Twin Lizzie Build
#176
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RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Denis,
What are you wiring a 747 ? I see on-board glow drivers. Then again you did have servo(s) in the tail. Yeh, looks like a few wire extensions.
Looking forward to a completed airframe. Take some static pictures outside in the sun to capture the true colors. Pilots ? Dummy radials ?
Hay, don't listen to me or you will never get it done. LOL.
I think those removable nacelles were a great idea.
Get her fly'in.
What are you wiring a 747 ? I see on-board glow drivers. Then again you did have servo(s) in the tail. Yeh, looks like a few wire extensions.
Looking forward to a completed airframe. Take some static pictures outside in the sun to capture the true colors. Pilots ? Dummy radials ?
Hay, don't listen to me or you will never get it done. LOL.
I think those removable nacelles were a great idea.
Get her fly'in.
#177
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
If you think about it: most of the wiring is all in the wing
2 Aileron Extensions Ch 1 & 6 for differential mixing
1 Flap Extension (utilizing a Y plug)
2 Throttle Extensions
positive and Negative on board glow for right engine
positive only for left engine (it uses the Neg from the right engine)
So thats ummm lets see ahhh 8 leads coming just out of the wing
Fuse has three Rudder Elevator and Tailwheel servo
the trick is to get all that spaghetti sorted out and tidied up.
2 Aileron Extensions Ch 1 & 6 for differential mixing
1 Flap Extension (utilizing a Y plug)
2 Throttle Extensions
positive and Negative on board glow for right engine
positive only for left engine (it uses the Neg from the right engine)
So thats ummm lets see ahhh 8 leads coming just out of the wing
Fuse has three Rudder Elevator and Tailwheel servo
the trick is to get all that spaghetti sorted out and tidied up.
#178
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RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Yes sir, that looks like 8 servos. How is the weight coming ? Did the plans or build article give an estimated RTF weight ?
How is she balancing ? Need any lead in the nose ?
#179
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Projected weight says 7-8 lbs but that was electric
I'll have a weight and balance by Saturday. The lizzie has about 8" of empty nose space, so far my receiver and glow battery are in the nose
I'll post the results
#180
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
A little setback for those following (which is probably just Stan) My on board glow system failed to work. I wont bore you with details. All my aircraft have on board glow systems. I've used many (Sullivan:Maxx/MPI/Electro Dynamics) recently I have converted just about everything i have to a new system from Switch/Glow
http://www.switchglo.com/
I love these units as they are very simple. They run off the receiver battery (4.8 or 6V) although you can program them to your throttle setting, they also can be switched on and off from a TX. switch. When they are on they beep very loudly: if there's a problem they dont beep. I decided to go with a different brand because with Switch/Glow on a twin you have to use 2 of them.
I went with a Horizon Hobby product that I have never tried: not only did the plugs not glow (I verified a good current flow)but made the throttle servos glitch badly. (I will call horizon next week)
The good news I used 2 Switch/Glow, one in each Nacelle, using very long extensions and they work perfect. Using these also eliminated 4 extra wires. I certainly recommend the Switch/Glow
http://www.switchglo.com/
I love these units as they are very simple. They run off the receiver battery (4.8 or 6V) although you can program them to your throttle setting, they also can be switched on and off from a TX. switch. When they are on they beep very loudly: if there's a problem they dont beep. I decided to go with a different brand because with Switch/Glow on a twin you have to use 2 of them.
I went with a Horizon Hobby product that I have never tried: not only did the plugs not glow (I verified a good current flow)but made the throttle servos glitch badly. (I will call horizon next week)
The good news I used 2 Switch/Glow, one in each Nacelle, using very long extensions and they work perfect. Using these also eliminated 4 extra wires. I certainly recommend the Switch/Glow
#181
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Off the subject you all might get a kick out of this. Friday at the flying field a fellow crashed his "Twinstar" full throttle straight down from about 100 feet. Its give the term "Crash and Burn" a little more reality.
#182
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RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Crash and Burn,
Denis, What was he using for power glow or electric ? Does he know what caused the fire ? He hit pretty hard to make two holes in the
tarmac.
On board glow drivers,
Isn't the beeping from those Switch/Glow units annoying ? A little pricey also. About half the cost of a motor each. I guess needed in multi-engined applications
if you want to be sure the engines keep running.
Denis, What was he using for power glow or electric ? Does he know what caused the fire ? He hit pretty hard to make two holes in the
tarmac.
On board glow drivers,
Isn't the beeping from those Switch/Glow units annoying ? A little pricey also. About half the cost of a motor each. I guess needed in multi-engined applications
if you want to be sure the engines keep running.
#183
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Stan
Not sure of the engine size but they are 2 stroke glow. The fire resulted from the Rx battery being crushed by the impact which shorted and then caused the fuel to ignite.
As for the beeping you can program the unit to shut off in 12 seconds or by the switch in the Tx. The beeping lets you know that you have good glow Also (a big also) our field is out in the desert where downed airplanes can sometime be impossible to find (there are many still out there) that beep can help you locate you airplane if it goes down, and yeah there not cheap, all of them go for around 65 to 75 bucks. With two of the i have 120 bucks invested in glow.
Not sure of the engine size but they are 2 stroke glow. The fire resulted from the Rx battery being crushed by the impact which shorted and then caused the fuel to ignite.
As for the beeping you can program the unit to shut off in 12 seconds or by the switch in the Tx. The beeping lets you know that you have good glow Also (a big also) our field is out in the desert where downed airplanes can sometime be impossible to find (there are many still out there) that beep can help you locate you airplane if it goes down, and yeah there not cheap, all of them go for around 65 to 75 bucks. With two of the i have 120 bucks invested in glow.
#184
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Preliminary Photos: No Pilot and wires still need some housekeeping.
Engines run up and taxi test. Not real pleased with the Magnums, I understand they are a cheap copy of O.S. They would not idle low enough inverved, unless glow was left on, I really cant justify 2 new O.S. at 300.00 a pop so for now take off and landing will be with on board glow on. Came in at 12.5 lbs A little heavier that I wanted
So looks like Monday will be the test flight
Engines run up and taxi test. Not real pleased with the Magnums, I understand they are a cheap copy of O.S. They would not idle low enough inverved, unless glow was left on, I really cant justify 2 new O.S. at 300.00 a pop so for now take off and landing will be with on board glow on. Came in at 12.5 lbs A little heavier that I wanted
So looks like Monday will be the test flight
#185
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RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Denis,
The Lizzie looks Awesome. Just beautiful. Thanks for the pictures. I wanted to see a side shot showing the door you added, maybe in the next pictures.
Sorry to hear about the idle problems. May be I am miss-understanding the use of on board glow drivers ( have not used them), but I thought they were to be used through out
the flight and at idle during landing in case of a go-around situation and especially in a multi-engined aircraft to keep all the engines running. Otherwise, why have them at all ?
How was the break-in time ? Can you run hotter plugs ?
Lots of Luck with the maiden flight.
The Lizzie looks Awesome. Just beautiful. Thanks for the pictures. I wanted to see a side shot showing the door you added, maybe in the next pictures.
They would not idle low enough inverted, unless glow was left on, I really cant justify 2 new O.S. at 300.00 a pop so for now take off and landing will be with on board glow on.
Sorry to hear about the idle problems. May be I am miss-understanding the use of on board glow drivers ( have not used them), but I thought they were to be used through out
the flight and at idle during landing in case of a go-around situation and especially in a multi-engined aircraft to keep all the engines running. Otherwise, why have them at all ?
How was the break-in time ? Can you run hotter plugs ?
Lots of Luck with the maiden flight.
#186
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Stan
The "On Board Glow" is really just a tool so you dont have to lug around and battery/clips or a rechargeable glow driver. You simply flip a switch and start your engine. Most on board unity are programed to glow within the first 1/4 of your throttle. Anything higher that than and it shuts off. It will give you a more reliable idle. However you really dont want it on all the time as this will drain you battery (you shouldn't have to have it on all the time. I utilize the idle glow on my 3 cylinder Saito, and Twin Cylinder O.S. 160. but all of my single cylinders its just to start then its off The units I posted about (Switch/Glow) do NOT have a separate battery but used the Rx battery. After spending about 1/2 hour yesterday tuning the engines (with the glow on most of that time) the voltage dropped to about 4 volts which made the glow units not work. This should not really be a problem in the future as the engines are now tuned, but certainly something I will monitor.
Actually thinking about it it might be a good thing as I will keep the glow on until I reach a safe altitude then turn it off. I wont turn it back on untill landing. Probably a good safeguard for a "engine out" on takeoff.
Denis
The "On Board Glow" is really just a tool so you dont have to lug around and battery/clips or a rechargeable glow driver. You simply flip a switch and start your engine. Most on board unity are programed to glow within the first 1/4 of your throttle. Anything higher that than and it shuts off. It will give you a more reliable idle. However you really dont want it on all the time as this will drain you battery (you shouldn't have to have it on all the time. I utilize the idle glow on my 3 cylinder Saito, and Twin Cylinder O.S. 160. but all of my single cylinders its just to start then its off The units I posted about (Switch/Glow) do NOT have a separate battery but used the Rx battery. After spending about 1/2 hour yesterday tuning the engines (with the glow on most of that time) the voltage dropped to about 4 volts which made the glow units not work. This should not really be a problem in the future as the engines are now tuned, but certainly something I will monitor.
Actually thinking about it it might be a good thing as I will keep the glow on until I reach a safe altitude then turn it off. I wont turn it back on untill landing. Probably a good safeguard for a "engine out" on takeoff.
Denis
#187
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RE: Twin Lizzie Build
It's been awhile since I've visited here and you've made a very nice Twin Lizzie as the photos look great! Hope the maiden flight is fun for you.
Soft landings,
Joe
Soft landings,
Joe
#188
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Well first flight went well. Very nice in the air, plenty of power with the 52s. Ground handling is wicked. Although take off drifted to the left (which it should due to tork) rudder didn't seem too efective
Or due to nerves I didn't correct enough. Landing was 3 point and smooth however a roll out of about 20 feet and it did a 90 deg right turn and ground looped. Second flight resulted in 10-15 roll and immediate 90 deg turn to the right and a ground loop, way too fast of a turn for any rudder to be efective.
Gonna track and measure the main gear to see if its way off, might try some slight toe in.
Denis
sorry forgot to film the test flight but here's the second attempt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdbXrgNs0W8
Or due to nerves I didn't correct enough. Landing was 3 point and smooth however a roll out of about 20 feet and it did a 90 deg right turn and ground looped. Second flight resulted in 10-15 roll and immediate 90 deg turn to the right and a ground loop, way too fast of a turn for any rudder to be efective.
Gonna track and measure the main gear to see if its way off, might try some slight toe in.
Denis
sorry forgot to film the test flight but here's the second attempt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdbXrgNs0W8
#189
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RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Denis,
YEA! Way to go Denis. Congrats. I see your point about ground looping on your second flight attempt. Would it be better not to try to correct with the tail wheel
(ala fixed TW position) and let the tail come up so you only correct with the rudders ? I can't see from your pictures but from what I have read the center of the main
wheels should be at the leading edge of the wing for tail-dragers. May want to check that out also.
Great job. Those engines sure had some power.
YEA! Way to go Denis. Congrats. I see your point about ground looping on your second flight attempt. Would it be better not to try to correct with the tail wheel
(ala fixed TW position) and let the tail come up so you only correct with the rudders ? I can't see from your pictures but from what I have read the center of the main
wheels should be at the leading edge of the wing for tail-dragers. May want to check that out also.
Great job. Those engines sure had some power.
#190
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
O.K. Gang second flight the other day. Gear re done to include about 2 deg of toe in. 1st attempt at take off still swing to the right HOWEVER !! here's a note for those who fly this. That dihedral at the wing tip !!!! well there was about a 4 Kt 90 deg crosswind very slight BUT the Lizzie rolled about 5 feet before that 4 Kt wind picked up that right wing . So 2nd attempt very slow throttle advance: slight left rudder (anticipating that right swing) and right aileron down and it tracked straight
NOTE: this plane will easily lift off at half throttle, Lotta lift in that "Selig" airfoil. so no need to cobb those throttles.
LANDING: tried flaps this time 1 notch about 15 deg required 5 clicks of down elevator. (this will be mixed out through the Tx) very stable approach, a slight bounce on touchdown (still have to learn where is plane wants to stall at) and again that swerve to the right. Now with 15deg of flaps it touched down sooooo slow that it didnt even have enough speed to make a full ground loop.
So like take off next flight I will anticipate with a smidge of left rudder at touchdown. I would have flow again but I did discover a weak spot (see photos) the airfoil alum tubing need to be beefed up. Instead of telescoping it bent. I have a fix for this that I will post this weekend
Denis
NOTE: this plane will easily lift off at half throttle, Lotta lift in that "Selig" airfoil. so no need to cobb those throttles.
LANDING: tried flaps this time 1 notch about 15 deg required 5 clicks of down elevator. (this will be mixed out through the Tx) very stable approach, a slight bounce on touchdown (still have to learn where is plane wants to stall at) and again that swerve to the right. Now with 15deg of flaps it touched down sooooo slow that it didnt even have enough speed to make a full ground loop.
So like take off next flight I will anticipate with a smidge of left rudder at touchdown. I would have flow again but I did discover a weak spot (see photos) the airfoil alum tubing need to be beefed up. Instead of telescoping it bent. I have a fix for this that I will post this weekend
Denis
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RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Denis,
Glad to see a successful flight. The pictures are great and you did add a pilot. I like the head-on landing shots. A little more tuning and she should fly like a Senior Falcon.
BTW, one article mentioned tail wheel aircraft are easier to control flying off grass as apposed to a hard surface. You may want to try this on another flight.
Good job.
Glad to see a successful flight. The pictures are great and you did add a pilot. I like the head-on landing shots. A little more tuning and she should fly like a Senior Falcon.
BTW, one article mentioned tail wheel aircraft are easier to control flying off grass as apposed to a hard surface. You may want to try this on another flight.
Good job.
#193
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Here's the problem with grass, It will make you lazy !!!! grass is much easier, for full size as well as the wheels will "slide" on the grass instead of like hard surface which will grip the wheel.
I flew off grass for a few years prior to the field I am at know, It took me several days to get my "Taildragger" chops back up to speed
Denis
dirt as allows the wheels to slide
Denis
I flew off grass for a few years prior to the field I am at know, It took me several days to get my "Taildragger" chops back up to speed
Denis
dirt as allows the wheels to slide
Denis
#194
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Here's a pic of the new gear. Same as the old just went to a larger size
another test flight. First takeoff run did a 90 deg to the left Errr this is swinging so quickly rudder wont catch it. Second attempt 90 deg to the right grrrr. So here's what I did, popped 15 deg of flaps eased in throttle, tail came up and it just popped in the air, This will probably be the best bet for this squirl. Landing full flaps roll out was no problem. Few more tweeks and that will be it.
another test flight. First takeoff run did a 90 deg to the left Errr this is swinging so quickly rudder wont catch it. Second attempt 90 deg to the right grrrr. So here's what I did, popped 15 deg of flaps eased in throttle, tail came up and it just popped in the air, This will probably be the best bet for this squirl. Landing full flaps roll out was no problem. Few more tweeks and that will be it.
#195
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RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Denis,
New gear looks a lot stronger. Glad you are working out the takeoff and landing techniques. I have learned a lot from your build both in construction and in flying twin aircraft.
Thanks for the ride. Looking forward to more of your projects.
The Best
New gear looks a lot stronger. Glad you are working out the takeoff and landing techniques. I have learned a lot from your build both in construction and in flying twin aircraft.
Thanks for the ride. Looking forward to more of your projects.
The Best
#196
RE: Twin Lizzie Build
O.K. gang
Last post here to wrap up this build thread. Got all the trim issues ironed out. New gear works well, no bending issues. As this airplane is so "short coupled" it has ground handling issues. So my result is as follows.
Take off 1 notch of flaps @ 15 deg. Slow advance of throttle (never any need to slam throttles) plane will track well enough to correct with rudder, and will elevate in about 20 feet.
Normal flight is 1/2 to 1/3 throttle. Any more and it just fly's too fast doesn't look right
Landing is full flaps about 25 deg. I have about 5 clicks of DOWN elevator mixed in to maintain a lever descent. Throttle full back at about 5 feet, three point landing. You may get a slight swing either left or right but it will be moving Soooo sloooow that its easily corrected with tailwheel (ALWAYS keep that stick full back unit its done moving)
So there ya go. Anyone that builds this plane feel free to contact me concerning any issues. Although I am closing out this thread I will at some point get a full video that I will post
So on to other projects. Thanks to all for your help, ideas, humor. Next build Fairchild 24R already started here
http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/...607&PN=1&TPN=1
Denis
Last minute pics of wiring
Last post here to wrap up this build thread. Got all the trim issues ironed out. New gear works well, no bending issues. As this airplane is so "short coupled" it has ground handling issues. So my result is as follows.
Take off 1 notch of flaps @ 15 deg. Slow advance of throttle (never any need to slam throttles) plane will track well enough to correct with rudder, and will elevate in about 20 feet.
Normal flight is 1/2 to 1/3 throttle. Any more and it just fly's too fast doesn't look right
Landing is full flaps about 25 deg. I have about 5 clicks of DOWN elevator mixed in to maintain a lever descent. Throttle full back at about 5 feet, three point landing. You may get a slight swing either left or right but it will be moving Soooo sloooow that its easily corrected with tailwheel (ALWAYS keep that stick full back unit its done moving)
So there ya go. Anyone that builds this plane feel free to contact me concerning any issues. Although I am closing out this thread I will at some point get a full video that I will post
So on to other projects. Thanks to all for your help, ideas, humor. Next build Fairchild 24R already started here
http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/...607&PN=1&TPN=1
Denis
Last minute pics of wiring
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RE: Twin Lizzie Build
Someone brought one of these into the shop to consign. I had no idea what it was so I invoked the-all mighty "GOOGLE" and found this thread. Luckily it has "TWIN LIZZIE" in big letters down each side so I could google appropriately. Whoever built this one seems to have done a really nice job. May keep it for myself! I'll need to inspect it closer to determine what the motors are.
Just posting this link to share the find. Not pimping it to sell here in this thread.
http://boise.craigslist.org/tag/2673485225.html
Just posting this link to share the find. Not pimping it to sell here in this thread.
http://boise.craigslist.org/tag/2673485225.html
#200
unfortunately the day of the "kit" is long gone in favor of ARFs cant even remember the last time a new kit was introduced, your just gonna have to dig out your pile O wood and start
cutting
Denis
cutting
Denis