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FP heloCP blades on FP helo

Old 02-09-2006, 10:03 AM
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chris6414
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Default FP heloCP blades on FP helo

Anyone tried some CP blades on a FP helo? I know, you need angle of attack. I ask because I did it with a GMP Cricket that had metal straps that you could bend to either put in or take out pitch of the main blades to track them. I fitted it with some CP blades and when you had it set just right it worked pretty well.

I have a #4 that I have made some Aluminum straps that will fit in the fixed head. I have about the same angle of attack as the stock curved blades in them and know that head speed will most likely go up to achieve the same lift. I picked up some cheap carbons for a Hornet (225MM) and was going to try it once all my seperates get installed. I was just wondering if there are any engineers out there that could explain why this absolutely wouldn't work. I'm just having a blast experimenting with this little bird

Chris

New set-up will be:

Blue Arrow 10A ESC 3.3 KHZ LiPo compatible w/cutoff(Main)
GWS ICS 50Li for the tail
GWS PG-03 Gyro
Dionysus REVO mixer
Old 02-09-2006, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

In the mid 80's I had a Cricket, too. No gyro, wasn't easy to fly [8D]

Some of the PE flat bottom blades (slight pitch curve) come with plastic cams that you glue over the mounting holes (I use dbl sided tape) to add pitch and set tracking. Your idea should work fine if the blades are long enough (but don't hit the tail rotor), light enough and you can achieve head speed. Make sure the tracking is dead on.
I would like to see a picture of your straps.
Old 02-09-2006, 02:43 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

I'll try and get some pics tonight. The straps are Aluminum and singles not doubles like the cricket. They are aircraft grade so they should work well and easily adjust. The blades are cheap carbons but they don't flex like the stock dragonfly blades and weigh about the same. I also went to a 8T pinion on the main to lower the current draw and my stock blades were clipped 2cm. I may have to go to the 10T again to get the head speed up a bit It still flew really well with the 3S LiPo and stock blades but I figured seperates is the best way to go using that battery. I also made an Aluminum head stiffner for it. My wife can't figure out how I can spend so much time tinkering with such a little helo. I got a "that's pretty cool" outta her the other day when I did some FF in the front yard and landed in front of her. I think my fiscal year budget is safe for now even if it measure by the quarter![sm=greedy.gif]
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Old 02-12-2006, 09:19 AM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

Pic posted under edit mode
Old 02-12-2006, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

Helihobby and Like90 both sell blades like these. They're flat bottom all the way through, but the root of the the mount is twisted to create the angle of attack. They require a much higher headspeed to get the heli off the ground, consequently making it much more stable. The only problem i've found so far, is that because the blades are designed with the root fixed, there really isn't any way to adjust tracking that I know of. It's not like you can bend the roots like the stock plastic ones because these are wood. So you system might be better if it works. I included some pics of my bird in it's work stage so you can see.
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Old 02-12-2006, 03:12 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

sweet set-up.. It's not a Walkera anymore. Hopefully my seperates will be here this week. Still running brushed tail or have you gone to brushless?
Old 02-12-2006, 05:22 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

Is actually based on a GWS Dragonfly. Some parts are Walkera though .
I'm running a brushed tail right now, having alot of problems with it though. Looks as if I may need to upgrade to brushless to get proper performance [].
Old 02-13-2006, 07:21 AM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

I was going to do that as well. I had planned on upgrading my tail to brushless first. The brushed 370 is working pretty well so far. Heli-bobby has a good tail motor that would fit right in the DD tail housing. What problems are you having? Too much main and not enough tail?
Old 02-13-2006, 08:02 AM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

Can you guys tell me what you have for upgrade parts? I want to turn my stock setup to brushless, but don't really have a good idea where to start. Thanks in advance.
Old 02-13-2006, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

Has anyone done a brushless tail motor? I read before that a brushless motor might not be sensitive enough to speed changes to work well in the tail. They have a hard time running at low RPM. That's why you need soft-start programmed into your ESC on the main motor. Otherwise it'll kick the heli around violently when you start it up.
Old 02-13-2006, 01:56 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

My seperates are listed above except I changed my ESCs to a 300Li on the tail and a 480 Li on the main. They both come with heat sinks and the price was right. My mixer and gyro showed up today. I will eventually change my AM Futaba receiver(FP-R114H) out for a GWS pico when more funds arrive.

As for the brushless tail. Why not use the old GWS DD tail but gear it to keep the RPM up. Those tails let you run the tail geared or direct.
Old 02-13-2006, 04:31 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

I've got a brushless tail coming in the mail now. I hope it works. My current problem with the DD tail setup (with the exception of alot of heat because i'm using 3 cells, I can't see the motor lasting very long) is that I seem to be having reliability problems, this is more likely due to the ESC and not the tail (cheap GWS ICS50). I figured i'd may aswell just order the brushless tail and ESC instead of bothering with another brushed ESC. Throttle response on brushless motors relies very much on the quality of your speed controller. The jumpyness of the motor may or may not be a problem during startup. The rotors don't put as much torque as the stock ones do because they have alot less pitch built in, so this may help. The bird requires a much higher headspeed to get airborne, at which point the tail should be running at a good clip. It may spin a bit during initial spoolup, won't know till I test it.
I've got a Feigao 12MM IPS replacement for the DD tail coming, aswell as a castle creations thunderbird 9 ESC. Got both for about $50 from AllERC, not too bad.

As for what i'm running.
Align 430L on the mains with an 11T pinion
Align 25A ESC
GWS 6CH RX
Running a 3 cell, 1000 MAH LIPO
Gyro is a GY401 which I pulled off my bigger helicopter as it's just sitting there right now (winter stinks for flying )
Old 02-14-2006, 08:52 AM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

http://www.dionysusdesign.com/produc...products_id=56

Probably the best ESC for a brushed tail that I have found for the money. Operates at 75 KHZ and is programable! 37.5 times more efficient than the GWS ESCs and only twice as much money. The only other one I found better was on heli-hobby and that one operates at 100 Khz but for $80.

With mixer:

http://www.dionysusdesign.com/produc...products_id=55

No, I don't get a kickback, just passing good info.
Old 02-23-2006, 03:39 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

Brushless motor and ESC arrived today from All-ERC. Good service from them, was really well packed, came in a pretty big box, but i'm glad as it protected delicate stuff like a replacement main shaft and gear.

Will let you guys know how it goes, got the soldering iron warming up as I type this..
Old 02-23-2006, 09:33 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

Welp, first flights look good. Tail is holding well enough. Tail is VERY responsive. Heli piros extremely fast. Still trying to dial out some wag, gonna have to play with both gain and delay because tail motors aren't nearly as quick as a tail servo is. My ability to test is limited though because i'm flying in a very small and very cluttered area. Going to take it out to my garage tommorow and see how she handles. Arming the brushless tail ESC is a bit wierd if you're used to the original 4in1 boxes though .

On a side note, the flat bottom blades I was trying to run are no good. They don't have enough of an angle of attack to produce sufficent lift. The headspeed I need to get the helicopter responsive enough and off the ground would be downright dangerous. With the flat bottoms, at full throttle I can only get the bird into it's own ground effect. It's very stable, but theres no reserve power to climb out, and cyclic was very sluggish.

Maybe those carbon fibre MS blades will work well. Bit pricey though. I'm back to the stock blades for now. I'm going to try to iron out some of their AOA to increase the helicopters headspeed. With the current setup, the bird is airborne before I even reach mid stick, and it climbs like a mother! I'd like to get the bird airborne atleast around mid-stick.
Old 02-24-2006, 07:29 AM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

I tested my straps with CP blades and there was not enough headspeed to get it more than light on the skids. I tried to bend in more AOA but it did nothing. Back to stock clipped blades and bird will fly, but with my seperates and new skids, she is a bit heavier. I plan on going back to stock length blades due to the extra weight to get back some lift. I too want power to spare for pull outs.
Old 02-24-2006, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

gysgt6414, any chance you could give a more detailed shot of what you did? I'd be interested in trying it if it's not an overly complex mod. I've got more than enough power under the hood currently to allow for less pitch, solong as it's more than what the current FP blades I got are.

Also, with your method, is it possible to adjust the blade tracking at all?

EDIT: Nevermind, looking at your pictures, it looks as if you've just twisted small strips of aluminum to create the pitch, correct?
Old 02-24-2006, 11:24 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

I've got a new idea in the works for using flat blades. It will also allow you to precisely set the pitch of each blade individually.
Gonna set to work on it tommorow and see how it goes. God I love tinkering with stuff!
Old 02-26-2006, 01:48 AM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

Alright, now I think i'm just getting carried away...

Here is the latest incarnation of my "Variable Pitch, Fixed pitch Micro Helicopter (tm)"

I've utilized components from a CP head I had laying around. Essentially, i've rigged up a way to attach blade grips to the main head, aswell as rooting the original mixer to allow you to set the pitch of each blade individually simply by popping off the ball links and twisted them however times you need to achieve the pitch you want. As for how it'll fly, who knows. I suspect getting it to balance won't be easy. I'll let you know tommorow after I get off work on how it flies. All I know, is that now, my rotorhead is huge compared to it's original design, and probably alot heavier too, hahaha . I don't imagine this will work well, so i've still got my original head set aside just in case .
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:00 AM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

That looks wild but if it will balance, it'll probably work. Yeah the straps I used are similar to the ole GMP Cricket. You just bend in more pitch. With a Brushless motor and a 11-13 tooth pinion it would probably work well. The 370 motor just won't handle that king of gearing. I went back with stock blades and the stock 10 tooth now that I have my seperates working right.
Old 02-27-2006, 12:36 PM
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Default RE: FP heloCP blades on FP helo

This idea is a no-go right now. I'm having a hard time getting everything centered properly. It's difficult to cut thicker aluminum like that without the right tools. Ah, the things I could do if I had access to CNC and milling equipment!

Back to the stock head for now. Clipping the blades seems to have helped alot with the headspeed. It's flying fairly nicely right now. I was going to go out and take it for a spin today, but I got called into work early, so it looks like that's post poned for now!

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