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  1. #1

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    Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service



    I am posting this as a service to anyone owning an Extreme Flight MXS-EXP ARF or any other Extreme Flight aircraft. You need to make sure you put Blue Loctite on all of the linkage bolts even though it is not mentioned in the manual. I lost a plane yesterday on the second fight because the elevator bolt just fell out. Don't call Extreme Flight to complain unless you wanted to be treated like crap. They will basically tell you that you are not a good enough builder and that is why if failed. Here is my story and the responce I got. I would love to hear your comments on who you think was right.

    On a side note: Has anyone spoken to a Curtis Cozier at Extreme Flight, he was very rude and wanted to know if anyone else had a similar experience or if I just caught him on a bad day. Also I am tring to get ahold of the owner "Chris", does anyone have his email address? Curtis told me he forward my complaint on but I don't really believe it.

    My Initial Email

    > Customer Service
    > My name is Doug Schaefer and I recently purchased a 48 inch MXS EXP,
    > (the new one in Blue) from a guy on craigslist.The plane was just
    > put together and never flown before I got it.I flew it the other day
    > for the first time and what a plane, super light, very responsive, I
    > was very impressed with its performance.I went out this morning on
    > my way to work and flew it again and again it flew great until about 9
    > minutes in.I was practicing a knife edge at about 60ft, when the
    > plane just turned and started heading right for the ground.It felt
    > like I had lost complete contact with the plane.It went in nose
    > first hard enough to split the lipo pack in two. When I got to the
    > plane I did some initial investigation but it was too hard to tell
    > what went wronge.I thought about it all day at work, I have had the
    > receiver for some time and it has always been reliable, the batteries
    > are new, I did not setup the speed control so I suspected it at first.
    >I just got home a little while ago and had a chace to start breaking
    > down the plane.I tested the receiver, motor, and ESC and they all
    > worked fine. I started to see if I could salvage the plane because the
    > wings have just two dents and the tail section is not even scratched.
    > Then I figured it out, while cutting off some loose monokote from the
    > tail I noticed the linkage on the elevator was not collected.The
    > entire bolt was gone and the control horn was in perfect condition.I
    > had checked all of the linkages when I was setting up my radio and
    > they where all fine.I would say that without a dought the assemble
    > came apart and fell out after two flights.I decided to look up your
    > instructions to make sure the builder did not miss something.The
    > instructions say "Thread the ball links onto each end of the pushrods
    > and secure to the servo arm and control horn with the 2 mm hardware as
    > shown in the picture." and this was done properly.
    > Here is my complaint, I went through this plane with a fine tooth comb
    > since I did not build it.I even looked through the manual and I felt
    > that the builder did a near perfect job per your instructions.The
    > problem is that your instructions are wronge.The instructions fail
    > to mention that Loctite should be applied on these type of connections
    > because they are not locking nuts.The connection lasted for about 20
    > minutes before it fell out.I have had wrecks in the past and will
    > have wrecks in the future but this one is really bothering me.What
    > bothers me the most is that you mention that Loctite is required for
    > build. You want the builder to put it on two items the landing gear
    > and the motor mount, if the instructions just said to put it on the
    > linkages I would not be in this position.
    > I would like to talk to someone in customer service, please call me on
    > my cell phone when you get a chance.
    > I attached a few photos of the wreck for you to see.
    > Thank you,
    > Doug Schaefer

    Extreme Flights Responce

    On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Extreme Flight R/C <info@extremeflightrc.com> wrote:
    > Thanks for contacting us.Our airframes are designed for intermediate to
    > advanced builders and pilots.
    > There is just no way we can cover every nuance of a build in our manual.
    > There are things that are up to the experience and knowledge of the builder.
    > Also any airframe can require regular inspection and maintenance.
    >
    > Thank you,
    > Curtis Cozier
    > 770-887-1794
    > Extreme Flight R/C
    > This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the
    > addressee(s) named herein and may contain privileged and/or confidential
    > information. You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
    > printing or copying of this e-mail, and any attachment thereto, is strictly
    > prohibited.
    >
    My Complaint to the BBB which they are not accredited with.
    I purchased a RC airplane (48 inch MXS EXP) from them and a part failed on the second flight.The control linkage on the elevator fell off causing the plane to crash.The cause is that the part probably should have had loctite on it.I went through the manual and it never mentions loctite on these parts although it does on several other parts of the build process.I wrote the company an email stating what happened and what caused the failure and asked them to call me to discuss further.Here is the responce I got back.
    "Thanks for contacting us.Our airframes are designed for intermediate to advanced builders and pilots.
    There is just no way we can cover every nuance of a build in our manual.
    There are things that are up to the experience and knowledge of the builder. Also any airframe can require regular inspection and maintenance."
    I was a little offended by the response since he did not know anything about my experience as a pilot or builder, so I called.Curtis answers and was immediately harsh and not very friendly.I told him I was a little offended by his response. My first question was if you expect your customer to be knowledgeable why even give them a manual?His response was that it was to cover minor details.I asked why you would want to cover little details when you told me I was suppose to just know to put loctite on that part?He said you are correct we will just stop putting manuals with our product, (in a very smart tone).I asked if he would send that to me in writing.He said no and the conversation went on like this for about 15 minutes. Not once did he ever apologize for my poor experience with their product, in fact he only got more unfriendly and so did I.
    In the end I told him that my purpose of the contact was to try and better their products so this did not happen to other customers and he told me that they never had complaints before.This push me over the edge and I called him some inappropriate names and we hung up.
    In summary Extreme Flight products do fly good but don’t expect good customer service if the product fails.



  2. #2

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    I'm sorry for your loss. but I know to use locktite on everything whether or not it's called for in the manual. Knowing this came from the same experience you had with a failure.
    I build for other people and have learned no matter how good the manual is there are always things I will change or add because I've learned the hard way.
    If you liked the way the plane flew get another and assemble it your way. Dennis
    DadstoysRC. I fly what I sell
    CD Vette City Big Bird

  3. #3
    vpresley's Avatar
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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    Hi

    OK so you are not the original buyer? Usually a warranty is good for the original buyer only. Although I sympathize with your situation, and loss of the plane. I have found that buying used planes from anyone, is an iffy proposition. You dont know what they did to the plane at all. A very detailed check, to include the clevises is in order on anything that another person built. You can never be sure of the quality of the work. As for the person you dealt with, I am not sure. Customer service is a 2 way street, its all about perceptions I think. As for bad mouthing them here, you might be a little premature in doing so. Do a little bit more homework and update this thread.


    Vince

  4. #4
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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    I agree, their manuals aren't geared towards beginner builders but then again, their aircraft arent trainers.

    Blue locktite on any metal threading into metal is a pretty common practice.

    Given that its an electric plane (hence very little vibration), my experience would lead me to speculate that you either have a bent motor shaft, out of balance prop, or didn't tighten the bolt properly to begin with. Also since experience is something you tend to get right after you need it, I'd also add that I fully inspect any airframe after its maiden flight for loose hardware.

    I've had nothing but spectacular customer service and have owned several airframes from Extreme Flight.

    I'll also add that if Curtis said he was going to forward your concerns to Chris, that there is no doubt in my mind that he either will or has already.

    Edit to add since I didnt read the entire original post at first:
    Since this is a pre-owned plane I would also be double sure to carefully and fully inspect any work done by the previous builder.
    Personally I'd be more agrivated with the first owner than the manufacturer.

    Andy - Helicopter Forum Moderator
    AMA 77227 Leader Member- Contest Director
    www.JaxRC.com

  5. #5
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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    I have to agree with the others, while it's unfortunate, this is in no way Extreme Flight's problem. If you bought the plane already assembled, it would be more the fault of the guy who built it
    Mike B. AMA# 42400 www.gettingairborne.com
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #2 - Waco Brother #188 - Cub Brother #2

    \"Those are my principles. If you don’t like them, I have others.\" - Groucho Marx

  6. #6
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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    Yes...Chris had read the email sent before I responded.....
    He responded while in China visiting the factory

    you also fail to mention when you called me a F...ing Douche... conversations rarely go well after that....



    also.. a clarification

    from your email..
    I recently purchased a 48 inch MXS EXP,
    > (the new one in Blue) from a guy on craigslist.
    from your post here:

    I purchased a RC airplane (48 inch MXS EXP) from them
    so no...you did not purchase from "us"


    I felt I was quite polite in my email and yes.. we assume that our users have a certain knowledge of assembling an ARF before using....
    No I did not know Your level... that is up to you to decide if you have the knowledge to move forward.


    I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Extreme Flight products.....
    and Yes we DO stand behind our products 100%
    Extreme Flight RC tech support
    IMAC Vice President|IMAC Sequence Committee|IMAC National Judging Instructor|Team Futaba|Extreme Flight R/C|2014 IMAC World Championships Contest Director

  7. #7

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    Doug
    I know it's distressing to lose a plane for any reason. A malfunction can somehow seem to shift the blame from pilot to the manufacture, but I'm afraid you need to blame the guy that pre-flighted the plane. Find a mirror[&o]
    Even if the linkage had a "Z" bend on one end, and the metal clevis can't turn, they still need to be blue Loctite-ed, as un-tight threads will wear with vibration and fail.

    This, and many other things, are part of the knowledge than is gained with time, experience and tips. The manuals can NOT cover everything.
    It can never hurt to have other well aged builder/fliers have a look at the workings before you fly.

    The only good thing that can come of this is, you have learned something.

    Here's another tip: Don't use Loctite on plastic, it will crack in time. Lots of guys have found this out the hard way on servo arms, control horns, engine mounts, heli frames..........
    Oooh eee oooh ah ah(the crowd) ting tang walla walla bing bang!(the plane crash)

  8. #8

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service


    ORIGINAL: exeter_acres


    you also fail to mention when you called me a F...ing Douche...



    Wow Curtis, I did not know you were of them.

    To the OP, In no way is this the fault of Extreme flight.

    One of the first things you do after the first flight of any RC plane is to go through and recheck the whole air frame and always use lock tite on anything that could vibrate lose, This is common knowledge that anyone putting a airframe together should now without being told.

    But as others have said sorry for your lose.

    Milton
    Contact Milton@rcextremepower.net
    Team RCeXtremePower.com

  9. #9
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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    Sorry but im not even sorry for his loss.Another typical boo hoo blame someone else.I wonder how he knew how tight to tighten the wing bolts when i doubt there are no torque setting in the manual.We have all lost models from the smallest thing.Man up and quit blaming others.

  10. #10

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    Blue Loc-Tite on metal to metal and Formula 560 canopy glue on everything else.

  11. #11

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    The electric airplanes have brought a whole new group of people into the hobby. They learn to fly the plane and that is about it. Anything after that is the manufacturer's fault. A preflight inspection might have caught something like that. An unknown used airframe should have everything on it inspected. Build manuals are only a starting point. After that paranoia should kick in, and everything suspected.

  12. #12

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    Too bad you had the crash. However, you are to blame. I have a lot of experience with Extreme Flight RC, have several of their planes which are outstanding and I have yet to have an in-flight failure with any of them.

    It is your responsibility to make sure all the linkages and moving parts are secure and this regularly. The use of Loctite or other methods to secure nuts (such as nylon lock nuts or even cyano) is a common procedure in our hobby. Whether their manual states it or not, for someone who is supposed to be at least intermediate there is simply no excuse.

    I had to deal with Extreme Flight for after sale issues a couple of times, and each time they were responsive, polite and gave me full satisfaction. The only time I was a little puzzled was when I sent them an email about an assembly dilemma I was having with the torque motor that came along with the 78" Extra and they told me theye were having problems with that power set anyway and offered me a refund or store credit. That's great, but I wish they had sort of reached out to all their customer who had bought that plane. They could have even pur a warning on their site if sending emails to all was that complicated. After all, I doubt they sold thousands of Extra 78" ARFs given it is a rather high end model.

    Anyway, I still think these guys are one of the best out there, not only in terms of the quality of their planes but also their service.

  13. #13

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    Words of wisdom, EC. Did yo fly EC or RC-121s? We had a bunch in Korat Thailand. On subject, a caring instructor and a couple of fiend mentors really helps in the RC learning department. I guess a lot of new-bees do not fly on organized club fields any more. He may not be a new bee, I don't know. It's tough to have to learn everything the hard way. Wallace Tharp, AARCs and Aux-6, Buckeye, AZ.

  14. #14

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    You create an account make one post and slam Extreme Flight about something you bought on Craig's List? How are they responsible? I think you need to get your money back from the guy that sold it to you

    Extreme Flight is a good, honest operation that makes fine products.
    The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

  15. #15

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    When I working there and read this I was amazed how this person thought EF was responsible.... It wasn't anyone's fault but the builder, period!
    Extreme Flight
    Aircraft International

  16. #16

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    I have not been on this is a long while and just saw a few post so I figured I would comment. First I was "bitter" when this happened, I lost a plane and was looking for reasons why it came down.   Here is the only important part of my story and it is the first line of my post "I am posting this as a service to anyone owning an Extreme Flight MXS-EXP ARF or any other Extreme Flight aircraft.  You need to make sure you put Blue Loctite on all of the linkage bolts even though it is not mentioned in the manual. "  The rest of my post was just because I was "bitter".  I am sure Extreme Flight is a fine company and Curtis just caught me on a bad day.  Moral of the story, put loctite on everything metal to metal even if they don't call for it. 

    On a positive note, I had mentioned that the wings and tail survived.  About 6 months ago I built a profile body and used the wings, and tail section.   I few it all summer and it files great.   He is a photo
    http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...1-12202748.jpg



  17. #17

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    There are times when these "warning" threads can be of some use, but I have to tell you, the only thing this warned me about is the fact you have zero idea about what your doing.

  18. #18

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    It's too bad to hear that.   Does it have a warranty?
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  19. #19

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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    I always check all screws on any rc vehicle before I run it, especially if its a offbrand, I had a tmaxx crash fullspeed into a curb because a throttle linkage screw came out and the throttle got stuck wide open, was it traxxas's fault? no it was mine for not putting a nylock nut on it, I used a regular nut. I learned my lesson
    Traxxas Tmaxx 3.3-WAAAAAY to much done to list
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  20. #20
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    RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

    Sounds as though you just want to lash out at someone. You need to take responsibility for your own mistakes and not blameothers. Extreme Flight and all the folks there have always been top notch, as have their products. You are at fault here, not Chris or anyone else. Extreme Flight ARFs are some of the best available and the experience of all my friends and myself is that their customer service matches the hight quality of their airplanes. John Cowart.
    Mike
    Douglasville, GA

  21. #21

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    I just discovered this ridiculous post online. Better Business Bureau? This guy has got to be kidding...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  22. #22
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    I have the next size up XPS and all those bolts have nyloc nuts so loctite is not needed. Be sure to loctite the servo arm screws if you use metal geared servos. My first plane was an Edge I put together from Extreme Flight and while double checking those control horn screws I did like I always do and give them a little tweak and low and behold the screw sheared off. Be careful you do not over tighten these screws with the nyloc nut it’s not needed it will not back off. A quick check at the end of the flying day or beginning will catch any slop that develops. Better yet I have ordered stainless socket head screws and nylocs and have replaced them. Not because it’s a problem but because I tend to over tighten these little guys. With the stainless I can snug them up without going Brutus on them. Perhaps the builder or you used just a little too much force and weakened the screw and it parted while in flight. There is nothing in the Extreme Flight models I have owned that are not sufficient to do the job. Very nice light weight construction. The support when I needed it was prompt and courteous. I showed up unannounced at their shop in Georgia looking to buy a plane and they scrambled to take care of me. Good shop good people in my book. You bought the thing second hand period doesn’t mater if it was never flown if you read their web site you would see as you are not the original owner/purchaser you are not entitled to a warrantee of any kind. I fact I know of no manufacturer in this hobby that extends a warrantee to anyone purchasing their products used.

    Dennis


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