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Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

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Old 12-27-2009, 07:52 PM
  #1
firehopper
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Default Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

great planes VFO vertical flying object, looks kinda like 2 pbf's at right angles. anyway, I'm having issues getting my dx7 to controll it properly. Icant figure out the mixes right.


Ido have it setup properly in my A9, so Iknow it can be done, just dont know if the spektrum can do it.

the vfo

www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p


as to the setup if looking from the back of the vfo, with the cockpit upright.

top control = rudder
left control = aileron
right control = elevator
bottom control = rudder2

acro type

1 aileron servo, normal tail, 1 engine, and no to all other questions.

in chan menu, the channel assignments are as follows

ch1 - AILE - J1
ch2 - ELEV - J2
ch3 - THRO - J3
ch4 - RUDD - J4
ch5 - RUD2 - J4
rest are unused

aileron - reverse
elevator - reverse
throt - normal
rudder - normal
rudder2 - reverse



4 mixes.

1>aileron >elevator L+R both +100
2> Elevator > aileron L+Rboth -100
3> aileron >rudder L+R both -100 set to activate when switch a is down
4> aileron >rudder2 L+R both +100 set to activate when switch a is down,

everything seems to be setup properly, just need to setup the controll rods and it should be ready to go.


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Old 12-28-2009, 03:20 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

Fire that is a similar setup that I used with my Airtronics SD-10G. Only different is I told it to use the Elevon function like you would for a flying wing then the 2 rudders as you did and mixed it all in.

FYI there is a thread for the VFO here on RCU at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_93...tm.htm#9347741

Enjoy and have fun with it.
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Old 12-28-2009, 04:22 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

nice, got it all setup and tryed a bit of hovering in living room.. not a good idea

cant get the spektrum setup to do proper mixing, It might be me though and not the radio..


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Old 12-28-2009, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

I programmed one of those for a friend just a few weeks ago. This is what I did:

1. Elevon wing. This alone will take care of 2 of the mixes you have above. No need to re-invent the wheel.
2. Rudder upper and lower go on separate channels. Mix Rudder to the Rudder lower so that it moves in the same direction.
3. Mix alieron to rudder so that the rudder moves in the direction indicated on the manual.
4. Mix aileron to the lower rudder so that it moves in the direction indicated in the manual.

Once i understood the concept, It took me just a few minutes to program the radio.

Rafael
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:42 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

Yea not a good idea at all. Wait for a nice calm day and try it outside. Raf that is the setup I used. The hard part so far has been adjusting the mix on the rudders so they move the same. If they are not spot on you get a role coupling to it. I am still fighting it a bit , but have it almost trimmed out. Every flight it gets a little better as I play with it.
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Old 12-28-2009, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

not supposed to be calm here for at least another day or two.

Ithink someone needs to make a model for phoenix sim


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Old 01-06-2010, 03:07 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

I'm having the same problem with the Spektrum DX6i. I've got everything moving in the right direction andat the right time but, in the elevon mode, I only get one half travel on my aileron servos. Anybody got a clue? By the way, I had to use a Y connector for my rudder servos.
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)


Quote:
ORIGINAL: 91flt

....... By the way, I had to use a Y connector for my rudder servos.......

Using a Y connector on the rudder servos will not give you the desired movement. you need both of them to move in the same direction for rudder, but in opposite directions for aileron.

Sorry, I do not know the DX6 well enough to help you with the sileron problem.

Rafael
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Old 01-07-2010, 03:42 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

Thanks for trying. Anybody else out there got a clue? Getting close to the end of my rope.
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:07 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

If you are going to ignore my comment about the rudder, then here is a comment about the DX6i:

Quote:
NOTE: When Flaperon or Delta Wing type is selected, the travel adjustment is used to adjust the
individual servo throw, while the combined aileron travel is adjusted with the aileron dual rate. It
is also possible to set aileron differential. Reverse switches are applicable for each servo. Neutral
adjustments of each servo are made by the Sub Trim Function.
Taken from page 44 of the DX6i Radio Programming Guide. A copy of which can be found here:
[link]http://www.squadronleader.co.uk/pub/files/Accessories/Spektrum/1215619156_DX6i%20Manual.pdf[/link]

It seems that you have to adjust your dual rates. to get your full deflection.

Rafael
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Old 01-07-2010, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

It was not my intention to ignore your comment. The only reason I used the Y connector at all was that the VFO manual said to, if you lackenough mixing capabilities in your radio. I'm seventy years old and am really having a tough time getting my head around this. I do appreciate your help.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:31 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

From what I've read thus far, you can't get there from here. You wont get all 4 surfaces to move for ailerons if you use a Y harness. The reason you need the Y is because the DX6 only has 2 mixes. I use 3 mixes (no Y harness) on my DX7 and they all work fine. I just wish I could fly as well as they work ... funny thing how touch & goes aren't an option with the VFO. I would think you could still fly with normal (2 surfaces) ailerons, just not as snazzy.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:14 AM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

This is what I have in my Futaba 9-C. It may not apply to the spectrum radio's, but may give you a better idea (picture) as to how to do this.
#1 mix.....elevons. Both elevator halves move together with the stick back (up), and move opposite when aileron is applied, i/e left aileron, left aileron should come up, right down, etc. Elevons on all the time.

Mix #2rudder to flap, Rudder-Master-100%, Flapslave-100%, rudder channel for top rudder surface, flap (ch 6 or 7,whichever your radio calls for) for bottom rudder surface. On, all the time.

Mix #3-Aileron to Flap, Aileron-Master100%, Flap-Slave-100%again, aileron on whichever channel your radio specifies, flap on ch 6 or 7, again whichever your radio specifies. Assign this mix to a switch, say switch B, for the sake of argument.

Mix #4-Aileron to Rudder, Aileron-Master, 100 %, RudderSlave-100%, again, assign this to switch, B, for the sake of argument.


When all mixes activated with switch "B", all four surfaces will move the same direction with aileron input.

With switch "B" turned off, then the elevon mix works only on the elevators, ailerons, (up, down, left, and right), and the rudder to flap mix will move both rudder surfaces the same direction with rudder input (left and right).

Don;t know if this will help, or just confuse you more, as we have different radio systems, but I too, had to sit and think about this to get my head around it. Then, had to sit and move everything around to make sure all was working in the correct direction. Had to move some of the mixes to -100% to get the correct direction. Just reversing the servos did not do it, I had to go in to the mixes and reverse the percentages.
I tried the hovering thing in the yard, but just too windy, and with all 4 mixes activated, bit too much to catch up to. (thank heavens for the snow bank!)
Will try it without the mixes first, think I will be a bit more successful .

Now, just have to take it out this weekend (indoors) and see what happens! Yikes!!!

BJ

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Old 01-08-2010, 12:42 AM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

I've been thinking, since it acts a bit like a heli, changing the controlls around so that the elevator and rudder are on the same stick. (swap the rudder and aileron setup, with my radio its not hard to do, that would give one more of a heli feel when hovering, since the way its setup now, thats basicly what it does the aileron spins it around a center axis, just like the rudder would on a heli.

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Old 01-08-2010, 10:13 AM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

Thanks I'm up for anything. I'll let you know how it worked.
Bill
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Old 01-08-2010, 10:18 AM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

I can see the logic of your setup. My problem is I only have two mixes available on the DX6i.
Thanks,
Bill
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Old 01-08-2010, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

I've come to the same conclusion myself. However, that won't stop me from still trying. I 'm still looking for a way to trick it.
Thanks,
Bill
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

91fit

You are not alone, I for one of the old old guys are rooting for you!!! (74) What really makes life tough is the 6 year old grandson, yet to go to school and learn to read is a whiz on the computer. Now that's not even possible in my book, but there we are. Life could have been easy if JR had followed through with their 10X. Thing will hook up to your computer, program and store there and then download back to the transmitter. Too bad the pros working for JR did not follow up with programs and file for copy to us for their basics. Trouble is the nurds dont know there are actually people out here that do not grasp their poorly written manuals, even though we may be one of the better pilots in our local clubs?

Keep working on it, am sure you will get there. In the interium, will keep working on perfecting rolling circles.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)



RMenke,
Thanks for the incouragement.
91flt

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Old 01-08-2010, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

Guys I would not switch the ail rud as you had mentioned to have it fly more like a heli setup. You are in the hover mode so little that I think it would be counter productive. Also as I mentioned in the other thread you are better off taking off from the ground and either catching it yourself or having someone catch it to land. I have about 15 flights now and the last 5 landings have all been back to my hand. Just bring the VFO into a Harrier up to yourself and reach out and grab it. The simple reason is till you get it really dialed in with the trims and mixes it will not tolerate a hard landing. I have cracked 3 of the 4 wings tips so far from vertical landings that I did not think were that bad. As for the Y harness vs all 4 surfaces moving as ailerons. If you are only sport flying I would not worry about it. Just dial the throws all the way up and enjoy. If you want aggressive3D capabilities or are flying in a rather small area then I would suggest having the mixes setup with everything moving. I am flying on an Airtronics SD-10G so I can not speak to the programming for your other radios. I have some video of the VFO but have not been able to upload it to RCU as of yet, but am working on it.
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:38 AM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

I would advise anyone considering buying this plane, to check out there radio prior to making the purchase. You will need a radio with at least athree mix capability. This is something thatElectrifly should be making clear in their promotion of thisairplane. They are ofno help in setting up your radio ( I've tried).I've also gotten no help form Spektrum or Horizon Hobby. Horizon says they donot sell the plane and know nothing about itssetup.Your biggesthelp will come from this forum. Even at that, if your radioisn't capable of the requirements of the plane, you are out of luck. I'mconvinced the Spektrum DX6i if one of them. It just will not control the plane as it is intended. I'm going to hang the plane in my basement with the other disappointments I've hadover the years. And no, my wife is not hanging down there.
Quote:
ORIGINAL: firehopper

great planes VFO vertical flying object, looks kinda like 2 pbf's at right angles. anyway, I'm having issues getting my dx7 to controll it properly. Icant figure out the mixes right.


Ido have it setup properly in my A9, so Iknow it can be done, just dont know if the spektrum can do it.

the vfo

www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p


as to the setup if looking from the back of the vfo, with the cockpit upright.

top control = rudder
left control = aileron
right control = elevator
bottom control = rudder2

acro type

1 aileron servo, normal tail, 1 engine, and no to all other questions.

in chan menu, the channel assignments are as follows

ch1 - AILE - J1
ch2 - ELEV - J2
ch3 - THRO - J3
ch4 - RUDD - J4
ch5 - RUD2 - J4
rest are unused

aileron - reverse
elevator - reverse
throt - normal
rudder - normal
rudder2 - reverse



4 mixes.

1>aileron >elevator L+R both +100
2> Elevator > aileron L+Rboth -100
3> aileron >rudder L+R both -100 set to activate when switch a is down
4> aileron >rudder2 L+R both +100 set to activate when switch a is down,

everything seems to be setup properly, just need to setup the controll rods and it should be ready to go.


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Old 01-10-2010, 08:21 AM
  #22
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

The G.P. VFO is well designed but there are a few caveats that a customer should be aware of for a successful experience. The mention of using a Y-harness on the rudder is valid but they forgot to mention that this option will eliminate the rudders simultaneous usage as ailerons. The plane will still fly fine, it will just have less roll authority, which may also affect its ability to hover. I have not tested that setup.

The ElectriFly RimFire 300 motor must be reconfigured in order to utilize the prop-saver adapter and rubber o-ring. This requires the customer to change the position of the motor shaft. I found this procedure too difficult due to the threadlocker applied to the two grub screws that needed to be loosened. Using the normal prop adapter (also included) was much easier to install.

The VFO uses several mixes to synchronize all four control surfaces so a programmable transmitter is required. Elevon mixing is used on the "wings" to obtain normal flight and the second rudder surface is mixed from an AUX channel to match the rudder control. The final two mixes are used to allow the aileron channel to additionally swing the two rudder surfaces. In this manner, all four control surfaces follow the same aileron direction for rolls. Although three P-mixes are needed to accomplish this setup, it is still possible to leave out the last aileron-to-rudder mix so that only 3 of the 4 control surfaces follow the aileron stick. This reduction allows lower-end transmitters (like the Spektrum DX6i) to be used on the VFO with minimal ill effect on rolls.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

I still feel that a foamy designed to be used with a premium radio is ill conceived, unless that is clearly addressed in the promotion of the airplane.

I am not going to go out and buy a $300 plus radio just to fly this plane, as it is intended. If you already have one, great. Most of us that fly foamies in the backyard don't.

If you have watched the promotion video, you will notice the plane does not have a very axial roll in hover. I feel that to have one rudder control not working during a roll will surely aggravate that situation.

It has also been suggested in this forum that the vertical takeoff and landing not be used, if your radio does not have the capability to control it. What is the point of a vertical take off plane if you can't use thatfeature. I don't want to have to depend on catching it on landing either. There is no really good place to grab it.

Had I known of the radio complications of this aircraft, it would not be in my hanger.

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Old 01-17-2010, 08:57 PM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

We had some success with the G.P. VFO outdoors today as it was relatively calm with a temperature in the mid-30s. We took off from pavement and flew around a small park area. When landing, we hovered for a while and gently touched down on 1" of snow. Surprisingly, we had no damage but plenty of fun! The VFO seems to fly very slow so I can see it working well indoors if you have the right skill set. My setup uses only 2 mixes in addition to elevon mode on the Spektrum DX6i.

The VFO is definitely a different type of plane.

flying photos by "Papa Jeff" Ring
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Old 01-18-2010, 01:13 AM
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Default RE: Great planes VFO (PBF kinda thing)

Good to see it flyin'. Got mine up indoors, but need some time with a bit more room, did have limited success, does seem to hover nicely, seems to fly ok, if you can keep your orientation, finally broke the nose off after 3 po-dunks!
How about sharing your DX-6 mixes with 91flt, maybe will help with the radio setup confusion??.
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