done for #2 and has been incorporated. A full depth dihedral brace has been added at the front of the existing 'main spar' and the center glassed with 100mm cloth just to be sure. The photo shows the incision made in the undersurface to archive this,

    The stabilizer mounting has been considerably stiffened by installing a balsa in-fill between the longerons and a fillet between the longerons and the outer plastic skin. This fillet was achieved by smoothing in bicarbonate of soda (Baking Powder) and then soaking it with CA. This results in a rock hard fillet. The stab was then slid into place and tilted against the plastic so that epoxy could be 'poured' into the resulting gap between the balsa fillet and the stab lower surface. Once the epoxy had set the top of the stab was then fixed to the plastic skin before the fin was installed. Tip: If you haven't used the bi-carb/CA mixture before keep your head away when it 'goes off'! I invested in a Stanley Fat Max cross hair laser level which in invaluable in getting things squared up.

    A more ambitious modification I am currently working on is re-hinging and re-shaping the flaps so that a gap of around 5mm is left when they are extended. In addition the inner 160mm portion of the ailerons has been converted to flaps which replicates the set-up of the full size aircraft (and the ESM model). This should make landings more comfortable. It involves a lot of work and hopefully it will be worth the effort!

    With thanks to Rocketman's lead, landing gear intended for the ESM Tigercat has been installed. This gives me an acceptable ground clearance for the 16x8x2 props I will be using and appears to be more substantial and smoother in operation than the ASM gear. In the process, all of the gear bearers were replaced with decent and lighter Aussie hardwood. Yes Staggerflyer, the original bearers are made from rubbish wood and were not that difficult to remove once cut in half. The replacements were made wider, filling in the gap left by the originals.

    By the way Staggerflyer, I did try the 14x9x3 Master Airscrew props used on your electrics but found that while the max revs achieved were very close to your electrics there was not the same pull that the 16x8x2 APC props delivered. Co-incidentally, it was that flight that proved to be the demise of #2.

    Finally, on a lighter note, I have found out more about the manufacture of the Tigercat. It transpires, I am told, that Mr ASM is a wealthy Chinese business man who has an interest in model aircraft. He has set up his own factory with all the necessary laser cutting and plastic moulding equipment and has a private sealed airstrip near the Hong Kong Chinese border. He has become bored with the Tigercat style of model and is venturing into large electric ducted fan models. This is not, however his prime source of income. No, his day job is the manufacture of swim suits! When one looks a the structure of a Bikini the construction of his model aircraft becomes more explainable.
    David
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  9. #534
    Brad330l's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Wow mate,,, you are rocking hard!![8D] Good work. I am threatening to get mine started as I have finished working on the '109' and almost done with the Spitfire. Must get the Cat put together and test flown/certified before last week of March. Six weeks would be real good. I'm going to a show.
    I will be doing the fuselage strengthening and probably a wrap or two of 2oz glass around the center of the wing and that will be it. Everything else will be as per #1 although I do like what you did with mounting the tail plane.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  10. #535
    Staggerflyer's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    David,
    Sorry to hear your Tiger went in. But it looks like it may have been good in the end.

    Really like what you are doing. Bet that's going to be a beautiful bird when done. I'm seeing lots of good ideas there. Excellent pics, also.

    I will be plenty busy doing some of those mods myself, especially the landing gear block replacements.

    I also have to draw a set of working wing plans for my Top Flight Staggerwing. It went in because the ELECTRIC motor shut off at the wrong time! Luckily, only the wings were damaged, (destroyed!) Sudden, and as yet, unexplained battery voltage DROP, (NOT loss!) from 40volts to under 3 volts, until just before impact during glide back to runway. Didn't make the runway, which resulted in the crash. (The onboard electronic log showed the voltage drop/return.)

    My next build is planned to be the Ziroli D-18/C-45 Twin Beech. Will be a while just getting everything bought.

    Good luck with your new one, David. And interesting story about mister ASM.

  11. #536

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Thanks guys. Just the encouragement needed to push on. Bad luck with the your plane Staggerflyer. Guess we are none of us immune from lack of motive power. Best of luck with your build Brad. Don't rush it mate.
    David

  12. #537

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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Such a shame to see that beautiful staggerwing damaged. If misery loves company, my Turbocat was significantly damaged when 1 wheel fell off on takeoff. You guys who say ASM is prone to excessive damage are right, but also those who appreciate the lightness and low cost. I see one guy criticized my Turbocat's "modification" to turbine (actually electric) power and streamlined nacelles. Anybody who builds a Tigercat with big, radial engine nacelles can be proud of accuracy to historic, production models. But there is nothing wrong with true scale to the original design inline or turbine engines. Imagine a P-51 with a radial engine.
    The history of aviation is all about modification. Otherwise we'd be stuck with biplanes, with wing warping instead of ailerons, with propellers instead of jets, etc.

    Now that the Turbocat is repaired and flying again, it still has a strange deficiency. Has anyone else notice twitchiness or Unstable sensitivity? Seems like I have to focus-fly this airplane every second or it goes toward earth. I am at a loss to explain this given its ample empennage and dihedral.

  13. #538
    Staggerflyer's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Softshell

    I would suggest checking the longeronbrackets behind the wing in the fuselage. Sounds like they may have broken loose. Mine was very twitchy when they came loose. Check back in this thread, starting at post #383. The repairs are well shown by a couple different owners. When these break, the entire rear of the fuselage can twist. Don't forget to check the skin where it comes together under the fuse right behind the wing.

    If you haven't done any of the suggested mods in this thread, It is highly recommended that you do all of them, from the start. The only one that seems to be a one of a kind is the wing center section coming undone because the piece of strengthening carbon fibre rod wasn't glued properly. All the rest have been found to be commonly needed on all airframes.

    While looking for the repairs, I saw the photos of your Turbocat mods, again. Looks very nice.

  14. #539
    Brad330l's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Well I finally made a start on Cat #2. I noticed straight away while sorting a few things out that a lot more glue has been used in the fuselage to attach all the formers etc to the shell. This is very pleasing to see. I did add some extra thick CA to a couple of problem areas and will add some strengtheners as well but will not go the fully blown mods on the fuse. While putting the outer wing panels together I concluded that the covering job was not as 'trim' as my first one but after a but of heat from the iron and sock it looks quite OK. I am really happy to have started and it's almost like therapy from loosing the first. Another good thing is I can use bits and pieces off the old one (linkages etc) so save a bit of time and save the other stuff in the spares box.
    Promise not to rush it guys.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  15. #540
    Brad330l's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    I mounted my engine failure engine on the test stand today and would you beleive it???? It started first flick! It ran beautifully after tuning and with an APC 14x8 prop I got 10200 RPM (backed off a bit from max) and with the MAS 3 blade I got 9800.
    So when I pranged my Cat I stated that I didnt follow my own run-up procedure and so paid the price. I hung around too long on the ground and the engines got hot after their run up and a bit of a a long taxi to the start of my takeoff run. If I remember rightly I was using 13x8 two blades trying to get some big RPM's, this with probably being a bit lean and the heat did me in. Any way it runs fine so I am happy. I will also be running glow drivers this time round so will surely wear these engines out before I have another failure right?? The other engine will be run soon.
    Tonight I deviated from the instructions a bit and fitted and glued the horizontal stab in before the fin. This allowed me to glue from the back after measuring, marking,striping and taping in place. I was first able to drip in a couple of drops of CA and then after double checking I went to work with epoxy and a long bent bit of wire. Tomorrow I'll glue the outer fillets down with epoxy. Just over an hours work to do that. Cool,, must stay focused and bite off a little bit each night.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  16. #541
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Got my gear doors hinged and can use the old treadle plates out of the old one so am cruz'n along.
    Sooooo much easier the second time around.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  17. #542
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Tonight it was the wing's turn for a bit of work.
    The old wing was still useful in the way of being a 'Guinea Pig' and being cut up to check what was inside. A couple of measurements were taken and transferred over to the new one for cutting to expose the inside where the new dihedral brace is to be fitted. After some cutting and a couple of measurements it was time to cut the center rib that does indeed go right through the spar (as in pictures) and then make the new brace. I always make these type of things just a touch bigger than required and carefully sand down to a good fit. I hate it when things I make are too small.[:'(]
    In the pictures you can see the first fit where the new brace only goes half way down into the wing. Next was some 30 minute epoxy on mating surfaces and some clamps and that is it. About forty minutes work here while drinking a cup of tea. The same skin balsa I removed will be replaced with a nice patch of pro film (i think it is) over the whole lot as well.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  18. #543
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Got the Cat on it's feet today. It made me think of how excited I was with the first one at this stage.
    It just hold a presence I reckon.
    The nacelles are totally done with even the throttles all hooked up and very close in actuation on the one channel. Actually I do have to run the wires to the glow plug for the on board glow but this is no biggy.
    The gear and doors work very well.
    Attaching the nacelles to the wing was a pain again with having to slot a couple of holes to get the 4mm hex bolts to be able to line up. It was better this time round though. Also the main wing to fuselage alignment is about 2mm off to one side so I will slot the holes there as well and also add two dowels so it stays where it should be and not be able to move while flying.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  19. #544
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Well I am cruz'n along with the Cat. Got the tail all hinged (and working) as well as the flaps hinged, just ailerons to do tomorrow. Got the nose wheel gear door all sorted and adjusted with a new improved actuation rod set up.
    Next is to sort the on-board glow system of which I have two battery packs coming, mount the retract valve and servo and RX switch. It is all so easy the second time around and I am making sure I do everything properly. It all worked so good on Cat #1 (except my run-up procedure) so I am doing the same on this one, just refining it a bit. And strengthening it a bit. I even salvaged my cowl flaps I made out of aluminium and they are primed and ready for a coat of white.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  20. #545
    Staggerflyer's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Looking real good there, Brad. I'm sure you'll enjoy this one much more, being more confident in it's construction, and knowing the necessary mods were done up front.

  21. #546
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


    ORIGINAL: Staggerflyer

    Looking real good there, Brad. I'm sure you'll enjoy this one much more, being more confident in it's construction, and knowing the necessary mods were done up front.
    Yeah mate I am happy to have done some mods and strengthening. Luckily with the first one I was blissfully unaware of it's short comings and just flew it scale like and landed it softly.
    I might not cringe so much coming out of a loop or Cuban Eight.

    Cheers,

    Brad
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  22. #547
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Just looking in on you fellow Tigercat fanciers. It's great to see the progress that Brad has made on his second Tigercat. What I really like is the way he added that dihedral brace. That's a great piece of work. As I said some time ago, I'm a firm believer in dihedral braces even if the wing center section of a model is fiberglass wrapped.
    Hey Brad, how far back from the wing leading edge is the rear of the spar?

    I haven't put any flying time on my Tigercat since June of 2011 when it was flown at a fly-in and suffered broken longerons on a blind landing. The landing approach was made from right to left but my view of the touch down was obscured by another flier and his spotter who were standing immediately to my left and a little forward of me. It was my fault for not touching down before the plane got to where I was standing.

    I have added birch plywood doublers that extend from the wing mount to the aft end of the longerons. With that additional lumber back there I've had to move the battery from behind the C.G. to the nose cone and include 5.4 oz of lead in there with it. Man! I dislike lead.
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    http://www.nrcmc.org/

  23. #548
    Brad330l's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


    ORIGINAL: Rocketman_


    Hey Brad, how far back from the wing leading edge is the rear of the spar?

    Pretty much bang on 100mm Rocketman.
    Happy you like the brace.

    Cheers,

    Brad
    Visit pilbaraaeromodellers.com
    Spitfire Brotherhood # 5

  24. #549

    Join Date
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat

    Use a123 instead ;-))

  25. #550
    Brad330l's Avatar
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    RE: ASM F-7F Tigercat


    ORIGINAL: ramboman

    Use a123 instead ;-))
    Yes they are a fair bit heavier than Nicads.[sm=thumbs_up.gif]

    Cheers,

    Brad
    Visit pilbaraaeromodellers.com
    Spitfire Brotherhood # 5


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