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Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
I am posting this as a service to anyone owning an Extreme Flight MXS-EXP ARF or any other Extreme Flight aircraft. You need to make sure you put Blue Loctite on all of the linkage bolts even though it is not mentioned in the manual. I lost a plane yesterday on the second fight because the elevator bolt just fell out. Don't call Extreme Flight to complain unless you wanted to be treated like crap. They will basically tell you that you are not a good enough builder and that is why if failed. Here is my story and the responce I got. I would love to hear your comments on who you think was right. On a side note: Has anyone spoken to a Curtis Cozier at Extreme Flight, he was very rude and wanted to know if anyone else had a similar experience or if I just caught him on a bad day. Also I am tring to get ahold of the owner "Chris", does anyone have his email address? Curtis told me he forward my complaint on but I don't really believe it. My Initial Email</p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> Customer Service</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> My name is Doug Schaefer and I recently purchased a 48 inch MXS EXP,</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> (the new one in Blue) from a guy on craigslist.The plane was just</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> put together and never flown before I got it.I flew it the other day</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> for the first time and what a plane, super light, very responsive, I</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> was very impressed with its performance.I went out this morning on</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> my way to work and flew it again and again it flew great until about 9</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> minutes in.I was practicing a knife edge at about 60ft, when the</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> plane just turned and started heading right for the ground.It felt</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> like I had lost complete contact with the plane.It went in nose</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> first hard enough to split the lipo pack in two. When I got to the</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> plane I did some initial investigation but it was too hard to tell</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> what went wronge.I thought about it all day at work, I have had the</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> receiver for some time and it has always been reliable, the batteries</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> are new, I did not setup the speed control so I suspected it at first.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">>I just got home a little while ago and had a chace to start breaking</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> down the plane.I tested the receiver, motor, and ESC and they all</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> worked fine. I started to see if I could salvage the plane because the</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> wings have just two dents and the tail section is not even scratched.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> Then I figured it out, while cutting off some loose monokote from the</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> tail I noticed the linkage on the elevator was not collected.The</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> entire bolt was gone and the control horn was in perfect condition.I</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> had checked all of the linkages when I was setting up my radio and</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> they where all fine.I would say that without a dought the assemble</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> came apart and fell out after two flights.I decided to look up your</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> instructions to make sure the builder did not miss something.The</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> instructions say "Thread the ball links onto each end of the pushrods</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> and secure to the servo arm and control horn with the 2 mm hardware as</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> shown in the picture." and this was done properly.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> Here is my complaint, I went through this plane with a fine tooth comb</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> since I did not build it.I even looked through the manual and I felt</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> that the builder did a near perfect job per your instructions.The</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> problem is that your instructions are wronge.The instructions fail</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> to mention that Loctite should be applied on these type of connections</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> because they are not locking nuts.The connection lasted for about 20</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> minutes before it fell out.I have had wrecks in the past and will</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> have wrecks in the future but this one is really bothering me.What</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> bothers me the most is that you mention that Loctite is required for</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> build. You want the builder to put it on two items the landing gear</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> and the motor mount, if the instructions just said to put it on the</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> linkages I would not be in this position.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> I would like to talk to someone in customer service, please call me on</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> my cell phone when you get a chance.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> I attached a few photos of the wreck for you to see.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> Thank you,</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> Doug Schaefer</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"> Extreme Flights Responce On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Extreme Flight R/C <[email protected]> wrote:</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> Thanks for contacting us.Our airframes are designed for intermediate to</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> advanced builders and pilots.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> There is just no way we can cover every nuance of a build in our manual.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> There are things that are up to the experience and knowledge of the builder.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> Also any airframe can require regular inspection and maintenance.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> Thank you,</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> Curtis Cozier</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> 770-887-1794</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> Extreme Flight R/C</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> addressee(s) named herein and may contain privileged and/or confidential</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> information. You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> printing or copying of this e-mail, and any attachment thereto, is strictly</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">> prohibited.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">My Complaint to the BBB which they are not accredited with.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">I purchased a RC airplane (48 inch MXS EXP) from them and a part failed on the second flight.The control linkage on the elevator fell off causing the plane to crash.The cause is that the part probably should have had loctite on it.I went through the manual and it never mentions loctite on these parts although it does on several other parts of the build process.I wrote the company an email stating what happened and what caused the failure and asked them to call me to discuss further.Here is the responce I got back.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">"Thanks for contacting us.Our airframes are designed for intermediate to advanced builders and pilots.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">There is just no way we can cover every nuance of a build in our manual.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">There are things that are up to the experience and knowledge of the builder. Also any airframe can require regular inspection and maintenance."</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">I was a little offended by the response since he did not know anything about my experience as a pilot or builder, so I called.Curtis answers and was immediately harsh and not very friendly.I told him I was a little offended by his response. My first question was if you expect your customer to be knowledgeable why even give them a manual?His response was that it was to cover minor details.I asked why you would want to cover little details when you told me I was suppose to just know to put loctite on that part?He said you are correct we will just stop putting manuals with our product, (in a very smart tone).I asked if he would send that to me in writing.He said no and the conversation went on like this for about 15 minutes. Not once did he ever apologize for my poor experience with their product, in fact he only got more unfriendly and so did I.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">In the end I told him that my purpose of the contact was to try and better their products so this did not happen to other customers and he told me that they never had complaints before.This push me over the edge and I called him some inappropriate names and we hung up.</div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt">In summary Extreme Flight products do fly good but don’t expect good customer service if the product fails. </div> |
RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
I'm sorry for your loss. but I know to use locktite on everything whether or not it's called for in the manual. Knowing this came from the same experience you had with a failure.
I build for other people and have learned no matter how good the manual is there are always things I will change or add because I've learned the hard way. If you liked the way the plane flew get another and assemble it your way. Dennis |
RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
Hi
OK so you are not the original buyer? Usually a warranty is good for the original buyer only. Although I sympathize with your situation, and loss of the plane. I have found that buying used planes from anyone, is an iffy proposition. You dont know what they did to the plane at all. A very detailed check, to include the clevises is in order on anything that another person built. You can never be sure of the quality of the work. As for the person you dealt with, I am not sure. Customer service is a 2 way street, its all about perceptions I think. As for bad mouthing them here, you might be a little premature in doing so. Do a little bit more homework and update this thread. Vince |
RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
I agree, their manuals aren't geared towards beginner builders but then again, their aircraft arent trainers.
Blue locktite on any metal threading into metal is a pretty common practice. Given that its an electric plane (hence very little vibration), my experience would lead me to speculate that you either have a bent motor shaft, out of balance prop, or didn't tighten the bolt properly to begin with. Also since experience is something you tend to get right after you need it, I'd also add that I fully inspect any airframe after its maiden flight for loose hardware. I've had nothing but spectacular customer service and have owned several airframes from Extreme Flight. I'll also add that if Curtis said he was going to forward your concerns to Chris, that there is no doubt in my mind that he either will or has already. Edit to add since I didnt read the entire original post at first: Since this is a pre-owned plane I would also be double sure to carefully and fully inspect any work done by the previous builder. Personally I'd be more agrivated with the first owner than the manufacturer. |
RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
I have to agree with the others, while it's unfortunate, this is in no way Extreme Flight's problem. If you bought the plane already assembled, it would be more the fault of the guy who built it
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RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
Yes...Chris had read the email sent before I responded.....
He responded while in China visiting the factory you also fail to mention when you called me a F...ing Douche... conversations rarely go well after that.... also.. a clarification from your email.. I recently purchased a 48 inch MXS EXP, > (the new one in Blue) from a guy on craigslist. I purchased a RC airplane (48 inch MXS EXP) from them I felt I was quite polite in my email and yes.. we assume that our users have a certain knowledge of assembling an ARF before using.... No I did not know Your level... that is up to you to decide if you have the knowledge to move forward. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Extreme Flight products..... and Yes we DO stand behind our products 100% |
RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
Doug
I know it's distressing to lose a plane for any reason. A malfunction can somehow seem to shift the blame from pilot to the manufacture, but I'm afraid you need to blame the guy that pre-flighted the plane. Find a mirror[&o] Even if the linkage had a "Z" bend on one end, and the metal clevis can't turn, they still need to be blue Loctite-ed, as un-tight threads will wear with vibration and fail. This, and many other things, are part of the knowledge than is gained with time, experience and tips. The manuals can NOT cover everything. It can never hurt to have other well aged builder/fliers have a look at the workings before you fly. The only good thing that can come of this is, you have learned something. Here's another tip: Don't use Loctite on plastic, it will crack in time. Lots of guys have found this out the hard way on servo arms, control horns, engine mounts, heli frames.......... |
RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
ORIGINAL: exeter_acres you also fail to mention when you called me a F...ing Douche... To the OP, In no way is this the fault of Extreme flight. One of the first things you do after the first flight of any RC plane is to go through and recheck the whole air frame and always use lock tite on anything that could vibrate lose, This is common knowledge that anyone putting a airframe together should now without being told. But as others have said sorry for your lose. Milton |
RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
Sorry but im not even sorry for his loss.Another typical boo hoo blame someone else.I wonder how he knew how tight to tighten the wing bolts when i doubt there are no torque setting in the manual.We have all lost models from the smallest thing.Man up and quit blaming others.
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RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
Blue Loc-Tite on metal to metal and Formula 560 canopy glue on everything else.
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RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
The electric airplanes have brought a whole new group of people into the hobby. They learn to fly the plane and that is about it. Anything after that is the manufacturer's fault. A preflight inspection might have caught something like that. An unknown used airframe should have everything on it inspected. Build manuals are only a starting point. After that paranoia should kick in, and everything suspected.
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RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ular_smile.gifToo bad you had the crash. However, you are to blame. I have a lot of experience with Extreme Flight RC, have several of their planes which are outstanding and I have yet to have an in-flight failure with any of them.
It is your responsibility to make sure all the linkages and moving parts are secure and this regularly. The use of Loctite or other methods to secure nuts (such as nylon lock nuts or even cyano) is a common procedure in our hobby. Whether their manual states it or not, for someone who is supposed to be at least intermediate there is simply no excuse. I had to deal with Extreme Flight for after sale issues a couple of times, and each time they were responsive, polite and gave me full satisfaction. The only time I was a little puzzled was when I sent them an email about an assembly dilemma I was having with the torque motor that came along with the 78" Extra and they told me theye were having problems with that power set anyway and offered me a refund or store credit. That's great, but I wish they had sort of reached out to all their customer who had bought that plane. They could have even pur a warning on their site if sending emails to all was that complicated. After all, I doubt they sold thousands of Extra 78" ARFs given it is a rather high end model. Anyway, I still think these guys are one of the best out there, not only in terms of the quality of their planes but also their service. |
RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
Words of wisdom, EC. Did yo fly EC or RC-121s? We had a bunch in Korat Thailand. On subject, a caring instructor and a couple of fiend mentors really helps in the RC learning department. I guess a lot of new-bees do not fly on organized club fields any more. He may not be a new bee, I don't know. It's tough to have to learn everything the hard way. Wallace Tharp, AARCs and Aux-6, Buckeye, AZ.
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RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
You create an account make one post and slam Extreme Flight about something you bought on Craig's List? How are they responsible? I think you need to get your money back from the guy that sold it to you;):eek:
Extreme Flight is a good, honest operation that makes fine products. |
RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
When I working there and read this I was amazed how this person thought EF was responsible.... It wasn't anyone's fault but the builder, period!
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RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
I have not been on this is a long while and just saw a few post so I figured I would comment. First I was "bitter" when this happened, I lost a plane and was looking for reasons why it came down. Here is the only important part of my story and it is the first line of my post "I am posting this as a service to anyone owning an Extreme Flight MXS-EXP ARF or any other Extreme Flight aircraft. You need to make sure you put Blue Loctite on all of the linkage bolts even though it is not mentioned in the manual. " The rest of my post was just because I was "bitter". I am sure Extreme Flight is a fine company and Curtis just caught me on a bad day. Moral of the story, put loctite on everything metal to metal even if they don't call for it.
On a positive note, I had mentioned that the wings and tail survived. About 6 months ago I built a profile body and used the wings, and tail section. I few it all summer and it files great. He is a photo http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...1-12202748.jpg |
RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
There are times when these "warning" threads can be of some use, but I have to tell you, the only thing this warned me about is the fact you have zero idea about what your doing.
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RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
It's too bad to hear that. Does it have a <span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255);">warranty?</span>
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RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
I always check all screws on any rc vehicle before I run it, especially if its a offbrand, I had a tmaxx crash fullspeed into a curb because a throttle linkage screw came out and the throttle got stuck wide open, was it traxxas's fault? no it was mine for not putting a nylock nut on it, I used a regular nut. I learned my lesson
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RE: Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
Sounds as though you just want to lash out at someone. You need to take responsibility for your own mistakes and not blameothers. Extreme Flight and all the folks there have always been top notch, as have their products. You are at fault here, not Chris or anyone else. Extreme Flight ARFs are some of the best available and the experience of all my friends and myself is that their customer service matches the hight quality of their airplanes. John Cowart.
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I just discovered this ridiculous post online. Better Business Bureau? This guy has got to be kidding...
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I have the next size up XPS and all those bolts have nyloc nuts so loctite is not needed. Be sure to loctite the servo arm screws if you use metal geared servos. My first plane was an Edge I put together from Extreme Flight and while double checking those control horn screws I did like I always do and give them a little tweak and low and behold the screw sheared off. Be careful you do not over tighten these screws with the nyloc nut it’s not needed it will not back off. A quick check at the end of the flying day or beginning will catch any slop that develops. Better yet I have ordered stainless socket head screws and nylocs and have replaced them. Not because it’s a problem but because I tend to over tighten these little guys. With the stainless I can snug them up without going Brutus on them. Perhaps the builder or you used just a little too much force and weakened the screw and it parted while in flight. There is nothing in the Extreme Flight models I have owned that are not sufficient to do the job. Very nice light weight construction. The support when I needed it was prompt and courteous. I showed up unannounced at their shop in Georgia looking to buy a plane and they scrambled to take care of me. Good shop good people in my book. You bought the thing second hand period doesn’t mater if it was never flown if you read their web site you would see as you are not the original owner/purchaser you are not entitled to a warrantee of any kind. I fact I know of no manufacturer in this hobby that extends a warrantee to anyone purchasing their products used.
Dennis |
I have an MXS 48", been flown for almost 2 years now......
My first landing gear broke, and I sent pictures showing the defect........(Carbon fiber was much thinner than the landing gear on other 48 EXPs).......they sent a replacement out right away. |
simply amazes me:laughing my but of right now over this guys complaint"what a comic he must be, you bought on Craig's List? and then expect the supplier to make your screw up right,i know having been employed by a model manufacturer before what kind of fruitless complaints come in, take responsibility for your own screw up by trying to save a buck and taking the cheap route,,,you should be ashamed and beaten for lashing out at a supplier in this hobby that is,was,and no way responsible for your childish,cheap and lack of education in this hobby maybe you should have seeked help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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So you buy a used plane off Craig's List, you crash it (apparently because of a poor build since thread locker wasn't used on a bolt that subsequently failed because of the lack), and you have the gall to call out the company who sells the models new - in public no less? Moreover, you have the nerve to post this as a 'service' to others . . . seriously?!? Good grief - and no offense because I know this is RC Universe - but what planet are you from? I've been around RC for decades and never seen the likes of this vindictive bit of trash talking. You should be ashamed of yourself for trying to malign a small business owner for something in which he bears zero responsibility.
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