Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I am adapting a set of Dan Palmer Shrike Commander plans into Turbo Commander 1000 plans, and I had a couple of questions. I would like to power it with electrics because the real airplane is a turbo-prop, and I couldn't stand the sound of a couple of fuel burners on a flyby. Also, the nacelle of the 1000 is very narrow. It would be fine for an electric, but I don't have much experience with them. I need something coparable to a 90-120 four stroke. I also would like them to swing scale diameter "20 three-blade props if possible. Any input is appreciated.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

After some research, I realize 20" 3 blade props would probably be a bit much, and I can't really find them anyway. However APC does make 20" 2 blade props which I could settle for. I just want the large spinning prop disc these planes are known for. Again, I have really very little experience with electric motors and gear boxes. ANY help would be great. I am getting my parts cut now, and would like to have the plans done when I get the parts back. Thanks again,

Jeff

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

You can find from 16 to 32 inch three blade props here:

http://www.aircraftinternational.com/

http://giantscaletwins.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxOtgGqZ9Zg

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Hi Jeff,

Great scale subject ;-)
A pair of AXI 5320/28 outrunners will turn APC-E 20"X10" props at over 5000 RPM on 8 LiPo´s. That makes around 2kW total of input power
[link=http://www.modelmotors.cz/index.php?page=61&product=5320&serie=28&line=GOLD]AXI 5320/28[/link]
For comparison, I got scale performance on my Palmer Commander by using AXI 4130/20´s, turning APC-E 17"X 10" props at 6300 RPM (1600 W)
For power I used E-tec 7s LiPo packs (with rather poor performance due to voltage depression!)

Here´s a video showing a 132" span DH Comet, powered with the same setup as mine but with good LiPo´s
The plane is flown by Melf-Heiko Mast in Germany. Very impressive
[link=http://www.modelmotors.cz/index.php?page=winner010807]DH Comet[/link]

Hope this helps, Good luck
Leo

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Thanks for the info. Leo, do you think I could use a gearbox with your setup and be able to swing the 20" 3 blades, or would you even recommend using a gearbox? If not, that is fine I will still find something I can use. Fancman, can you use those 3-blade props on an electric setup? I had found a few, but none that were advertised for electric use. Thanks again guys. I am really excited to get started on this project.

Jeff

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I don´t have much experience with geared motors but the AXI motors are designed for direct drive and I believe an inrunner motor with a planetary gear box would be more efficient
Here´s what some of the F3A guys are using:
[link=http://www.hacker-motor.com/images/Catalog08/Hacker-2008-WEB%2036+37.pdf]Hacker C50[/link]
A 20" three blade prop will produce a lot of torque and may overstress the nacelles and surrounding wing structure. Also, cooling problems seem to be common with geared motors / engines in general, so my vote goes to the 4130/20 motor. 17" props does´nt look too bad in my opinion

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

More electric props.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/elecprop.htm

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

No, the props don't look bad. I will probably just end up using your setup, and making a set of static props for looks. How have you liked your Shrike? It is a beautiful airplane. I saw the video of it on youtube, and was instantly jealous. Where did you get your gear? Is it the CJM Shrike gear, or did you use others? Mine won't look the same as yours, but I hope it comes out at least as nice. Did you get a kit, or scratchbuild?

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Thanks, I´m very pleased with the flying qualities of the plane

More info on my build here (post # 14)
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_941012/mpage_1/key_shrike%2Cflight%2Creport/tm.htm]Shrike thread[/link]

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

That is a pretty good build thread. Lots of good information. I do have some differences in mind for mine, but overall it shouldn't affect the way it flies. Did you make nav light lenses, or are your lights just painted on the wings? I would really like to put functioning lighting on it, but I am not sure how to make the lenses. That's all minor details though. I need to just get started building.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I have another question. Where did you get your wheels? I am having trouble finding the right look for the wheels, and yours look pretty good.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Hello Jetfixr: I finished building my Shrike from Palmer plans not long ago and just test flew it approx 1 month ago. I originally started out with OS91 Surpass II's but could not get off the grass runway, also the temp here is approx 90 deg F with 90% humidity. I installed (2) YS110S engines - ran them in for 10 flights each in a test plane then in the Shrike. The Aero Commander Shrike flies very well and lands easily with flaps even at 26.5pounds. The plane is very solid in the air. Also using Robat retracts. You can see my plane under my listing.

Howard

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Yes, I have seen your Shrike on your page. It is a beautiful airplane! I can't wait to get started on mine. I am still waiting to get the wood parts cut, so in the mean time, I am trying to gather up other parts I will need. Also, I am working on the plans still. I am going to make it electric, mainly because the real aircraft was a turbo prop, so the nacelles are very narrow compared to the Shrike and alot of the engine would show. Also, I have very little experience with twins, so I am also trying to minimize the chances of an engine out situation. Where did you get your wheels from? They look really good. Also, what size are they? I am trying to replicate the turbo commander as closely as possible, and it is actually turning out easier than I thought it would. I just had to lengthen the fuselage 10 inches, and I lengthened the wing 1.75 inches on each side between the nacelle and the fuselage. That makes it a full 10ft! The only thing I am having trouble with is designing the nacelle formers. I have good top and side views, but making it 3 dimensional is another thing. I think I will just build one out of poster board and foam board, and make adjustments until it looks right. Thanks for the input, and if there is anything I need to know about the build let me know!

Jeff

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

The nav lights are just painted on. I used Humbrol metallic.
The wheels on the pictures are DuBro 5" Threaded Lite. I later switched to lighter (not-so-scale looking) wheels, as the air system just barely managed to handle the long main gear legs with the DuBro´s
For air supply, I am using two big air containers as shown in the plans, which is enough for about 8-10 gear sequences.

Howard, Congratulations on the successful flights with your Shrike. Your plane is beautiful and I bet the YS 110´s sounds fantastic.

Leo

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Leo,

What do you think about the CJM retracts? I am trying to decide what to use. The price is definitely better on the CJM verses the Robart gear. Have you had any trouble with them? Did you have to make any mods to the airframe to use them?

Jeff

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I finally got to finish my nacelle mock up. It is a VERY rough draft, but I just wanted to make sure I got the shape right. I think I got it pretty close for completely hand drawing them. The green foam area is going to be the silver portion, and it will be removeable. The spinner on there is 1/4 inch smaller than the one I will be using, and quite a bit shorter, but you get the idea. Feedback please!

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Jeff,
Your nacelle mock-up looks very good in my eyes. I guess there will be minimal space left over when motors, retracts and gear door control systems are installed. Where do you plan to put the motor batteries?
Initially I had some issues with the CJM gear but the errors has been corrected by now according to Bruce Sanders at CJM. (guess I got the beta version) The gear is holding up well, despite some very hard landings.
The main gear will require the hardwood mounts to be installed deeper into the nacelles, as the pivot points are offset referring to the legs center line
Hopefully the enclosed drawing will clarify what I mean.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Thanks for the kind words about the nacelle. The more I look at it I see some changes that need to be made, but nothing that can't be done easily. I like the forward half, but the back half needs some rework. I see what you mean about the pivot point. I wonder why they did it that way. Do you mean they need to be mounted higher in the nacelle, or more rigidly? What were some of the problems you had with them? I would like to give them a call and see what they did to fix them. I haven't quite figured out where the batteries will go. I would like to keep them in the nacelle because I will have pretty good air flow to them, but space will be tight. I may be able to put them in the bottom of the nacelle behind the firewall forward of the gear. There they will get air from the engine intake, and I will make the exhaust pipe open so air will flow through. Plus, when the gear is down they will get lots of air. I have just heard horror stories about lipo's getting hot, and I am trying to keep them as cool as possible.

Jeff

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Jetfixr, where can I get a set of plans for the Commander?

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Jeff, With the CJM´s, the hardwood mounts need to be located higher in the nacelles. This also means that the CJM legs need to be about 5/8" longer than the Robarts.
PM sent about the CJM errors.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Scalenut07,

I have a set of Dan Palmer plans. You can get them from Precision Cut Kits for sure. I am sure there are probably different places you can get them, but I know you can get them there. I actually found mine on Ebay, so you may want to look there also. These plans however are for the Shrike Commander. I am doing some pretty extensive mods to them to make them into a Turboprop Commander like in post #1. They do seem like very accurate and detailed plans. I am looking forward to starting on this plane.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Yep, I found a set on ebay and I will purchase them. I am looking forward to following this build thread. Good luck

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Great! Feel free to post any pics or anything you want. Are you going to start building soon? I will start hopefully within the next couple of weeks. My parts are still being cut. I am still trying to decide what gear to use. I did order the motors yesterday, and have almost completely finished the former plans and parts for the nacelles. That is a lot of work using paint and Adobe Illustrator. When I get them all done I will post a pic of them. I think they will turn out great.

Jeff

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I haven't posted anything here in a while, but I am still working on it. I am still waiting for my parts to finish being cut. The cutter I am using said he is very busy right now. Hopefully not much longer though. I have finished my nacelle design and layout. That is what the pictures are of. I am still waiting on my motors to arrive to finish the inside details of the firewall (NF-2). Then they will be completely done. I hope the nacelles come out as good as I think they will. They are one of the best looking features of this aircraft. That is pretty much all I have until the parts get here...

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I actually got my motors today! They are going to fit perfectly. Now I just need some wood to mount them to...

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Looks like your motors will work great. I missed the last auction for the plans so I have to wait for them to come around again. Who is cutting your kit? I want to install a complete interior, lights, the whole 10 yards. The nacel drawing looks great! Looking forward to more pics. Have you decided on retracts yet?

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

That's a bummer you missed the auction. It will come around again though. I am using a company in Texas called Lazerworks (www.lazer-works.com) to cut my kit. I used them because they will give me whatever pieces I want. I am only getting fuselage formers and wing/tail group ribs. This is the first time he has cut this kit though, so it takes a while to get the plans traced into the computer. He said that he will be able to cut the whole kit now though, so you may give him a try. I am also going to put lighting on mine, however I don't plan to really go crazy with the interior. I really want to use Robart retracts. I just like the way they look. The large drag link on the 150 model Robart gear looks a lot like the real thing. I may use the 100 degree 150's instead of the 93 degree Shrike Commander set they have. I want the wheels to completely retract into the bays. Keep me posted on your progress. Do you plan to start building soon?

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I will start building as soon as I get the plans and a materials list to get some wood coming. I am wanting to go as scale as possible and hoefully go to Top Gun in 2010. Long ways off but I am going to give it a shot.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

That sounds like a great plan! Like I said before, feel free to post all you want here. The plans look like it will be a great airplane to build.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

For anybody still interested, I am still working on the Turbo Commander. I finally got word from my kit cutter that the parts were finished, and should be here on Tuesday! In the mean time I have been doing some little things like working on the lighting circuitry, finding wheels, reworking the nacelles a little, ect. I will post some pics when I get the parts in, and hopefully get started on it soon after that and post some build pics. This is going to be a great project!

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Well after a long wait, I finally got my parts!! I got started framing up the left side of the forward fuselage section. I posted a couple of pics to illustrate. My workspace is quite small, so the pics aren't that great, but you can see what is going on. The parts look good, and seem to fit so far. This is going to be a pretty big airplane. I guess you never realize how big they are in plan form, but when they start rising up out of them, they look a lot bigger. I will probably work on it some more tonight and tomorrow. I will continue to post pics here for anybody interested.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I have gotten some more built on the Commander. I have finished framing up the left side of the forward fuse section, and removed it from the table. I will now start on the right side. I want to get all four fuse sections roughly framed up, and then join them together to make sure the alignment is completely perfect before I get so much structure built that I can't manipulate it anymore. Not quite what the instructions say, but this is how I am doing it. I think it is looking really good so far though. I will post some more pics possibly tomorrow.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I have some updated pictures of the commander. I have taken the front left section of the fuselage off of the building board. I have gotten the baggage door framed out, the nose gear retract rail installed, and the left air bottle support installed. I will be putting all my switches and airline connectors behind the baggage door. Next, I will be building the aft section of the left side. Some of the stringer notches didn't line up very well, but it shouldn't matter after I get the fuselage sheeted. I have also included a picture of the airplane I am modeling this one after.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I am following your build with great interest. My calculation says the fuselage length will be 8,6 ft. so I guess you plan to make the aft fuselage removeable for transport?
I was doubtful about the fuselage joint construction with brass tubing shown on the plans, but it has actually proved to work fine on my Palmer Shrike

The lower "corners" of fuselage formers 18-22 did not line up very well. I solved this by adding fillets of scrap balsa, using former 17 and 23 as a guide.
(see enclosed picture) Dan Palmer was informed about this and hopefully your plans are corrected.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I believe I have the fuse at 8' 4", and yes it will definitely have a removeable tail section. No, my formers didn't line up perfectly either. I have just glued the stringers sticking out of the slots a little to make them line up, and will be adding scrap balsa like you. This is definitely an intricuit design. Many small pieces and lots of structure. It is actually built along the same lines as the full size Commander. Have you had yours out lately?

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I got the left side of the rear fuselage built today. Nothing really out of the ordinary there, but more stringer notches didn't line up well. Again however, it shouldn't matter in the long run. I held them together with a clothes pin and snapped a pic. Fuselage length should end up about 99" with nose cone installed and tail block installed. I am missing a couple of formers for the right side, so it may be a few days before I get much done on the right side pieces. I will definitely have to jig the fuselage pieces somehow when I glue them together. There is not a lot of lateral strength when they are apart, so I definitely do not want to glue them crooked. I will figure out something though. That is a 48" ruler in front.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I haven´t flown my Commander for a while. The LiPo battery packs are in poor condition and I have not yet decided whether I should buy a new set or go back to IC power
Right now, my efforts are concentrated on getting an electric powered 1/4-scale Sopwith 2F.1 Camel completed

You could get a perfectly warp free fuselage by completing the fuselage sides before joining them. It worked really well for me.
Sorry for the poor quality of the picture.

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

I thought about that, but I want to be able to access the inside after I join them. I want to be able to install all my servo mounts, etc. in one piece across the formers. Also, my wing center section is going to be quite a bit different. The diehedrial doesn't start on the 1000 until about 1' outside of the fuse. For this reason, I am going to have to redesign the center section a bit, and it will help alot to have a fuselage there to work with. I will be able to jig it straight. It is just a matter of doing it. What happened to your lipo's?

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

Just a quick update. I framed most of the right side of the forward fuselage section tonight. I still have some things to add, but could probably have it finished up in a day. However, I am waiting for a former that was missing when I recieved my parts. I don't want to take it off of the board until I have that former. I will post some more pics when I get it completed. Until then, how about just an inspirational pic...

RE: Twin Turbo Commander 1000 setup
 

My 10C E-tec LiPo cells was manufacured in 2005 and the performance was modest by todays standard
Now the voltage depression is substantial and the packs can no longer deliver enough power for safe flying

I´m sure your building method will work fine. IMO, Palmer´s wing center section attachement to the fuselage is not very well thought out anyway
The pictures of your build are very good. Keep them coming!