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  1. #1
    3DSAVAGE's Avatar
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    why don't many people fly 4d?

    ??? it's pretty much an abandoned part of rcu. like i postedhere a long time ago and no one answered and a lot of others did that too. so why don't u like this? once u start, u an't stop!
    too much power?YA RIGHT!!!!
    \"When flying low and inverted, down is up, and up is expensive

  2. #2
    exeter_acres's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    pain to set up... hard on batteries... very short flight time...hard on motors...
    more trouble than it is worth
    Extreme Flight RC tech support
    IMAC Vice President|IMAC Sequence Committee|IMAC National Judging Instructor|Team Futaba|Extreme Flight R/C|2014 IMAC World Championships Contest Director

  3. #3

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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    Backing up is not flying!

  4. #4
    3DSAVAGE's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    your point is...

    3d isn't flying either. it's just power and rediculous control throws.
    too much power?YA RIGHT!!!!
    \"When flying low and inverted, down is up, and up is expensive

  5. #5
    P-51B's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?


    ORIGINAL: 3DSAVAGE

    your point is...

    3d isn't flying either. it's just power and rediculous control throws.

    By definition ALL flying is 3-D...otherwise it would just be driving around on the ground.

  6. #6
    Rodine Air Force's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?


    ORIGINAL: exeter_acres

    pain to set up... hard on batteries... very short flight time...hard on motors...
    more trouble than it is worth
    I agree it is pain to set up and it takes a lot of practice too. But when you finally preform a nice inverted hover or a completely new manoeuvre, then all the trouble and effort is repaid. 4D is the most Challenging and the most adrenalin way of flying. You don't see many new 3D manoeuvres. Most of them is only new combination of old things. But 4D is an "uncharted territory". You can preform a completely new manoeuvre each time you go out flying. That is a great feeling too.
    Without a healthy fear of the ground

  7. #7
    exeter_acres's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    I know what you are saying......

    The first time I did a nose down hover, it was a HOOT!
    and it freaked some of the old timers out......


    Flying along, slowing down, then reverse flipping and going the other direction is fun too......

    but I could get 10 minutes of flight time with a normal set up, and only about 4 minutes with VPP....
    FOR ME, it just wasn't worth it for a few extra manuevers
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  8. #8
    773W's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    Well Ii can say ii gave it a try. I used a light foamy profile and the Hacker BL VPP. Put a lot of time into it ( mostly with trying to get the radio programed) only to be dissapointed in the end. All my falt for not beefing up the moter mount. all the pre flight tests passed but as soon as i tried it take off, the motor left without the plane[:-].Needless to say the VVP setup was toast.
    Racing is a sport......Building, repairing, and maintaining are hobbys.

  9. #9
    Rodine Air Force's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    Well I stopped counting how many vpp props I destroyed. I eaven maneged to fix a few of them. Now I bought a Mamo Upsidedown system which has all the mechanism behind the prop. This one will probably take a bigger impact. Building a plane with mid-mounted prop (like Nippel 4D or Arrow) is probably a more secure way to start flying 4D. I haven't flown a mid-mount yet, but in videos it looks a lot more stable, than regular 4D planes.
    Without a healthy fear of the ground

  10. #10
    773W's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    Well even though my first go at VVP was a flop, I'm sure I'll take another stab at it in the future. I was thinking about a mid mounted system cause I'v seen a couple of vidieos and yes, they do look a little more stable in the air. Not to mention they will take a hit a lot better.....
    Racing is a sport......Building, repairing, and maintaining are hobbys.

  11. #11
    cyclops2's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?



    If I want to be phiscally & mentally abused, I want a woman to do it with me. Not a reverse flying Canard.

    Rich

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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    because it's hard to fly and it's expensive. And i really don't see the point in going backwards with an airplane, unless your taxiing.
    !Signature your in it put, this read to time the took you If
    If the World didn\'\'t suck, then we would just fall off.

  13. #13
    773W's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    Well I think they can preform some pretty cool stunts, Im still workking on my next one.....I just got a E-flite VPP. Not only do I think they are fun and look cool, i enjoy the chalange of the build and i like having things that are just a little diffrent from the norm......
    Racing is a sport......Building, repairing, and maintaining are hobbys.

  14. #14
    GRANT ED's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    I was surprised the other day when I checked in here and saw how little traffic there was. 4D started with a bit of a rush but has faded away.
    He who dies with the most toys wins.

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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    I almost bought a 4D setup but a clubmate kindly let me have a few goes with his.
    Once the novelty wore off I very quickly got bored and so did he. He never brings it anymore though it's still uncrashed.
    The ghost of aviation, she was swallowed by the sky.
    Or by the sea, like me she had a dream to fly.

  16. #16
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    I guess the reason I never got into it is because they aren't availiable on bigger planes, and I just don't like how fragile the little foamies are. Seems like if you touch them wrong you break them. Just my opinion

    Austin
    May the fulfillment come from the journey, not the destination!http://faapiper.home.comcast.net/~faapiper/

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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?


    ORIGINAL: cyclops2



    If I want to be phiscally & mentally abused, I want a woman to do it with me. Not a reverse flying Canard.

    Rich

    Good one.

    I think 4D and heli gyrations are childish.

    Watch me be posting on both after I get tired of crashing Mustangs. Bill

  18. #18

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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    After flying with it a couple of times, the novelty really wears off quick. You have to hope there are some people at the field to watch you fly so you can impress them. Then they get bored with it too.

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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    Okay I'm a beginner so I really have no idea what people mean when they describe 3-d flying and 4-d flying. Would someone please explain that to me because I'm very interested because I keep hearing alot about it.

  20. #20
    3DSAVAGE's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    3D flying-
    High alpha flying done with the use of 2:1 power ratios and ridiculous control throws. Maneauvers such as hovering, harriers, blenders, rolling harrier circles, waterfalls, etc
    4D flying-
    flying backwards, backwards flat spins, nose down hover, etc done with the use of a variable pitch prop(VPP) with a special motor rig to allow power direction forward AND backward
    too much power?YA RIGHT!!!!
    \"When flying low and inverted, down is up, and up is expensive

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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    Hmmmmmm, okay so that does help explain to me a litlle what that's about (however I'd never heard of waterfalls, ect.).... Flying backwards with a plane? Wow, that's something I'd never heard of and when you said something like "switch throwing" I guess you mean those switches those you sometimes see on the top right and let of transmitters..... Okay, so I see what they mean when they refer to this type of flying as 3-d and 4-d but do you agree with me that those terms really don't appropriately fit the type of flying? Maybe I'm wrong but when I think of 3-d and 4-d I think in terms of mathematics (geometry to be specific) and so it confused me.

    You did pretty much clear most of it up for me and now I see why people are saying some of it's childish and will decrease your battery time because of all the high usage of the battery during flight. Even though it may be childish I'd like to one day get good enough at flying r/c helis to the point where I can make them start to do a nose dive but all at once stop and flip back up an spin around, ect. I think maybe the reason people started doing this is because they got so good at flying that they kinda got bored with conventional flying and they just wanted to push their limits. Personally, right now I just want my little Helimax Axe Cx Micro to work correctly so I can just fly it without it crashing to the ground! Hehe, as I stated in another forum I was having either transmitter or receiver problems and thus the servos spas out at any given moment and I have a limited range of usually about 15 feet! I'm VERY limited on what I can do for now until I ship it back and get the prob fixed but I can't wait to just be able to fly it normally for now ( and then I'll probably upgrade to a heli that will be able to perform these 4-d variable pitch maneuvers)

    Oh, and one last question- you described 4-d flying being done with the use of variable pitch prop (vpp)... Okay, is that specifically with helis or are you referring to planes as well? You said this is done with (vpp) with a special motor rig to allow power direction forward and backward. Wouldn't (vpp) be the motor rig that you're talking about? I say this because I know that from flying some of those flight sims some of the helis actually will go up when you throttle up and go down when you throttle down!( plus, if you ever fly upside down you're supposed to flip thatupper right switch, right? That way your heli wouldn't just slowly fall to the ground? I'm pretty sure that's what you're talking about.... If I'm right it would be like trying to explain that it would be impossible for a heli propellor to literally stop turning in flight all at once and then spin the other way immediately. Therefore, the pitch of the blades are changed instead of the direction of the motor to perform these acts. Well I think I atleast got part of it so thanks for explaining it to me and try not to think of me as ignorant because after all I am just a beginner and ALLof this is pretty much new to me. Thanks,
    grape

  22. #22
    3DSAVAGE's Avatar
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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    actually there are specific airplane designed VPP systems. They are basically just the tail rotor setup on helis adapted to a plane. As for collective pitch control on the vpp, it is done but hooking it with the throttle, like the idle up system on 3d helis(which i used to fly). So VPP is almost exactly like inverted flight with helis with idle up on full. From the 4D plane I flew, there does not seem to be a throttle for the motor, but the pitch of the blade is determined by the position of the throttle stick. Stick all the way back is full reverse. stick all the way forwards is full forward pitch. And anywhere else is any other pitch. It's a good system which eliminates the need for switch throwing. Hope this helps!
    too much power?YA RIGHT!!!!
    \"When flying low and inverted, down is up, and up is expensive

  23. #23

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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?



    Wow, it does help but I'm sure it'll be a good while before I'm doing anything like that!  I've had a blast going up to my local hobby store and flying their flight sim that they have there!  In fact, I'd buy that program for my computer but there's no way that would run on my p3 with no graphics card and minimal ram, lol.  What I do find interesting is how much easier my heli ( Axe Cx Micro) is to fly than some of the other helis that are on there!  I'm pretty sure some of those are set up (vpp) because well I've seen the owner of the hobby store fly that sim and perform some of those 4-d stunts that you had mentioned.  It's insane some of those helis that have more channels than 4, I'm not sure how many they have but I know this much- The second i get them off the ground the`y're literally trying to fall out of the sky!  You see i know that my throttle is a fixed angled proppelor and basically the further up on the throttle the faster the rotor spins hence the higher the heli will go.  However, I do have some knowledge of the differences between the way my heli flies and say like a 'real' helicopter.  IU'd always noticed that real helis, well their props seem to be moving at the same rate whether they're on the ground or in the air.... which got me thinking about this long ago so I went to the library and read up about how modern day helis fly.  Even though I've read the info over and over it still sometimes is a little too much for me to grasp all at once.  What I mean by this isn't exactly how it flies but the mechanics that go into the rotor (like the swashplate).  My Axe Cx Micro has a swashplate which lets me go forward, backward, strafe left and right and even though I don't have a tail rotor I still understand the mechanics of that, too (that's rather easy I think)......



    However, I saw on cable recently this special on helis and it blew my mind!  There was this guy who had specially rigged his heli so that he could perform many of the stunts that I think you decribed earlier(4-d)... He actually did a backflip and he said it took him like 9 tries because he kept chickening out at the last sec because well it was scary as hell!  He had to modify both his main rotor and the back rotor because he said that if he didn't the top rotor would literally chop the tail section of his heli in half!?!?  I didn't quite understand that but anyways it was cool to watch the stunts he did.  He said that his helicopter could do ANYTHING that ANY roller coaster could do and more!  I'd be scared out of my wits cause I don't even ride the wimpy roller coasters, lol.



    grape


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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    Now if you opinionated yo-yo's realy want to seee something crazy, look at 6D. Using a VPP with verical and horizontal thrust vectoring. Even if you don't add VPP to your plane a front mount motor with thrust vectoring is crazy. When you pull left rudder your engine turns 11-15 degrees.
    The same with the elevator. I have a 36" EPP Foamy with dual thrust vectoring. it is awesome to fly. Two ways to mount servos. One with a push push horn to the elevator and one to the rudder. The other is with 2 extra servos. these must be minimum of 9 gram servos because of the Motors thrust The are also best mounted on the right side and bottom of the motor mount. Have fun.

    Imagine how cheap flying would be if there were no ground.

  25. #25

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    RE: why don't many people fly 4d?

    I heard 7D was just around the corner. 6D is so 30 seconds ago.


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