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LR-1 Pylon racer

Old 06-24-2005, 01:32 AM
  #26  
gixxer01
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

videovideovideo!!!
Old 06-24-2005, 05:29 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Sorry no video,
Best I can do for now is a maiden flight report on my glow version.

"Mystery" .36 engine, decided to use apc 8x7 prop, tached at around 16000rpm. 3lb-1 oz without fuel. Empty CG at 2 5/8 "behind LE at fuse (27.5% of MAC)

First take off attempt: Gee, its got torque! and why doesn't the rudder/tailwheel respond? Off to the left infield grass, nose over at slow speed.

Second takeoff attempt: OK,use a little up elev to keep the tailwheel on the ground until it picks up speed, hey! the rudder/tailwheel works much better. Nice and straight down the runway, very stable, climbs right out. A couple of clicks here and there and wow, this thing MOVES.

Flip switch to change flight mode for high speed. Opps, what the? Oh - have to re-trim for each flight mode. Glad I had lots of expo as my hands were shaking.

Everything trimmed out, a couple more laps, check the roll rate, ahh, easily manageble, my Funtana rolls much faster. Elevator response is very crisp. I can easily tell where the expo is becoming more linear. Some high speed turns with good amount of elev yanks it right around. (I should have been much higher for this, 'cause if it snaps into a high speed stall/snap, it would've been too low to recover) But happily, the plane just keeps on zipping by.

Oh, better check the low speed handling before the first landing. Get up high, pull throttle to idle, and the plane just slows down without any hint of wanting to snap over. Glide around a little bit, its pretty slow now and still very good control, no wobbling or anything.

Throttle up to half and fly around a bit. OK, time to set up some approaches. Wait a minute, isn't the plane suppose to slow down when I move the throttle stick to idle?? Hey! its speeding up to full throttle!! OK, lost throttle control, so something broke off or came loose. Great, I'll have to deadstick a maiden flight. Well, lets fly some speed laps... Man this thing can get small in a hurry. And you need to concentrate when it is coming at you because the frontal view is very small, and is easy to loose sight. Just have to relax for a second and it reappears again.

Whew, finally ran out of fuel, around 12 minutes on that 8 oz tank. Glides very well with the nose slightly down. Nervous twitch at touch down and I get a bounce, second flare gets it on the ground, slows down and noses over. Only a minor scratch on the spinner.

I have the landing gear mounted on the wing LE instead of the fuse, so I might move it up if I keep nosing it over. Its just a little tight with the MACS muffler/mini-pipe.

Found the throttle linkage solder joint came loose. It was an old throttle cable from my parts drawer.

WOW, WHAT A RUSH!!

I LIKE IT, I LIKE IT!!!
Old 07-11-2005, 02:08 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Any updates on an electric powered LR-1?
Old 07-11-2005, 10:47 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Electric LR-1 is almost ready. I just need to install the elev and rudder servos and hook them up. Everything else is done except for final balancing.
I had intended on running 3 TP 3S1P 2100 packs in 3S3P and as a second battery, 3 Maxamps 3S1P 2250, also in a 3S3P.

Well, I just got the new Maxamps 2250 cells and they are quite a bit thicker than the older ones. They are same length & width as the TP2100 but seems to be about as thick as a 4S TP2100. And they are heavy. For the Maxamps 3S 2250, they are 6.6 oz vs the TP 3S 2100 at 5.2 oz

However, Austin had posted on RCG that he is going to rate the new cells as 15C cont. and 20C burst. That would mean I only have to run 3S2P to be capable of 67.5 A cont and 90 A burst. and 13.2 oz compared to 3S3P TP 2100 at 15.6 oz.

I'm breaking in the new packs by flying them in my foamy staggerwing at around 15 A to 18 A draw.

Electric LR-1 wil fly soon. Should be pretty much the same as Cissarege (sp?) from Sunnyvale as I believe he is running the same Aveox 36/24/1.5 motor
Old 07-16-2005, 09:05 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Electric LR-1 flies and fries...

well, sort of, it melted the heat shrink off of the Phoenix 80 ESC.

I'd say the electric one is actually faster than my glow powered one. It is much cleaner without an engine and muffler hanging out in the breeze. The electric one is slightly heavier, so coming out of a dive, the electric builds up more speed and retains the energy.

Another flyer (speed freak and jet jockey) estimated the speed at around 130 or so. I wouldn't know...I was too busy flying...

Aparantly, retains too much energy for the landing. The electric just doesn't want to slow down. I'll have to get more flights on it to figure out how to slow it down for the landing.

VERY NICE PLANES

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Old 07-17-2005, 07:58 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Cool!!![8D] Glad to hear that it went so well. Did you happen to try any stall tests? How does it feel like the CG worked out, could it be moved back any? That might help slow it down a bit more for landing.

BTW, which prop did you fly it with and how many amps was that one pulling? Were you using the Maxamp pack or the TP?
Old 07-17-2005, 07:08 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Greg,

the CG seems really good at 2 5/8" from LE at fuse, just a touch of down elev when inverted. Stall was very mild (AUW 3 lb - 5 oz)

I'm going to try something that I've seen the Quarter 40 guys use, and thats a nose skeg/skid. They just touch down with the prop stopped and nose it over onto the skid. It seems to work well for them so I'm hoping it should work for the LR-1. I have no problem touching down softly, the problem is that it is still above stall speed and wants to lift off again if you try to get the tail down. With a skid, I'll just bump the plane onto the nose/skid and it should stop pretty quick.

What I need some suggestions is on the power system. According to P-calc, the Aveox 36/24/1.5 should be pulling around 65+/- amps with an APC 7x7 prop.

I ran a 3S2P of the Maxamps 2250 cells and measured 97.5 amps max static at 19700 RPM with the 7x7 apc. This is what worries me. I know the P-calc is just an estimation, but it is pretty far off. The motor seems happy at about 65 to 70 amps (approx 2/3 to 3/4 throttle) so I suppose I can do most of the flights at that setting and only burst to full throttle occasionally. I don't know if electric motors "unload" like IC engines do in the air, and if so, does the amp draw go up or down? Also, I keep reading about it not being a good idea to run the ESC's at partial power because it heats it up too much. But I'm not sure if this is for the really high powered guys or what.

I also checked the amp draw with the 3S3P TP 2100 cells and got about the same 96 amps max static, but the voltage dropped faster on the TP cells.

I picked up a 7x6 prop to use if the 7x7 is too much for the setup. But I liked the speed with the 7x7. I suppose a 7x8 or 7x9 would start melting and puffing things so I'm looking for suggestions.

Ciressarg said it right when he said that we need a 3s2P 100 amp continuous pack for this plane.

I'm not sure if I can go higher voltage and try to drop the amps a little. All my packs are 3S so I don't think a 6S1P would work.

Open to suggestions..
Old 07-17-2005, 07:37 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

You might try dropping the diameter of the prop to a 6.5 X 6.5 to lower the amp draw. I might even go so far as to try a 6 X 6. It's either that or switch the battery pack (more parallel cells) or use a motor with slightly less kV. I'd play with props 1st.

Have you any way to measure top speed? When playing with props it's more accurate to use measurements (radar, doppler, or measured and timed course) over the eyeball method.

In respect to the ESC, it harder on them running at part throttle at or near the max rating. If you can use the next higher rated ESC.

BTW, how was your motor and battery heating during the flight? I'll bet the battery was hot but how was the motor?
Old 07-17-2005, 07:56 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

I couldn't get to the motor since it was cowled in, but I didn't notice any hot or warm areas on the cowl. The ESC had the heat shrink melted so I replaced it with some heat shrink that I had laying around.

I increased the size of the cooling inlets and the exit hole as well as added a small dam in front of the outlet to create a lower pressure at the exit.

I hope to try again this week sometime.
Old 07-21-2005, 09:28 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Another flight report on the LR-1:

Glow version was again a goopy mess after a couple of flights. Nothing new there.

Electric Aveox version. OK, I think I finally understand the ESC rating when they say rated for 80 A continuous, 120 burst.

I think I fried the P80 ESC today. Hopefully it was just a thermal shutdown, but it still wasn't working when I tried it just before leaving the field. And it had that smell of burnt electronics [:@]

I flew one flight with the apc 7x7 and the 3S2P Maxamps 2250 cells. Everything was REALLY HOT! The batteries were at 168 F, this is after a minute or two to walk back to the pits and take the wing off, so it might have been near 180 or 200 up in the air. It melted a couple of small holes in the heat shrink on one end of each 3S pack.
The ESC was around 140 but showed no signs of distress.

I flew another flight (half hour later) using a apc 7x6 prop and 3S3P TP 2100 cells. This setup still drew 97A initially then settled at 93A .
Here is where I learned what the ESC rating means.
I flew mostly at 1/2 to 5/8 throttle, and only burst to full throttle for maybe 3 times at 10 seconds each time. I thought this should be OK with the Phoenix 80. WRONG!

I think that when I propped the system for 93A with the 7x6, even at partial throttle, the ESC will still "effectively see" the full load of 93A. I had read that several times before, but then I couldn't figure out why the ESC is given a burst rating then?

I think that the BURST rating means that the ESC is ok to run at the higher Amp rating ONLY in burst mode. ie: 10 seconds on, then completely off for the ESC to cool down, then 10 seconds on, then off, ,etc.

Should I treat the battery discharge ratings the same way? Burst rating is only for burst mode of on and off, NOT running the pack at 15C then burst to 20C, since if I proped for 20C, the pack will "see" 20c even at partial throttle.

I had been running it at partial throttle of, lets say 60 A, but the ESC was still seeing 93A, so after the second flight, it gave up and died in the air.

I landed the deadstick ok. No damage to plane.

So for other than BURST mode, I must match the ESC to the maximum amp draw. I guess I have to go looking for a P125 now if I want to run this thing at speed. I think 3S3P of the Maxamps 2250 cells will be ok for 100A continuous (at around 20 oz. batt weight) or get the Prolite 3S3P pack.

At least it was fast. Several pilots watching both the glow and elect. versions fly all agree that the E version was faster. Both have same pitch props, 8x7 for glow and 7x7 for E. although the Aveox spins faster than the glow (19700 vs 16500 for glow) and the E version has less drag.

Speed is FUN (& $$$) but my learning curve is just getting off a flat line
Old 07-21-2005, 10:56 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

I think the only way you'd get by with 20C on a LiPo is if it was hanging out in the air. I have an F-18 that draws ~42A and the 3S 5,000 pack is ~130deg after 5 min and I put back about 3,000 to charge it. That's 36A average. It has some cooling too. I'll bet your pack will not last long.
Old 07-28-2005, 12:51 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Anyone have one done with a rear exaust? The only engine I have that will work is a rear and I don't really wanna buy another engine for this.
Old 07-28-2005, 01:17 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Rear exhaust should work fine. It'll take a little more work for the motor install. You'll have to cut out enough clearance from the cheek cowl for your header and then fiberglass a piece of 1/32 ply or something to button up the hole and tie the structure together.

The wing is not in the way of a mini tuned pipe so you're good there.

This plane flies really sweet as long as it is not overweight. The electric versions over 4 lbs showed bad stall characteristics.

You should be under 3 lbs with the MVVS.
Old 08-07-2005, 11:18 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Well I just CANNOT get this thing together straight for some reason [:@] Ive never flown a plane so small as this one and im a little worried about a few 1-2mm mis-alignments....should I be?
Old 08-07-2005, 11:49 AM
  #40  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Misalignment of what? Some things are critical, some are not.

More info please.

TF
Old 08-07-2005, 12:11 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Looks like the landing gear mount isnt centered with the pre-drilled wing bolt holes and one of the ailerons MIGHT be closer to the fuse by 1/8th of an inch or so....doesn't really look like a future problem, but you never know.
Old 08-07-2005, 09:15 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Well....my .26 broke the con rod bushing, just like the two before it....right on time. [:@] I think my gp42 would be perfect for this plane.
Old 08-08-2005, 01:11 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Just ordered my LR-1. How much beefing up did you have to do to make the mount work on the front of the cowl? After seeing how clean yours looks I am thinking electric for mine.
Old 08-08-2005, 11:21 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Tim, the engine mount that Tom provides will fit up to a .32 size engine. I only added a 1/4" spacer to set the prop washer at the front of the cowl.

The kit comes with another engine mount that Tom suggest not using (he thoughtfully provides another one). I used a pencil tip soldering iron to push out the installed blind nuts. The firewall did not need to be beefed up for my .36 heli engine.

If you go to a .40 size engine, then you will need to check the fit of your own engine mount. You'll need to mount all rc gear in the tail to balance out a .40 size engine.

The glow version will definitely be less expensive as the electric versions that have good performance are all at at least 1000 watts of power.

I think a OS .32 or similar will make this a great fast plane. Not like a Nelson powered Quickee but still fast.

If I had a Jett .40 or a Nelson .40, I'd put it in there just to push the envelope of the plane.
Old 08-09-2005, 09:03 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Airbike, how do you think that little .42gp would do in it?
Old 08-09-2005, 10:59 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Mathyoo, if I only had the GP.42 , then I'd go ahead and install it using the smallest .40 size engine mount I can find.

The GP.42 is not exactly a speed engine, but it'll fly the LR-1 pretty fast if you can balance the plane. I'd try a 9x7 or a 9x8.

The good thing about installing the GP.42 is that later you can drop in a good SPEED .40 engine for some REALLY fast flying without re-doing the engine mount.

I'm on the look out for a used Jett or Nelson quickee engine (as long as it has a carb, I don't want to fly full bore all the time)

I'm figuring that if my electric version is flying ok at over 4 lbs, then I can go to a .40 glow even if I need to add a couple of oz to the tail to balance.

IMO, the LR-1 is a pretty stout airframe overall. The wings don't take crash loads very well, but seems to hold up fine in the air.
Old 08-10-2005, 01:36 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

One thing to always remember on electrics...use a speed control higher than your expected maximum amp draw , in other words leave some "head room" . The Phx. 80 is rated for 80 amps continuous with FULL AIRFLOW , so always be sure to mount it in the airflow or right by the cowl opening if you are running 70 amps or more. The Phx. 125 is designed more for the fast pylon planes drawing 80 to 125 amps ,but it still needs lots of airflow ( like any other speed control ). I would love to get one of these since I have a Hacker B50-8S with a 3.8:1 planetary gearbox on it, but I already have too many planes as it is ! I hope Tom doesn't bring any to the Denton Swap meet this Saturday so I won't be tempted to buy one !!

Rick
Old 08-10-2005, 04:18 PM
  #48  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

ORIGINAL: ronin8451

... I hope Tom doesn't bring any to the Denton Swap meet this Saturday so I won't be tempted to buy one !!.....
Why did you have to go and bring that up? I had just convinced myself that I didn't need another plane and then this.....
Old 08-18-2005, 12:22 AM
  #49  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Hello Airbike,

Just ordered a racer today and will start collecting the motor, controller and battery set up. Do you like your Aveox motor?? I'm thinking of using the 125 amp Castle controller with 2 3200 20C Koham bats in series for power. The only problem I see is that I am at the top end of the amps on the controller and both batteries weigh in @ 21 oz....what do you think??

Ed
Old 08-18-2005, 02:03 AM
  #50  
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Default RE: LR-1 Pylon racer

Hi Ed,

If you want to make your LR-1 electric powered, I'd suggest you take a look at the following threads over at RCG. Lots of info as to what people have already tried.

Here's a link to one of the discussions:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380211


and a link to the other discussion:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374453


You didn't say what Kokam batt you are using in series. How many cells for each pack? Are you planning on 3 cell voltage or 6 cell voltage? ie: 6S1P or 3S2P ?

Anyways, I pushed my Aveox too hard and I had to send it back for repair. I think the high voltage and lower amps method is better for this application. Running 100 amps for 5 minutes is pretty hard on things [&:] A couple of guys are having success with a Mega 22/30/3 and 6S2P with 2100 mah cells, and apc 7x7 prop. I think a Phoenix 80 will be fine at 6S voltage and 45 -50 amps.

Joe Ford at Castle Creations is putting together a LR-1 and he is going to use a 12S setup with a custom wound motor. Probably with the new Phoenix HV 45 ESC

I had 7 flights on my glow powered version today and it is a very good flying plane. My glow powered version is about 50 oz w/o fuel and can land very slow.

My electric version was flying at 65 oz and you have to be careful when the wing loading gets high.

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