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Maybe "outside the box" programming transmitter

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Old 04-05-2009, 06:32 PM
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Default Maybe "outside the box" programming transmitter

Included are some images.... I want to program a Futaba TX6A to do this ... can it be done? and if so what mixes do I write.

don't know why thumbnails not showing (I fixed that...program likes JPG's)but first is neutral, second aileron, third is elevator and forth is rudder
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:28 PM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter

Your pictures leave a lot to be desired...so I have to use my imagination here.
Is this the final programming for something like a VTOL foamy? I'm also assuming you want to split the rudder function ( top half/bottom half) to go in opposite directions?

I need more info in order to assist you.....
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:23 AM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter

Much more advanced than a foamy....but would use a similar setup.. The difference is that rudder and aileron are different from a foamy setup. BTW the images for whatever reason did not generate a thumbnail image so you have to click them to see them. View is from the rear (ie top fin, right fin, left fin, bottom fin) (each has its own servo per surface.)
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:22 AM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter

You typed an awful lot of words..........and didn't answer a single question! I got the thumbnail thingy.....Now, if your little project is top secret stuff.....then fine, be a vague as you possible can. But if it's not, I need to know what you mean by similar but different!!

Will the Ailerons function as Ail's only, or also as Elevators also? Same question for the Rudder......will it be Rudder, and then Aileron?
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:38 AM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RC MANIAC119

You typed an awful lot of words..........and didn't answer a single question! I got the thumbnail thingy.....Now, if your little project is top secret stuff.....then fine, be a vague as you possible can. But if it's not, I need to know what you mean by similar but different!!

Will the Ailerons function as Ail's only, or also as Elevators also? Same question for the Rudder......will it be Rudder, and then Aileron?
Yes, it will be vague ...for a reason....

I want the rudder to "twist" the whole system.. (ie right twist, left twist) but controlled by left stick (normally rudder on mode 2... I think)

I want the aileron to move what normally would be seen as a rudder surfaces (both top and bottom fins but those only)...but the stick that moves them is the aileron stick (standard mode 2 I think I rember it as)

I want the elevator to move the horizontal fins....(right and left side ...but those only)


so its a bit different from any foamy setup or even a delta config

maybe this will clear it up..
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:52 PM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter

OK...........to start with, I can't imagine this working......not for anything controllable. Time will tell if I'm right about that.

To start with, your going to need 2 servo's for each surface....2 rudder...2 ele...2 ail.......

(I want the rudder to "twist" the whole system.. (ie right twist, left twist) but controlled by left stick (normally rudder on mode 2... I think)
You will have to program in "PARA"....linking Rud to Rud.......just change the servo direction to get the desired direction.

(I want the aileron to move what normally would be seen as a rudder surfaces (both top and bottom fins but those only)...but the stick that moves them is the aileron stick (standard mode 2 I think I rember it as) This will not work......the ail's must remain the same...controlled by the right stick...side to side- opposite directional throws. Besides....we solved that above!!

(I want the elevator to move the horizontal fins....(right and left side ...but those only) ........You can solve this problem, and the one above with the ailerons........
plug in the aileron servos into channel 1 and 2 (Futaba) Activate aliavator function in Para. This will allow elevator movement (up and down) with the right stick...and also proper aileron movement with the right stick...left and right!!

If you set this up properly.....the only thing you've accomplished is a totally uncontrolable rocket, that will twist reaLLY GOOD...

I don't get it..........WHY???
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Old 04-06-2009, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RC MANIAC119

OK...........to start with, I can't imagine this working......not for anything controllable. Time will tell if I'm right about that.

To start with, your going to need 2 servo's for each surface....2 rudder...2 ele...2 ail.......

(I want the rudder to "twist" the whole system.. (ie right twist, left twist) but controlled by left stick (normally rudder on mode 2... I think)
You will have to program in "PARA"....linking Rud to Rud.......just change the servo direction to get the desired direction.

(I want the aileron to move what normally would be seen as a rudder surfaces (both top and bottom fins but those only)...but the stick that moves them is the aileron stick (standard mode 2 I think I rember it as) This will not work......the ail's must remain the same...controlled by the right stick...side to side- opposite directional throws. Besides....we solved that above!!

(I want the elevator to move the horizontal fins....(right and left side ...but those only) ........You can solve this problem, and the one above with the ailerons........
plug in the aileron servos into channel 1 and 2 (Futaba) Activate aliavator function in Para. This will allow elevator movement (up and down) with the right stick...and also proper aileron movement with the right stick...left and right!!

If you set this up properly.....the only thing you've accomplished is a totally uncontrolable rocket, that will twist reaLLY GOOD...

I don't get it..........WHY???

Lol...I won't keep you "wondering"...but I have my reasons to keep it vague... I sent you a PM...;-)
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:24 PM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter

This is what you mean..right??

TOTALLY DO-ABLE!!!
TOTALLY UNCONTROLLABLE!!
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:24 AM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter

No...from what I could tell...but I only could get a very small pic out of clicking... but no, not even a little bit......BUT...the surfaces seem to mimic the description I have above.. What is this?...is there a bigger picture available? All I can see is it looks like some sort of freeflight (but maybe rc controlled) pinwheel apparatus


I have found something that >may< work...have to read a lot of a few different threads to see if the method they use (mix) can do what I need done. You can find this craft known as a "hoverfoam" by googling it

or here a is thread on it

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=hoverfoam

The surfaces you show may be a more accurate way of doing what I need done.....My "project" is involves none of the above...nor the hoverfoam...however, it will probably use the same control functions/system but actually completely in reverse....but that is easily fixed once the system/mix is set up....so I won't go into that realm yet.


Now for all practical purposes, let's discuss the controls (or making them better/more effective ) for a hoverfoam.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:31 AM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter

Maniac,

I gotta tell you, your patience exceeds ANYBODY's expectations!

Alas, mine is expended. I cannot remember losing interest in a thread so fast. Good luck with this one.

Dave Olson
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:28 PM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter

Got to love the foamies!!
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:02 PM
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Default RE: Mayby "outside the box" programming transmitter

After 32 pages of thread in one forum, and 15 in another... I pretty much determined that the hoverfoam is doable..although extremely difficult to actually fly. This is due in part to a lot of balance and coupling problems causing shortfalls that have to be mentally overcome to fly it.

I mentioned that we should carry on the thread thinking "hoverfoam" and how to better it.... well , that is not going to work as 32 pages later , they still haven't come close.

Some of them , I believe started of in the right direction ...but never continued by suggesting a)a duct tube and smaller control surfaces...and b) a counter -rotating prop at the top to kill torque. This adds weight and only adds a marginal lift factor. There is another project called the Levjet that looked to be sorta viable(more closer cousin to what I am doing) but I have not seen any discussions about the mix for that bird.

In the hoverfoam thread, there was some clues as to what might actually work.

Here's my take

Ok.. lets use a servo per fin.

Horizontal goes to elevator stick
Vertical goes to aileron stick
all surfaces work as a whole...elev operates both horizontal surfaces...aileron operates both vertical surfaces..

now lets use 4 stand alone outboard mixers...

we plug each servo into a mixer...and the original input to the mixer.

now we take the rudder output (what I want to use to create twist) and split it 4 ways and plug to second channel of each mixer.

everything should work correct...and when the rudder is used, they should twist .This may have to be modified to make sure the twist is in same direction . I suspect one fin axis may have to be reversed...but it has to be reversed at the mixer...not at the rudder/reciever....or transmitter..



RCmaniac,

Whatever that thingie is in the pic seem to be doing just that....but I can't tell what it is as the pic is too small.

Maybe this will get the thread "on track"

If there is a mix that can be achieved in say a Futaba 6 AX transmitter, then that is the mix I need...or maybe someone has modded the mixes to get to that end.





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