RCU Forums

RCU Forums (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/)
-   Unusual R/C (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/unusual-r-c-245/)
-   -   Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/unusual-r-c-245/11334326-tank-buggy-jump-jets.html)

Imbedded 12-17-2012 03:08 AM

Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
Hey RCU,

I'm completely new to RC, about the only experience I have is playing with remoteless toy cars that went around tracks and steered with rollers and used 2 AA batteries.
I wanted to make something that functioned alot like the Landmaster tank from StarFox, or the Mako from Mass Effect. Pretty much a tank/buggy like vehicle that could "jump" by boosting itself in the air with jump jets.

<div>Current plan: 4 wheels - differential steering (not ackermann)</div><div>4 props - individually controlled - so vehicles doesn't just flip over.</div><div>Optional: 1-2 rear props for boosting.

Basically sounds like a quadcopter + buggy.
</div>Ideas: (they're probably bad)
<div>1. Four motors, one per wheel shared with one prop when jumping.</div><div>pros: Ability to fully control vehicle on ground and in air. Possible good power, simple way to transfer power</div><div>cons: Weight, Have to switch between jump/drive modes</div><div></div><div>2. Two motors exclusively for wheels (one per side like a tank). Two motors exclusively for jumping. Still 4 props, but pitch control by connecting/disconnecting power to front/rear props instead of motor speed.</div><div>Pros: No need to switch between jump/drive mode.</div><div>Cons: Less power/control

3. Eight motors
Pros: Simple, Lots of power
Cons: All that weight?</div>

Zlash03 12-19-2012 12:07 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
1 Attachment(s)
Unfortunately, I dont think this is even possible. Ever.Theres simply to many things wrong or stuff you arent including in your idea.One bigreason this wont workis becauseyou want to basically make an R/C car "jump" into the air. Its simply really hard to do because of the sheer weight. Even a T-Rex 700 is only about 6 pounds. With all of the modifications you would have to do, it would make it an utter failure because of the weight. You didnt say what kind of car chassis you wanted to use either. The closest you will ever get to what you want is the thing in the picture below. And its BAD.

Sorry to ruin your idea but, whenever you get into something for the first time, you have to realize what your skill level is. If you have never even seen a hobby-grade R/Cin your life, theres a 100% chance you wont be able to do this. Theres alot more to the hobby than just throwing motors around everywhere. You need Transmitters and Receivers, ESC's, Props, Brushless everythings (Motors, ESC's), Servos,LiPO's, and LiPO chargers, Gyro's (not the kind you eat)...and a car. Your looking at way over $1000 and countless man-hours.

Imbedded 12-19-2012 03:56 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
But thats assuming I start with a heavy frame.<div>
</div><div>What if we start with a small quadcopter frame.  Then add two motors/two ESCs and some wheels?</div><div>No Servos (not using ackerman steering)</div><div>Don't expect the thing to hover in the air, getting it to jump is enough.</div><div>
</div><div>Don't know what a T-Rex 700 is, but why does it have to be that heavy/rugged?</div><div>
</div>

Zlash03 12-19-2012 06:00 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
Yes you can get a quad frame for pretty cheap but thats it. You need 4 brushless motors, 1 Brushless ESC, Some sort of gyro stabilization system, a receiver, a Transmitter (most likely a Spektrum), and 4 props.

Im actually thinking this is really impossible because you cant run propellers and wheel motors at the same time. You dont use 2 Motors either. You use one motor, a gearbox, and some dogbones. Along with suspension arms, hubs, hub carriers, and all that jazz. Basically you would have to use 2 controllers. 1 for the Propellers, and 1 for the wheels.

I just dont see how its even possible fabrication wise.

Imbedded 12-19-2012 06:16 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
Is 1 motor + gear/shafts really that much lighter? If I can, rather have it slightly more heavier and keep it simple.<div>
</div><div>And why can't I run a prop and wheel at the same time? If I go with 6 motors, they are all individually controlled.</div><div>
</div><div>Gyro + controls are no problem, using an ARM uC to make an automated interface. Aim at the end is to have this drive itself with some IR sensors, etc.</div>

Zlash03 12-19-2012 06:33 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
Im not worried about weight now. I dont know how to say it any more straight forward. It cant be done. I know how crushingly dissapointing it is when an idea you were planning doesnt work. Believe me.

The reason you cant run both at the same time is because the faster you make the throttle go, it will lift the whole Quad up and keep the wheels spinning fast, wasting the battery charge. Real life vehicles are A LOT different than Video Games.

My questions to you is how do you plan to mount the wheels and motors to a Quadcopter frame? Now suddenly you have experience in AI/Robotics? How did that happen? You didnt mention that before.

Im trying to save you from wasting time and money. Trust me. I have a real Quad and several cars ive been working on for over a year straight. Every day. Im not trying to be mean or insult you or anything. I suggest picking up a Hobby-Grade R/C car somewhere to learn about the hobby. I can suggest some for you if your interrested.

Imbedded 12-19-2012 06:46 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
I understand your doubts, but I don't understand the reasoning behind them.<div>I think you're assuming some things and not explaining anything besides "its impossible!"<div>
</div><div>"faster you make the throttle, it will lift the whole quad" Why? There are two throttles, one for the wheels, one for the props.</div><div>
</div><div>Mount wheels/motors to the quadcoptor-like frame (very important is the -LIKE part) by... glue? tape? screws? lol. How do you usually mount things to a frame?</div><div>And my experience in robotics happened over many years.</div><div>
</div><div>This isn't going to be some kit to assemble, its going to be custom made.</div></div>

Zlash03 12-19-2012 07:29 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 


Well I cant really say how to mount wheels to the frame because every time ive ever made or fixed something with wheels it had designated parts to put the wheels on. Screws, glue, and tape will get you no where.

With the 2 throttles I, myself either:

A). I dont understand it myself.

or

B). Its so complicated it cant even be explained.

Each channel for the receiver has a specific spot for each thing. (Motors, servos, lights, etc.) Having 2 receivers will get you no where except you would need 2 Transmitters to use the thing because you cant have 2 Receivers binded to 1 controller. It wouldnt work because the throttle would controll both throttles, not just one.</p>

Imbedded 12-19-2012 07:41 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
<div>If screws, glue, tape are not good enough then what the hell do you use to attach parts?!?!?!</div><div>Do you guys weld this **** on?</div><div>
</div>I never planned on buying a pre-made receiver/transmitter.<div>Either going to use wifi/bluetooth and a phone.</div><div>That or some really simple RF setup where the inputs are customizable.</div><div>
</div><div>Like I said, this isn't going to be anything close to a pre-made product you just assembly.</div>

Zlash03 12-19-2012 08:10 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
No, the cars have the suspension arms,  hubs and everything else. One little nut is usually all you need.

Imbedded 12-25-2012 06:24 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
Oh look...
bet this would be less complicated/lighter with just a simple wheel system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRvsm1W-5Ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sOvP9PhDQU

Zlash03 12-25-2012 08:01 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
Ok that's cool and all but as far as I know you can't just buy that. You would still need 2 controllers. Can you hold 2 spektrums at once? I sure cant.

Imbedded 12-25-2012 10:48 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
You don't HAVE to have two controllers.
You can have one. You think custom controls don't exist?

Its somehow impossible to control things without a pre-made control system?

Open your eyes, stop being so close minded.
People can control things with a simple bluetooth connection and their phone.<br type="_moz" />

Zlash03 12-26-2012 10:12 AM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
Do whatever you want. What I don't understand is the first line in your post says "I'm completely new to rc and have no experience." Yet you still have the audacity to argue with people who actually know this stuff. Just go back to Instructables.com and annoy them.

But seriously go to that website. What you are trying to do is way out of the realm of most people's knowledge of RC. You will get more help there than insults. (that is if you don't argue with them too.)<br type="_moz" />

Imbedded 12-26-2012 12:53 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 
"Completely new to RC" meant things like:
vehicle frame tips
Info on wheels
Info on different motors
Info on steering systems
etc etc.

I already have an ECE background.

I should have been more clear to the type of questions I was asking, but I also didn't expect that everyone went off all prebuilt kits...
<br type="_moz" />

harralk 07-17-2013 12:33 PM

RE: Tank/Buggy With Jump Jets
 


Since most threads in this forum are mostly dead anyways, I don't feel too guilty reviving this one.....</p>

</p>

If you're still looking to build this thing I've worked out the mechanics for a system similar to what you're looking for, at least the flying part.  I worked on a quad-copter-esque project a couple years ago which was roughly 18 inches in diameter with nearly 40 pounds of lifting strength.  The project changed direction before all the bugs were worked out, but I still have the design on my computer.  </p>

</p>

You say you have an ECE background which is great because my background is in ME with a control systems emphasis.  The flying part would require a second or even third-order control algorithm which I don't currently have the time to work out.  </p>

Also, as for the control part, you can check out this page http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...ntroller/posts which appears to have all the functionality you would need for this, just pair it with some RC parts and an arduino/microcontroller and you've pretty much got what you need.</p>

The Saylors 05-23-2016 02:53 PM

LOL this guy is either the funniest dumb guy ever or one of the best trolls i have seen in weeks. Very funny to read (talking about imbedded, not the others, they are able to think)


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:55 AM.