Vertical3-D

My Feedback: (20)

yeah they dont seem to be around very much, but for 112 bucks shipped i figure its not a bad deal, it had CCPM but has a dedicated tail motor like on the blade CP, i also think the areobatic kit for the blade may work with it, Ill have to check, I just wish I could dig up some info on it before it gets here...I found a place that has all the parts for it easy enough though

joe_dejesus

My .02$ on DF #36:


First off, I have been flying for many years on and off.. I have owned many helis, nitro and electric in the years... I started out on
a green shuttle! (when they came out new) AMA# 128965 YIKES! Getting old... I am no expert, but can do basic loops and rolls and some inverted hovering...

I currently own a Trex SE and Dragon Fly #36.. I might not be able to perform monster 3D stuff, but experience in the years at least has taught me how to properly setup a helis mechanical systems..

The DF #36 out of the box will NOT FLY... but once setup, flies real well!

Items needing attention:
-Servo arms are not centered(or angles set @ 90 deg)..
-My 36 came with REVO ON, cannot have revo mix on a HH gyro...
-Centering tail slider while maintaining tail trim was somewhat hard, but possible.
-Motor power is fine for hovering and basic flight, use a pitch gauge to make sure you don't have too much pitch!
-Balance heli .. blades , flybar, tail blades ....


Not to mention if you have never flown a heli, (Even if heli flew out of the box) don't expect to charge batts and fly!
Your going to crash... Larger nitro helis will FLY (Hover) EASIER, compared to micros... due to size/stability
and not affected by wind -vs- micros.


With as 1350 3 cell, all else stock: Heli flies around (Forward Flight) real good..
Servo horns are way to short to be able to get more cyclic throws, so heli will feel docile (great for NOOBS)...
Motor doesn't feel like its going to catch on fire after a 10 minute flight (check your pitch range!!!)
Gyro holds tail ok (once you set it up right!)


Some feedback on gyro: (what I found on my #36)..


First of, my Tx had revo ON... causing drift and on/off collective tail not holding issues...

to setup tail/gyro try the following:

-turn off revo mix on Tx
-turn off gyro HH (swicth on gyro)....
-make your slider arm link and servo arm/link are 90 deg (Tx trims centered!)
-make sure tail slider is centered , has equal travel both ways on tail shaft...

-remove main blades
-be careful and wear eye protection.

-with blades removed place heli on a floor tile or something that does not create resistance to skids.
-hold heli by frame (watch out with flybar!) and spool up heli....

-to adjust/center tail, loosen center set screw and slide in or out the blade holder.
-the goal here is to have heli spooled up and tail holds heli in place without needed rudder trim.
-keep repeating this process until no trim is needed to maintain tail from turning left or right when spooled up.
-heli should be running (can be full throttle) with tail not wondering left or right...

-change linkages/servo horn position/slider position, to maintain everything 90 deg and tail slider centered!
AND when spooled up tail centered...

-tail slider should be able to move/reach both ends of the tail rotor, since heli radio/gyro is limited in settings,
to get more range, move tail servo link to outside hole on servo horn.. usually you do not want to do it this way,
but we need to work with what we have, and its not much...

NOW turn on HH on the gyro (switch on the gyro)....

you will see a good holding tail now... ohh don't forget to use locktight on set screws so it wont let loose while in flight.


I hope this helps someone...

consultjdm

Joe,

Great post.

Jd

hueyman

My Feedback: (2)

How can the tail slider be centered and the tailblade pitch offset enough to counter motor torque. When tail slider is centered - tail rotor pitch is centered (0 degrees). The only way I can see to adjust this is to change the length of the ball links to the tail blade holders. The links are not adjustable. What am I missing here?

consultjdm

Hueyman,

What type of Heli do you have?

JD

NVSFlyer

I really enjoy my beefed up 35. I got into this hobby after doing a bit of research not enough but a little, the 35 was a very cheap start for me to do nothing but spin it up and try to get it off the ground. The 35 for me was a great and very cheap learning curve. I never used the electronics except for the gyro for a few months then upgraded to a 401. As for Hueymans post on the tail rotor, I fought with mine for 2 and a half months until one day in the LHS I noticed a Trex sitting on the counter and looked how much tail pitch it had. Come to find out when I had installed my tail rotor blade grips I had them on backwards. I had the linkage ball on the trailing edge of the blade holder well I flip them around and put the linkage towards the front like the Trex and now I can do Piros like no ones busness. I've learned a lot from the past few month with my cheap 35 and sometimes in the next month or two I will take the 35 apart and put all my upgrades into a Trex. Here is a list of things I've done to my 35 over the past 5 months.

o Bought a Spektrum Dx6 and used the S75 for about a month....I knew nothing about radios and Freqs so this was a great deal for me. Since I knew nothing of helicopters and radios and suchs this was a easy way for me.
o Bought a belt drive system for it. After stripping a few gears all my fault but at the time I blamed poor design.
o Went through an ESC because I didn't know you can't use a Hi-Max 4200 motor with a 10 pinion and have it at 50 %....This is when I learned about throttle curves and using different pinions to allow for the motor to be at endurance without have the blades fling off. Burnt up the motor the next weekend because I had smoked it the weeks prior. Also learned about proper HS and how to figure it out.
o Then I went out and still couldn't get my heli to stop drifting so I thought was time for a good gyro bought the 401.....What a learning curve that was since I had the almost new Spektrum and trying to set it up wasn't easy for a noob....Now I can scream through the menus and have helped others setup there helicopters. As the same time I found out about Pitch curves and what Idle up was and Normal mode....
o At this point I'm flying and hovering with an acft I still have to use the rudder with since it won't HH very well. Max out pitch on the tail rotor. I know it has to have an easy fix but no amount of searching on the internet helps...So I just bare with it and keep going at it.
o Well I burn out and break the S75s that came with the Spekturm so go out and buy 3 HS65s I learn a lot about different servos and such in doing so. I also learn that the S75 weren't really broke hard it was just the final plastic gear that hooks to the servo arm is cheaply made and the reostat leg spins inside of the gear put a small dab of CA and now have good and extra servos.
o I'm now hovering with the helicopter but still spins slow to the left I'm working with it since I know it has to be something simple...This is when I find out I have the tail rotor blade grips on wrong....5 mins and now I'm hovering like crazy and even doing a bit of FFF.
o Do a little reading and see that people put longer blades on their helicopters to make them fly more stable I now have a set of 315s on my 35 and have no issues and I think anyone could hover my bird with very little trouble.
o After my first real life auto I had to replace my landing gear...Well a little bit of work and now have Trex gear on my helicopter...Ofcourse the reason for the Auto was another lesson learned...Not all Loc-tight is made equal...A pinion gear will spin on a shaft if you doing use the green stuff
o Next and latest mod is my Trex canopy that I moded to fit on my 35.

What I'm trying to get at with all the above stuff is that yes the 35 is a cheap helicopter but its still very nice to learn on since I didn't have to fork out 500 plus all in one day. I can now buy a Trex and use the servo's, Gyro, batteries and most of all my know how and have a very nice Trex. I can then put a 240 in the 35 and still be good to go with it.

I have to say this if I had a friend that wanted to get into helicopters I would send him straight to a Trex not because it is all that but because I can help him through the build and the do's and dont's....Most of us here learned the hard way and come this summer I'm going to be really happy when I get my Trex and that first day not have to worry about crashing it on spool up. I'm glad that Walkera makes cheap helicopters because if they hadn't I would never had gotten into RC Helicopters. It would just have been too big up front to do a hobby that I may or may not enjoy. I'm ok knowing that in the long run I will have spent an extra 150 - 200 dollars on the 35 specific stuff only but I now can let others that say hey is that hard to fly give it a try and bash a rotor up.

So for some to say get a Trex right off the bat and not be there for them at 8 at night during set up is a bit misleading. Like I said before anyone I know getting into the sport I will recommend the Trex but I also plan to be there for them during the learning process I hope people here do the same. I understand that the forums here have great read me but setting up that helicopter for the first time and seeing those blades hall butt can get a bit nervous if you're alone and do really know if they are too fast or not fast enough.


These forums have a great wealth of know how but it did me no good for the first few weeks until I found them.

Good luck and happy flying.
Nate.

credence

My Feedback: (2)

Good post Nate. I think you spelled it out well. It doesn't matter if you have a Walkera 36 or a Trex SE with the best equipment in the world. If you don't know what you're doing, you're gonna have a heap o' heli. If you don't have someone to help you out in learning things, Walkera is definately a cheaper way to learn.

consultjdm

Nate,

nice post,

Im sure you will keep flying the walkera also.

I love haveing many working heli'.

Cause I like to give them a rest between flights. so i gly one then another then another ant then the first is ready to go again.

Plus when one goes into the shop for repairs, its nice to have another to fly.

I agree The walkeras work. I got one after I knew how to fly. and so I have few problems with them, except I have had bad this or that at purchase, but once I get the replacements they fly okay. The Electrics are glitchy but for someone who can fly its not that bad, and even for beginners its a matter of luck, the expensive stuff glitches too though. So Learn on a walkera, I like my 22E and my #60.. the 660 is more stable but more glitchy. But for two or three hundered for a really good radio and receiver plus the price of the #60 its way cheaper than a showgun or trex for starting out. I think I'll go fly.

JD

hueyman

My Feedback: (2)

NVSFlyer, i noticed long ago that the stock walkera tailgrips are offset to the blades. The arm that the ball is on is not centered with the bladegrip slot. I did notice that installing them on the leading edge or trailing edge of the blade does make a difference. Installing on the trailing edge will not give enough travel in one direction before the slider binds - can't remember wether this effects nose left or nose right. Installing on the leading edge gets the tail pitch close to where it should be with the slider in the center of it's travel (not to be confused with center of the tail shaft) but then no way is the bellcrank at 90degrees to the tail boom as joe mentions:

-change linkages/servo horn position/slider position, to maintain everything 90 deg and tail slider centered!
AND when spooled up tail centered...

also, if the tail slider is centered between the tailcase and the blade holders (ball on the leading edge) , then the blade pitch is 0 deg. this will not hold the tail without input. the tail linkage will bind at the ball links when the slider is approx. 1/4" from the blade holders and 1/8" from the tail case. So, if you center the slider between those two points (center of useable travel), the tailpitch then becomes very close to holding the tail. However, this again positions the bellcrank so it is no longer 90 deg. to the boom or tail pitch control rod. I guess what i'm saying is, with the 35, you can't have both a perfect 90 deg./centered linkage setup and have the correct tail pitch necessary to hold the tail straight... I've tried. Mine holds fine but the linkages are not at 90 deg. in nuetral. BTW, one of my bladegrips developed a crack around the blade screw hole so I tried the 3dx tail grips for replacements (easier and cheaper to get). The ball arms are not offset like walkera so they are even harder to setup for a nuetral position pitch. If I've confused the *&#$$@ out of everybody I'll be glade to post pics of what I'm trying to explain. Just ask if interested. I do have to say that mine did and still does fly great.

Mike

NVSFlyer

Mike,

I understand perfect I've fought this forever and at one point thought that everyone else was wrong As for the grips I've modded up some Trex grips and they work great but once again they were a pain to get the tail to track again, but it's all part of the hobby and learning. The way I figure it is if I can get over this learning curve setting up a Trex should be pretty easy. A buddy came over with his MX400 Pro last night and we set it up in less then an hour. I'm not sure if it's just the 35 that has the problem with the blade grips but it sure is a pain if you don't understand how things work and everyone keeps saying line up everything at 90 deg and it just can't be done with the 35.

joe_dejesus

>>but then no way is the bellcrank at 90degrees to the tail boom as joe mentions:

come on guys, just get it as close as possible......
dont expect miracles on this low buck kit....

NVSFlyer

Joe,

By no means were we taking your post and picking it apart. Huey and I were just posting some extra stuff that not everyone will realize I know I didn't about the tail rotor blade grips. I wish I would have found a post like Hueys and yours 5 months ago I think I would be a whole lot farther in flying if I had.

hueyman

My Feedback: (2)

Same here Joe. I didn't mean to criticise your post. You've put out a lot of good setup info. As for tail setup problems, I'm going through it all over again with a venture 30 and 410t HH gyro. set it up per manual and it wanders. Tweak it off center and it holds great. the linkages and settings are way off from the manual but it works.[X(]