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-   -   Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/twin-multi-engine-rc-aircraft-192/3378862-rich-uravitch-bronco-versus-dan-palmer-bronco.html)

4unlimited 09-21-2005 06:14 AM

Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
I am about to order plans for a large scale Bronco OV-10, so the airplane-choise has already been made.

Short list:
Rich Uravitch "Big" Bronco OV-10
Dan Palmer Bronco OV-10

Knowing that both planes are "similar" sized, both are scale enough for me, for both "plastic parts" are available and that engine-wise also some similarity exits, makes me convinced to build this bird as my multiple-engines plane.

But is out there someone who can speak from his own experience, which of the two plans/planes would be the best choice.

I will use the plane for it's maneuverability to perform some aerobatic "abuse" and for just "dogging-around".
So which one will be best suited for this FUN purpose?

Hope to receive some real-life opinions.

Regards,
Rick

gsmith6879 09-21-2005 08:16 AM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
1 Attachment(s)
Rick,

I have built and am currently flying the Uravitch 81" 1/6 scale Bronco. Another club member just finished his and they both fly great. We put GMS .76 two stroke engines on them with full time onboard glow. Both of ours weigh 21 pounds dry. They fly like an heavy trainer. Uravitch's design is "stand way off scale" but produces a nice looking twin. There are some very good threads on the is model here in the twin section. You can buy the plastic parts from Urivitch or you can get the same parts in fiberglass from Fiberglass Specialties(http://www.fiberglassspecialtiesinc.com/).

Because the Uravitch Bronco flew so well, I decided to build the Palmer 96" 1/5 scale Bronco. Palmer's bronco is very close to the full scale outline. Palmer claims that the airplane will weigh about 20 pounds but I defy anyone to build it at that weight. Mine will weigh about 30-35 pounds. I will power it with a pair of MVVS 26IFS gas engines I got from PE Reivers (preivers@home.nl). Fiberglass parts are available from Stans Fibertech (http://www.stansfibertech.com/). Also Palmer leaves a lot of the needed details to finish the airplane to your imagination or building skills. I guess what I am trying to say is that I have built a lot of airplanes from plans and this Palmer plan is the worst I have ever tried to build. You must have a lot of building experience to complete this Bronco. I have been communication with a fellow modeler here in the States that has built the Palmer Bronco and has flown the airplane. His report is that although it took forever to complete the model, it flew great. No bad habits. The Palmer Bronco will take considerably longer to build that the Uravitch Bronco.

I hope this has helped. I have included some photos of the two Uravitch Broncos and progress photos of my Palmer Bronco.

Good Luck.

Gaines

4unlimited 09-21-2005 08:55 AM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
Gaines,

THANKS
This is the information I hope to find.
Just a honest observation, taken form own experience.
Very useful!

As mentioned it is not my gaol to build the biggest Bronco or the most accurate detailed scale version. I want -as with every plane- to have a nice build period, great looking (stand-off) scale plane, with pleasing flight characteristics (#1Demand)

So, much appreciate your input.

Rick

R/C Lee 09-22-2005 05:31 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
Rick, for what it's worth, I built the smaller Uravitch OV-10. It was an easy build and if you need replacement plastic parts (in case something happens ;)), Uravitch has them. As Gaines says, it is stand way off scale, but it sure looks and sounds nice in the air. If you build the Uravitch version, be sure to check the sizes of the formers shown on the plan against the side views. On the smaller model, I had to build a new set of formers because they don't match the sizes needed for the booms. I don't like the flexible pushrod (or wire) for the elevator, as I think it allows some flutter at high speeds. That may be solved on the larger version. I powered mine with twin OS .25FXs and it is not only good looking, but a lot of fun to fly. The nice thing about the smaller version is that it fits into my Toyota 4-Runner completely assembled. Good luck on yours, Lee

4unlimited 09-22-2005 05:59 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
Thanks for your input Lee !

Things will be taken in consideration before placing the final plan-order from either Mr. Uravitch or Mr. Palmer

Rick

osxpro 11-21-2005 09:58 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
Gentlemen,
I am currently looking at building the Palmer Bronco. I already have the plans in hand and have also ordered the laser kit from kitcutters.com. I'm not the type of guy who likes to re-invent the wheel so I would GREATLY appreciate any input from those who have actually built it. While I'm not an expert builder I do have some good experience. I suspect that having the kit laser cut, it should allow for an easier build.
I am planning on powering the Bronco with the new Saito 1.25's coming out next month. Also, I'm planning on glassing the fuse and wings. I'm not sure how this will affect the wing loading though.


R/C Lee 11-21-2005 11:14 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
osxpro, that sounds like a fun project. Are you planning to go all out with retracts, flaps, scale details? I haven't built the Palmer, but I'm sure having fun with the smaller Uravitch version. In fact, it's so much fun to fly with those twin engines running, that I'd build another if something happens to this one. Please keep us up to date on your progress. Lee

osxpro 11-22-2005 08:33 AM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
2 Months ago I bought the 52" Uravich and put two Saitos in it. I fell in love with it instantly so I decided to go all out with the Palmer. The 52" version was a pain due to the weak landing gear (buckled on the first landing) but I got that part beefed up with CF bracing/supports. It does land hot with those Saito's though!!! There's plenty of power but with all those servos and engines it has a high wing load. Last week I stipped the wing, Extended the wingspan by 8" and added independant Aileron servos. I haven't gotten the chance to fly it like that but hopefully this weekend I will. The 52" Bronco definately needs independant Ail servos. The pushrod setup on it is horrible. In fact, I had to use a 125 oz servo and even then the Ailerons were "sticky".
One shining point though. I have a JR 9303 Tx and the twin eng function is a godsend! With the independant throttle curves I was able to dial the engines in within 10 RPM of each other all the way through the throttle. That make a HUGE difference since this plane wants to yaw.


For the Palmer, I'm planning on creating a fairly detailed progress web page starting sometime next month. I'll be sure to post it here when I get going on the build. Some of the features I'm planning for the build:

pnematic Ceturyjet scale retracts

Dual/counter rotating Saito 1.25's
(Possibly considering Gassers though)

Dual Rx

Glassed airframe with automotive type paint

Scale Cockpit ( I have the cockpit plans too)



I haven't desided if I'm going to use a military paint scheme. I'm not a huge fan of camo but it would be a bit more scale to do that (especially if I equip it with guns/bombs). I like the Ca forestry paint job but I may just go ahead with my own custom scheme.
I cringe at the thought of how much this project is going to cost but hopelully I can spread it out over 5-6 months (with my side IT jobs covering the costs). I've figured that this project in totality will run my around 4K once it's all said and done.

2 Months ago I bought the 52" Uravich and put two Saitos in it. I fell in love with it instantly so I desided to go all out with the Palmer. The 52" version was a pain due to the weak landing gear but I got that part beefed up with CF bracing. It does land hot with those Saito's though!!! There's plenty of power (and MAN those twin 4S sound great) but with all those servos and engines it has a high wing load.
Last week I stripped the wing, extended the wingspan by 8" and added independant Aileron servos. I haven't gotten the chance to fly it like that but hopefully this weekend I will. I suspect that the additional 8" will help a good deal.
The 52" Bronco definately needs independant Ail servos. The pushrod setup on it is horrible. In fact, I had to use a 125 oz servo and even then the Ailerons were "sticky".

I've figured that this Bronco, in totallity, will run around 4K. That's a kick in the wallet but it'll definately be a great "event" plane.



R/C Lee 11-22-2005 06:47 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
osxpro, keep this thought: When you spend $ on something you like, especially this crazy hobby of ours, you extend your life. Not only that, the adrenaline that pumps through our veins when we fly these works of art is very good for our circulation and heart. I keep telling my wife that, but I don't think she believes it :). Looking forward to seeing your photos in process. Lee

osxpro 11-22-2005 06:57 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
That's EXACTLY why I Fly!!! I have a Midget Mustang that does 110 mph+... When I fly that plane my blood preasure goes up along with my adreneline... This hobby is like crack cocaine to us guys (often at the same price) without having to go to jail...
As for the women, your right! 99.99% will never understand. My ex wife was the biggest b*tch about RC. Notice I said "Ex" wife. My (now) wife loves that I have a hobby and interests. She's one in a million! Did I mention she's drop dead gorgeous to?
Life is good! : )

Wayne22 11-27-2005 07:31 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
1 Attachment(s)
My Dad built a giant scale Uravitch bronco..he extended the wing to 84 inches and used two Saito 91's for power. It was an absoute dream to fly. I remember the test flight, we were all alone at the field and my son (who is a really good stick) did the honors...before we landed there were about 15 other fliers there...they were up the road at a hobby shop and heard the beautiful music of those twin Saitos......

Unfortunately, the pressure nipple blew out of one the engines which died, and I did not notice until too late...stall, spin, crash. (I'm claiming pilot error on that one). I'll build another some day...

osxpro 11-27-2005 09:12 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
I got to fly my Bronco with the mods in place. By extending the wingspan 8" and adding independant Ail servos, the plane flies SOOOOOOOOO much better than it did. It still yaws a bit in a cross wind but nothing serious. Take-offs and landings are much easier with the addition of 8" of winspan.

R/C Lee 11-27-2005 10:21 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
osxpro, good to hear about your flight with the extended wingspan. I don't know why I did it, maybe it just looked better, but when I built mine I added a full rib section to each tip, which extends the wingspan appx 5 inches or so. Although it still lands a little fast, I know it would be a real handful with the wingspan shown on the plans.

The white stuff has started falling around here, so it looks like I won't be flying the OV-10 for a while unless I put skis on it. Anyone try it with skis - if so, do you use DuBro skis or make your own?

Lee

osxpro 11-27-2005 10:36 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
R/C Lee,
Did you stick with the one Ail servo or did you use independent servos? Mine had that cr*ppy single Ail servo with the Nylon pushrod system. I had to use a 125 oz servo because it was so stiff. By adding independent servos, I was able to put standard BB servos in it AND I now have flapperons which helps a great deal on those landings. I bet I cut down landing speed by 5-8 MPH.
As for winter ski's... I'd love to see that!


Almost forgot!!!! I took some video of my Bronco flying yesterday. I'll post it on my web site tomorrow.

osxpro 11-28-2005 12:08 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
Here's the video! It was taken this last Saturday afternoon. You'll need quicktime to view this file. The movie file is about 8 megs.

http://63.243.123.67/~csanders/broncoshort.mov

Just a quick tech note for those who haven't followed this threat,
This is the 52" Uravich Bronco that has been mod'ed a bit. I extended the winspan 8", it has twin .40 Saitos and has also been modified with Independent Ail servos vs that crappy single servo/pushrod setup.

R/C Lee 11-28-2005 07:11 PM

RE: Rich Uravitch Bronco versus Dan Palmer Bronco
 
osxpro, I used one aileron servo in the center of the wing with wire pushrods out to bellcranks, which then use wire pushrods to the aileron clevises. It's a bit "clunky", and if I built another one, I'd use separate aileron servos. I can see where the flaperons would be very helpful on landing; good idea.

By the way, if you don't already know, you can buy rocket body tubes to feed servo wires into a wing or fuselage. They're rolled paper with glue which makes them stiff and easy to cut to length and they come in various diameters. I use the 1/2" tubes which are just right for servo plugs. I just glue them into the ribs or formers during construction and it provides additional strength without much weight. Feed a heavy thread from one end to the other, tie it to the servo connector and pull it through. When using servo extensions, I tape the connectors together before feeding into the tubes.

On the OV-10 I used the large diameter Sullivan flex cable to move my elevator with a single servo. Initially, I used a HiTec 425BB servo, but I could hear some flutter in a high speed diving run over the runway. So, I changed the servo to a HiTec 645 metal gear servo which gives me a little more torque, but the safety of metal gears and I haven't heard any further flutter. I do, however, keep those diving turns to a minimum just in case ;).

Haven't looked at the video yet. Thanks, Lee


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