Fixed Wing

Hey Tom, I'm balancing my Extra 330 and with no added weight or shifting of things it balances dead on at the center point of the wing tube. I'm certain this would be OK but your instruction sheet says to balance it at the front of the wing tube for the first flights. The instructions also say this plane has a fairly wide balancing area. How far back from the leading edge have you balanced this plane and safely flown? Do you agree I'm Ok with my balance at the wing tube center point?

BTW, I'm running a DA100 with stock mufflers and using one Hitec 5735 rudder servo under the canopy rather than two rudder servo's in the rear. I'm using a 4.5 " Tru-Turn spinner, 2150mAh NiMH 4.8V battery in the firewall area for the ignition, and two 1700 mAH NiMH 6.0V batteries with two receivers in the area behind the wing tube. I doubled the firewall, will be using the heavier wing tube, increased to 4.5" wheels, and have an extra servo for choke. All other flying surface servos are Hitec 5945 digitals. All up weight comes to just under 30 pounds which is what I anticipated. Thought you'd be interested in the weight which is why I described my set up. Thanks.

rctom

It should be fine where it is. I have not done destructive testing to see how far back I can go and still not crash, but I don't see a big change as I move CG around. Feedback would be appreciated.

Re: Weight, that's about where all of them come in. The plane can be built at 28 pounds but almost nobody does it, and there's no real reason to skimp on things, it flies great at 30 pounds. Adding more stuff like doubled firewall, heavier wing tube, etc builds weight in a hurry.

TF

Tim_Indy

You're right about the wide balance area. My 330 had a light BME 105 with cannisters in front with 5735 rudder servo on a pull-pull and I added 7 ounces of weight on the firewall to get 1/4" behind Tom's recommended point. I swapped in my new BME 110 Extreme in a couple of days ago, it weighed 6 ounces less than the BME 105. I was going to move the cg back a bit anyway, so I didn't add 6 ounces to compensate for the lighter engine. It flew great, just what I wanted.

rctom

So tell us how that engine performs. Inquiring minds want to know.

TF

Tim_Indy

Well, GREAT!!!! The performance is definitely stellar. Pulls this 30 pound plane out of a hover with authority using a 28x10 Mejlik prop. I was approaching 6,600 rpm using the smaller K&S cannisters, but am now swapping them out in favor of the big Pefa cans that Kris^ uses. Thanks for designing a plane that does have the room for one's choice of cannisters. The larger cannisters weigh 8 ounces more (per pair) than the k&S cans (pair). At 16", they are longer than the 10" K&S cans, and the header pipe will be 6 inches shorter than the K&S moving most of the additional weight forward. This will allow me to remove the 7 ounces weight I had on the firewall, so there is no net weight increase with the swap, and cg stays the same.

As the engine breaks in (not 2 gallons through it yet) I'm expecting to see the same 6,900 to 7,000 rpm Kris^ sees with his 110/Mejlik 28x10 combo. Show me that, and it'll LEAP out of a hover.

Yep, IMHO it was well worth the wait for this engine.

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Tom:
Just wanted to let y'all know that I finished up my 36% Extra.
3W-106, Johnson mufflers, Hitech 5945 servos for ailerons and elevators, 5735 on pull-pull for the rudder, HD 46 inch wing tube, Dubro wheels, pilot + instrument panel, Dave Brown spinner, Menz-S prop, two 2700 NiMH 5-cell packs for the receiver and one 2700 NiMH 4-cell pack for the ignition, 3 JR charge jack switches, B&B fuel tank and fuselage filler.

28.5 lbs on a calibrated scale....without wheel pants, but otherwise totally stock.

I'm very happy it came out this light considering the size of the airplane. I'm sure someone could remove 1.5 lb by throwing carbon fiber and Li batteries at it.

rctom

Glad to hear about it, and that weight is just about what it should be. Let us know when you fly it.

TF

astro

Thanks for all the input on the Wildhare 330 LX . Mine is coming in on the next shipment in March. Ordered the BME 110 ( hope in time, two month ago) and want to run Pefe cans also . Can some one send me the stock # they using and the header combo setup #? Would like to get this material before the plane come in to save some time. Also, any input on the setup of the fuse, does the cannister area have to be isolated from the rest of the fuse (heat)? I saw in a pitchers , some one wrap insolation around the cannister for the heat . Thanks ASTRO (:

rctom

As far as I know, tim_indy is the only one who has done it, maybe he will help.

You should not need baffling or insulation around the mufflers if you open up the bottom of the fuse so cooling air can exit, that's the way I have mne with no problms so far.

I finally got a photo of the bottom of my plane, it is below.

Tom Fawcet

rmh

Here is a simple setup -it keeps cool.
Also increased these cans from 60 mm dia to 70 mm dia types
- worked fine -
These are not tuned cans - they are high flow mufflers - very quiet.

Diablo-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Say DH:
Can you post a picture of the cans inside the fuselage?
I'm curious how much clearance you have in front of the wing tube and tank platform.
I'm thinking of using the 70mm diameter JMB cans also.

Mike Bogh

My Feedback: (14)

It would be nice if someone came up with a "louvered" cover for the cans/fuse like in the photo....interesting thought perhaps.

woodscra

My Feedback: (23)

DH:
I too would like to see your inside mounting the how your holes on the bottom of the fuse look. I am also considering the very same can setup and was curious if the 70mm would fit. What do the 70mm do for you over the 60mm? I know these are just canister mufflers so no power boost will happen.

Thanks

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

Where can I purchase canister mufflers?

woodscra

My Feedback: (23)

The only ones I am aware of are the JMBs you can buy at RC showcase. Those are the ones seen in DH's pic above.

rctom

My picture shows my plane with Pefa canisters which fit well. You can get them from Wild Hare or from Cactus Aviation or Aircraft International.

I've included some photos of one installation with these mufflers. I included a photo of themount that we sell with our header kit.

Tom Fawcett

woodscra

My Feedback: (23)

Tom:
Are those tuned canisters or canister mufflers? The A.I. website calls them "tuned canister mufflers" which does not make sense to me. Are those the medium or large size? Thanks for the great pics, much appreciated.

ernie58

My Feedback: (15)

I'm also interested in the size, and where you got that neat cannister mount?

rctom

The mufflers are the "medium" units from 3w/Pefa. I have no idea about the tuned part since I have not done enough testing to see how/if they are tuned. They have a long pipe inside the muffler which extends the header length, and they run great for me on my DA 100.

The mount you can buy from Wild Hare.

Tom Fawcett

Tim_Indy

I'm no expert, but here's my rationale regarding cannisters. You've got one class of cannisters whose main job is to quiet the engine. When using these, one would expect maybe up to a couple hundred rpm drop in performance over a stock muffler setup, but they ARE quiet. Then, you've got the "tuned" cannister class of which K&S and Pefa are two brands included here. Using close to the recommended header length, one would expect at minimum, a ZERO power loss over stock mufflers, while still quieting the engine. Get the header length correct, and one might even see up to a couple hundred rpm BOOST over stock (according to Dave at DA using K&S mufflers). Doesn't sound like much, but a couple hundred rpm on a 27" prop amounts to several pounds of thrust!

Tim_Indy

Here are some pics of my install. While Tom is using the Pefa "L", there is room here for the larger "LL" so that's what I'm using. A major advantage in using the BME 110X engine is that the engine with these HUGE cans still weighs 3 ounces LESS than a DA with stock mufflers! ZERO weight penalty in using cannisters.

I originally was concerned about having to put in a tunnel but Tom was definitely correct is suggesting that with adequate airflow, through the fuse and out the large exit, heat is NOT a problem at all. I've got a 2 ounce washer bolted to the side of the motor box, that's all I needed to balance it at the CG I wanted.

Tom's cannister holders ARE neat, though, aren't they. I did find it best to have a way to limit the pipe's backward travel. To give an idea of scale, the rearmost pipe comes within 1/2" of the wing tube.

I'm definitely happy, combo spins an Airwild NX 28x10 prop with ease (my favorite prop so far for thrust and quiet), I've got power AND quiet!

Tim_Indy

Couple more pics of my setup.

woodscra

My Feedback: (23)

Thanks for the pics Indy. Those cans are very long. Were you able to get the correct header length necessary for them?

Tom:
The MTW headers have 3 drop lengths, what is the drop on what you are using? What is the diameter of those headers?

Thanks

Tim_Indy

Craig, I'm just taking advantage of work that Kris Welters did sorting out his 110X. One of his "lessons" is at: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_14...tm.htm#1488452 . I'm using the same large 75cc cannisters he uses with his 110X in his 40% Extra.

More info is here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_14...tm.htm#1479865 . In one post here, Dick Hanson said in this thread: "A big can on a very short header just makes for a nice muffler - non restrictive - a couple of hundred over an in cowl setup is reasonable - ".

I'm not the guru, but I do know how to listen.

rctom

Craig:

Check with me tomorrow by phone and I'll give you the details.

TF