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Electric Rotowing

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Old 08-26-2010, 10:47 PM
  #1
charlie111
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Default Electric Rotowing

I am currently looking for 2 motors that can work with 1 speed control.I could really use motors equal to 0.20 or 0.49.This Aircraft Rotates the lifting wing from the wingtips with electric motors with props.Hope I can find someone that knows where I can find these things?I am currently using a car heater fan speed control but I understand the better motors need to each have a channel of their own? Thanks Charlie Trying to upgrade this prototype!!
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Old 08-26-2010, 10:58 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

How about one speed controller that control's 2 motor's? And yes they do have them. I know they make one for r/c car's and truck's but forget what it's called.
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:43 AM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

original emaxxes came with a controller like that, i belive it was called the EVX or something?
there are a few out, ment mostly to work with 2 motored monster trucks, this was before they started throwing in a single huge brushless, realising of course it would work...
probbably some on ebay for a decent price, EVX is the correct name.
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Old 08-27-2010, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Hey Thanks alot.I think this is the most efficiante way to build a Rotarywing Aircraft.With no torqe transfer to the powerplant and fuselage.I wish I could find some people that want to Mass produce these full size for personal transportation.A 4stroke 5h.p.generator pollutes very little and could power a long duration flight.This could also be built in a re-chargable version for short flights uhder 100 miles or so?Thanks for the Help Hope you can Generate some interest in this Aircraft possibly an Ultrelight version?It has some dihedral for stabilization.This could replace the car in many instances.And the generator could be set-up to run on many fuels.The full size version also has a steerable motorized front wheel for taxying or short trips without having to Rotate the wing.I think the world is ready for this simple flyer.Navigation could be done with a cell phones g.p.s.Well I know it would help with pollution eliminating traffic jams.It is about 100% more efficiante than todays Helicopters which use gallons per.hr. Thanks Again Charlie
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Old 08-27-2010, 04:46 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

No problem, love the project idea, we have to open our minds up in all directions when it comes to finding solutions.
Make sure you look up the evx specs on the traxxas website, make sure your desired motors and battery are a fit to it, there are other options to some in the world of RC boating.
any other help just yelp lol
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:48 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Interesting project.
You may want to look up some information on the Hiller Powerblade built in the late 40's, it a similar type design.
If you use two brushed motors a single ESC (Electronic Speed Control) of the size to carry the current load of the two motors should work. However, if you use a brushless motor (much more efficient) two discrete speed controllers will have to be used for each motor; additionally for each of motors three conductors to carry power are required bringing to 6 the total number of power couplings that you will need in the rotor mast.

You were asking about motors in the range of two horsepower that's a lot of power 1500 watts to be exact, you may be able to get some good advice as far as the power system at:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/
This is a site dedicated to electric flight...

Good luck!

I used to live in Lynn some 50 years ago...
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Old 09-01-2010, 08:49 AM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

I meant high performance not horse power 0-20 or0.49 should be plenty of power Sorry for the confusion.Maybe when I build the full size version I'll need a horse power or 2 Thanks Charlie
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

If you want a high performance motor that is lightweight than you want a brushless motor. Something like a pair of High End Technology brushless Ducted fan motor HET 2W-23 they will give you RPM in the 30-40 K range, and weigh under 4 ounces. Another good option would be the HiMax 5300 KV motor, I think either option with a small prop they would give you the power you need for your model. Stick with a Castle Creations Phoneix ESC , I think they are hands down the best speed controller.
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Old 09-01-2010, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Are you a dealer or can you set me up with someone in my area Boston Ma.Oh and Thanks a Million!! I was worried I might not be able to do it ? I'll go with all you say.How much will it cost me roughly?
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Old 09-01-2010, 05:31 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

I almost made the wing pivot on it's center of lift and could use ducted fans to to change attitude? Maybe on another prototype .These are fixed for now.
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Old 09-01-2010, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

No I am not a dealer, just an aviation junkie.
Well I'm not sure of dealers in your area...
There is RC buyers warehouse in Nashua that carries Castle stuff...
Most often I buy many of my components online as it often is not the type of things most hobby dealers stock.
I got my HET motor from HET online as I do with most of my Castle Creations ESC's, few dealers stock the high amp high voltage ones I use.
There is a shop in Plymouth CME hobbies as well as Hanson Hobbies that can order stuff for you. The motors I mentioned are in the $60 range the speed controllers vary greatly in price dependent on the size.
Another interesting source for "expendable" components for experiments (that won't cost big bucks if something goes wrong) is BP hobbies. (view online catalog)
Yes the ducted fan setups are cool, however they are not as efficient as a prop. I often use df motors (because of there high rpm capabilities) and either gear them or use them with small diameter props for the type of aircraft I most often build.
I would think given your application where the motors will be moving your going to want to keep them small and as light as possible to keep your rotor assembly as light as possible, that is why I mentioned the DF motors the particular one I mentioned is under 4 ounces in weight.

Here are the websites I use
http://www.highendrc.com/
http://www.castlecreations.com/
http://www.cmehobbies.com/
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V815101
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Old 09-02-2010, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Was a Member of the 107 Flers Club out here and the A.M.A When I went to R/C Did alot of control line fromage 10-15 Largest plane in my collection of flightstreaks,flying wings ext. was the Nobler! Thanks for all your Help.Keep in touch Charlie
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

If you could get the name of the motor and company I'll call them! Thanks alot Do you see light at the en?d of the tunnel? Good to hear back
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:51 AM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

The company which produces the motors is High End Technology, the motor I think may work for you was the 2W-23. They are the only source for this motor as I have not seen any one else selling them as of yet. These are a fairly high performance motor rated at over 800 watts, not bad for a motor that weighs under 4 ounces.
Here is a link to the page you can order from.
http://www.highendrc.com/index_eprod...products_id=86

Now as far as the ESCs (speed controllers) I would stick with Castle Creation controllers your going to need something that is going to be able to pump a lot of power into the motors, and have good timing responses. I would look at 80-100 amp types regardless of the manufacture, your going to need something that can make up for your power losses through the hub.
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Old 09-15-2010, 04:28 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Will I have to get a gear box separetly.Any suggestions on ratio's and props or should I ask them ? I still have to weight it. I'm going to go with trhe castle creations for the ESC.Someone mentioned a motor that could turn alot of props forget who or what motor he was talking about?Don't know about the gearbox? Thanks Again your help is greatly appreciated
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

I built something like this in 90. Had a lot of trouble with the props distorting and messing everything up.
Wooden props would break! The centrifugal force was causing the spinning blades to distort horribly!
Finally mounted two motors (RS380) 90 degrees to the blades (on a fly bar). Ended up with very wide blade chords (4 inches) to get the rotor speed down.
It was mildly successful, but almost uncontrollable. Nearly overpowered with APC 6x2 props direct drive and 10 cell nicads...

If I were to do it again, I would use one motor as follows;

No slop ring- put a micro rx, battery and ESC at the hub, for a "wireless" power system. One motor and the other parts 180 degrees for balance.
This would be mounted on the "fly bar".
Make the blades like wings and huge! Maybe 24 span and 6 chord each.
Attach them at the 30% point and give them some pitch.

For control, I really don't know. Maybe 2 more motors for yaw and pitch, but no idea for roll...

I would like to see this go somewhere... Really interesting.

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Old 10-05-2010, 06:54 AM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

L fiberglassed the wing the other day to re-inforce it.Thought the motors would be hevier than they are.They are about the same wieght?My rotating wing is 6ft. long and 6 inches lead to tail edges.Nice to hear that someone thinks it is a good idea.I should be over powered now.The original motors were the only ones they had in stock at a rinky dink Hobby shop I went to.Have to get prop adapters and props today.Have to fing out if they change the shaft length?
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:43 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Hay whats up? Do you remember what props I need.I just got off the phone with horizon.Trying to get the adapters.With no spline or threads what do they use to attach it.Allen set screws maybe?Hope I'm not bothering you? Charlie p.s. Got the motors already and fiberglassed the wing!! Got to get the motors set in to balance it.Later.
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Old 10-05-2010, 03:40 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Joe My wing is 6 ft. long and 6 inches lead edge to tail edge.I am using vertical control sufaces for axis.This just about got off the ground with the cheapest motors I could find.Now I have 2 super motors and have fiberglassed the wing for strength without much of an increase in weight
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Old 10-05-2010, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

I would go with a smaller prop to start something like a 4.25X4.25 and see what that does for you. You need to get an ammeter and chose what is optimum for your craft, you are going to have to keep an eye on your current levels to select the right props. You can probably go as large as a 6X5, but I am taking a guess that the smaller prop sizes may work better for what you are doing. Typically a lot of adapters today are the collet type similar to a electric drill, you can also get the type that uses a setscrew to tighten them to the shaft. Make sure to get a prop balance setup, and balance your props before you run the motors up. The motors can spin upwards of 31,000 rpm with a three cell for power having everything balanced and mounted securely is a must!!! Do not run this up inside or with anybody standing close at this high of an rpm and power levels things can break and pieces fly off.
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Old 10-08-2010, 04:01 PM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Hey have'nt talked in a while.Wing is fiberglassed and finished.Got those 2w-23 motors and they don't seem to weigh much more than the others.Can the current be reversed to make the motor turn backwards.Have to deal with counter rotating props or would a gearbox be the only way.Don't know if it would matter much.I'm scratching my head now?
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

The drill type is probably what I need? it may fit different sizes although he quoted 2.6 as a diameter at it's largest or smallest dim.? I'll have to talk to him sounds like the set screw type may fit one size only.Shaft has no flat machined on it completly round.They look nice counter rotating set up three blade props.I've heard the motor will turn in reverse.Don't know but it seems one direction will produce more lift than the other?Got a Headache yet? I should enter that lifting contest? I have to balance the wing in all directions so I have to know if the adapters extend the shaft affecting were motor sits.Don't worry I'll stand behind my car.I don't expect much of a crowd Thanks alot p.s.I'll probably mount power supplies for each motor in pods uder the wing eliminating contacts or using them for something else?
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:35 AM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Maxx Products produce the prop adapters I use most often the part number for the 3.2 mm adapters (your motor shaft size) is: ACC372 .

It is a simple to change the direction of rotation for brushless motors you just swap two of the three wires between the motor and ESC and it will change the direction of rotation.

You will have to use a good quality composite prop for these motors where on three cell power you will have the capability of spinning a prop at 31,000 RPM. It is best that you use a good quality composite prop to keep the chance of something coming apart at a minimum.

As far as a three blade prop I would not go any larger than a 5X3 and that may be a bit too large for what you are doing.

With your setup with each motor facing a opposite directions the are already counter rotating with standard tractor props as far as the torque. Unlike a twin engine airplane with the motors facing the same way you do not need to use tractor and pusher props and counter rotating motors to offset torque.
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:41 AM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Just gave that some thought and your right both motors pull from the wingtip in and thats what I had in mind.Just waiting to hear back from Maxx Motors on those adapters Wing came out sweet.Going to run a safety chain and thru bolt it to both sides.When I get those adapters I can get to balancing.Thanks for the input. Nice to know that someone understands what I am doing.Apilotless lightweight version could probably be solar above the cloud ceiling with a backup battery?I'm going to add Roll over Sigorski as my Quote.P.S. Maybe an ultralight version?
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Old 10-16-2010, 07:43 AM
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Default RE: Electric Rotowing

Roll over Sigoski
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ORIGINAL: charlie111

Charlie Trying to upgrade this prototype!!
Roll over Sigoski
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