VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

Well, she finally arrived, along with the retracts (retracts are bought separately).
Since I did the VQ P-38 construction article, Twinman suggested I do the build article.
The good news is that he promised me twice the salary that I got on doing the P-38 article!
I just got a new laptop so hopefully all goes well and everything is loaded as planned.

She arrived in two boxes (one on Monday and the other today).
After Monday, I had visions of a lost box, never to be seen again, but it finally arrived.

They came with no additional packing on the outside but everything is well packed and secure inside and all arrived in good order.
The smaller box has only the center fuse and canopies.
The other box has the rest of the goodies.

The retracts were ordered from Mike (VQ) and are Spring Air.
The retracts do not come with struts but the struts are included in the P-61 ARF.

(limit of 4 pictures: hmmm, next)

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

next four pictures:

The first package has the manual and decals (really stick ons).

The next package has the struts and guns.
The struts look very sturdy.

Next are the two booms.
Some people call it shelf paper but I like it: lots of detail and it doesn't wrinkle in the sun.
Real nice gear doors (form fitting: just like a good female sweater!).

Last is the inside top view.

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

First picture:
This picture shows the gear doors.

Second picture:
Next out of the box are the cowls.
Nice heavy duty fiberglass.
As you can see, the OS FX .91's won't have to be sticking out to kill the scale look.

Third picture:
Here are the cowls and nose cover along with my engines.
I'm using J-tec's JT-903MX where the exhaust slants back 45 degree's so little will be showing on the inverted engine.
Those small fuel tanks have to go: they'll only give me about 5 minutes on those .91's!

Fourth picture:
The business end of the boom: plenty sturdy (don't want that in a woman but good in a plane).

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

Sam:

Sorry, sir, with nacelles that size you have no excuse for not using Saito FA-325R engines in the plane.

Or you can just send all the bits to me and I'll put Saitos in it.

Haw.

Bill.

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

First picture:
Next out of the box are the rudders(hinges included).
Very light.
Construction of the rudders are all wood (the entire ARF is all wood).
Don't know what those white things are (drop tanks?) but there are about 6 of them(hmmm; room for my fuel!).

Second picture:
All the hardware came out next:
rods,
engine mounts.
1" aluminum tubes for the wings.
more machine guns(!!!)
nuts and bolts packages.
real nice gear door hinges.
gear wires (pitch!).
No wheels but I believe it's 3" for the nose and 3.5" for the mains.

Third picture:
Next was the center wing(top view).
With flaps (as does the outer wings).
No weathering like on the P-38.

Fourth picture:
Center wing (bottom view).
2 access hatches for the flaps.

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

First picture:
Next is the horizontal stab.
very light(built up). pre-hinged.

Second picture:
The outer wings are last.
The bottom one is the top view(you can see the spoilers: cool).
also flaps and ailerons.
The top one shows the bottom view.

That's it for tonight.
It may be a little while(week or so) for more updates.
I'm building 6 book cases for Christmas presents (yep, I'm a little late but almost done).

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

Sam,

Great pics! I am maybe one step ahead of you in analyzing all the parts and pieces, and already put together a list of stuff to complete my plane. I am just now beginning to place orders but curious to see what others are doing before commiting to some things.

I ordered the low profile servos today required for the ailerons/spoilers. I was surprised to see that the aileron and spoiler in each wing operate together via a bell-crank and a spring arrangement. Quite ingenious.

Yes the little tanks have got to go. So far the biggest I can find that look that they will fit are only 17.5 oz but that's better than the 13 oz I measured for the supplied tanks. I'm still waiting for someone to let us know of a 20 oz tank that will fit! I'm still thinking Saito 120's but haven't ordered them yet.

I couldn't reach Spring-Air today, maybe they are out for the holidays. I never thought to ask MIke if he already had retracts on-hand. I'll give him a call tomorrow.

I'm also looking at upgrading from my JR 8103 to a 9303. This plane is going to eat channels, and the built-in twin throttle controls would be very nice to have!

My plane is an ARC so I have a bunch of covering and detail work to do. Also the nacelles and some of the plastic trim pieces are black, but other parts are white and will need to be painted. The first step for me will be to "pre-assemble" the plane to decide exactly what I want to do with covering. My plane will be black, it will have invasion stripes, and it will "match up" with one of the existing WWII birds. Just about all of the photos I have found are black/white so it is impossible to tell what colors were actually used for the trim on individual planes. But in my mind that just means "poetic license" applies!

Walt

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

All Right!!

Feels like old times again, with samparfitt leadin' the way!

I am ashamed to confess I is weak and my black ARF is on the way.

No one in their right mind should own two Black Widows. Aha! There's my loophole!

Couple of questions for y'all lucky enough to have opened yer boxes and seen the plane:

1) I wasn't all that fond of Spring-Air gear on the 38 (grass field). Any specific ideas on appropriate Robart tri-set that would be a little tougher? What diameter are the struts that come with the kit?

2) Will these beautiful, homeless Saito 100's I've got be enough for this plane?

I need some major motivation to start building again. Whaddaya say we have a race to the first one in the air (and safely back again)? Not that I would have a prayer with my job, my latitude and the fact mine's not here yet.

mt

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

I've been doing some research on retracts for mine but it looks like Robart has some that will work. #639RS for the nose gear, It's 100 degree instead of the non scale Spring Air 90 degree and will accept the 7/16" nose gear stut. #630RS for the mains. They will accept the 1/2" main gear struts. I haven't checked on availability yet but they are pretty standard parts so that shouldn't be a problem. As for engines, I really want to do gas engines and it looks like First Place Engines 1.3's are the best choice so far. They are about 6 oz. heavier than an O.S. 120, Saito 120/150 or Magnum 120. I know glow engines would be lighter but I just HATE cleaning off the slime from the exhaust...

AL.

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

P-61 references:
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ssd/tstm/html/gallery.htm
http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/quarter2/p-61_euro.htm
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/p61.htm

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

I have a book, Osprey Combat Aircraft #8 titled P-61 Black Widow Units of World War 2. It has color plates showing paint schemes of various fighter squadrons (yes it shows black with invasion stripes). It also has close ups of nose art. It has many stories from pilots who flew these birds and a lot of specifications on the bird. Quite interesting reading. I think I got it through Zenith Books.

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

Sameul great looking bird. What kind of price are they asking for the p-61? Thanks Rich

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

Rich,
see http://www.vqmodelaircraft.com
for price and availability.
The VQ site also has Twinman's early coverage of the prototype (on rcwarbirds site).

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

FYI,
Please feel free to add your pictures and ideas, changes, etc to this thread.
Many will be interested in seeing what engines, retracts, props, etc are being used.
(there's more than one way to skin a P-61!)
Sam

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

kram,
The Spring-Air 400 retracts are much beefier than the standards. They are set up for 1/2" struts, and have larger pieces. I have a set in a 22# P-38 and it does not wobble at all.
http://www.retracts.com/400.htm

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

Thanks TLH101.

I'll re-consider.

Are Saito 100's strong enough for this plane?


mt

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

[:'(] Just spoke with LHS and found out the Robart retracts are (true to form) NOT IN STOCK. They expect about a month delay... Time to check elsewhere. You here so much bad stuff about Robart- there is a whole thread on them on this site- I wonder if they will ever get their act together.

AL.

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

I lied: put a coat of varnish on the book cases out in the shop so I've got time to work on the P-61.

This is the box of 28 or so servos ready for my P-61 (never have too many servos).
I'm using Hitec HS475HB. They're 76 oz torque for 6 volts.
More than enough for flying this plane and when at least 13 servos are needed, at 18 bucks apiece,
saves a lot of money over more expensive servos (I'm using a JR 8103).
For the low profiles needed for the spoiler/aileron combo, I'm using Hitec HS-77 (also 76 oz at 6 volts).

I'm starting with the outer wings instead of the center wing that the manual starts with,
because it has the spoiler and I had to see how that works first.

Second picture:
The servo cover farthest away from the wing tip is for the outer wing flap.
I mark each cover as I take it off with an arrow showing which part is pointing to the front and also its purpose.
(screws are already holding the covers on: another nice touch).
The servo mounts are already glued in.
Looks like they did that because they are at an oblique angle to the cover
and they didn't want us to hose it up.

Third picture:
As you can see, the servo fits the mount perfectly.
The mount seems very secure but I'm going to put some epoxy on the mount anyway (just to make sure!).
I use a Dremel tool to drill the holes for mounting the servo,
I temporarily put a thin piece of the servo box flap between the servo and cover while drilling the holes.
This keeps any contact with the plane so less vibration is transmitted to the servo and possible feedback to the receiver.

Fourth picture:
The pin hinges are glued into the flap and glued into a block of balsa that slides into a square hole in the wing.
Never seen this before but very ingenious.

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

First picture:
The center cover is for the combo spoiler/aileron servo.
This mounts in the wing and not on the cover.
Here I'm using HS-77 (ordered two of them and should be arriving in a few days).
Another nice touch: spoiler and aileron from one servo.
Watch when drilling the holes that you don't go through the top of the wing.
The only safe way from keeping from doing this is to put a small piece of metal between the mount and top of the wing.

Second picture:
Here's a picture of the spoiler in the up position (cool stuff).

Third picture:
Next is gluing the flap to the wing.
This is how I did it to insure that all is aligned and moves freely(you don't want to glue these incorrectly).
I used masking tape to tape the flap so it is aligned with the top of the wing.
I like to stick the tape to my leg first to reduce it's adhesive qualities.
Use good 3-M tape and not stuff that's been in the garage all summer.

Fourth picture:
This side view shows a nice smooth transition from the wing to the flap.
There should be a very fine line between the top of the back of the wing and the top of the flap.
The profile picture shows that VQ did their homework: the back of the wing isn't flat like on most ARF wings.

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

samparfitt.......says...
"The good news is that he promised me twice the salary that I got on doing the P-38 article! "
I think those fumes from the paint are getting to your mind!!!
Kram,
The prototype flew with ST 90's and VERY good authority,,,,including the heart stopping engine out. I assume Saito 100's would be fine.
Bill, if you wish to donate those radials to the project........uh,,,,,,,,one of us " Might be able to accomadate you". Samparfitt or Kram,,what do you think of Bill's offer?
Twinman.
Seems I will have to get to work on mine, but will be almost 80 here in Houston tomorrow...Build or fly?......See you at the field!!!

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

Now that the top is aligned, put straight pins into those blocks of balsa from the bottom of the wing to temporarily
hold those hinges at the correct location.
Now remove the tape and insure there is free movement down for the flaps.

The second picture shows the pins in the bottom of the wing.

The third picture shows the tape removed.
If all moves freely, you can tape the flap back up and wick thin CA between the balsa blocks and wing.
This should insure you have no turbulence from large cracks between the wing and flap nor any binding.

NOTE: I tried to move the spoiler up but it wouldn't work.
Found out that I must have put too much CA on the flap hinge and it glued the spoiler to the wing.
Easy fix: a razor blade cut it loose (only about 1/4" long).
Put a piece of wax paper between the spoiler and wing or put it in the up position when CA'ing the flap hinges.

So far, I'm impressed with the design work of this ARF: Some people may think the price is high
but all those fine details added thus far makes this a cheap plane.
(HMMMM, for me to design and build spoilers: that will take me about 20,000 hours, not counting calling on
higher powers to stricken it down!)
(that's it for tonight).

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

just checking at : VQ modelaircraft ;
VQ have special pricing retract for p61

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

Is that high of torque at 6 volt really necessary for this plane? My impression was that standard servos were all that was required. I was planning to use Futaba Standard BB (S3004 44 oz torque @ 4.8 volt 57 @ 6volt). Perhaps high torque on the aileron/spoiler might be considered, but I think standard for the rest will be OK. Your thoughts.

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

dad47: I generally use servos with @75 oz for big warbirds. No real science there, I just don't feel comfortable with the 40-50 oz "standards" when I get over .46-size planes. The only plane I ever lost to flutter (insufficient servo strength) was a giant Extra, but the whole experience made me paranoid. I'm too lazy and old-fashioned to run 4.8 and 6 volt systems in the same plane, so I generally buy servos that can haul the mail at 4.8v

Twinman/BillW: I think Bill's offer is fully indicative of what a generous and overall fine human being he is. I think it would be only fair if he's gonna supply one of us with radials, he should supply us all. We would be happy to name the Black Widow Squadron after him if he did so. Imagine the sound of those going by in formation!!

Whaddaya think about G-26's? Might help extend the run time on the small fuel tanks.

Alvin: I've got a set of those Robarts you mentioned ( I got them for my second VQ-38). They're nice. I think they're probably worth waiting a month for. I know how you feel about often not being able to get what you want from Robart right away, but in their defense, I have found that they do eventually deliver the quality product.

mt

RE: VQ P-61 CONTRUCTION
 

samparfitt:

As before, you are doing an AWESOME job of a construction thread. Your photograghy is better than before.

I'm tempted to ask everybody to quit inserting posts so we can use your sequence as an online construction manual.

mt