P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

Are you saying that the guy who had the pin should pay for the plane that got shot down even though the one that got shot down was at fault!?!?!?!

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

Courtesy wise. I think it's a matter of courtesy that you get the pin before you fly whether you're the only one there or not.. Isn't that showing courtesy to the other members of the club? Even though you're there first you would be the cause of the situation and it could lead to the person with the pins plane being damaged or the other person being hurt as well.

This isn't for flyintiger, i don't think he has an issue with this but I'm very suprised to see the other view...

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

No I am not.

What I'm trying to get across is that some common courtesy, a little effort in open communications, people working together as friends and as people that share the same interests, could easily prevent this type of occurrance. All it takes is just a tiny, tiny bit of concern for others rather than just yourself! What I'm hearing though is an unspoken "I have the pin so too bad for anybody else". If you reduce it down that's essentially the message coming across.

What I have observed is that it appears more people are more concerned with meeting "technicalities" than they are with their personal ethics. Although the rule has been met by obtaining the pin, a little looking around with a question or two reduces or eliminates the potential for loss and danger to others.

Compare the situation with some traffic laws across the country; Town intersection and you are waiting at a red light for it to change. It turns green and you note that a car coming from your right had just entered the intersection against the yellow light but has not cleared the intersection yet. You proceed anyway and have a collision with the car that proceeded on the yellow light. Could you, having the green light, be found liable for the accident? Of course you could since you had the ability to prevent it simply by being aware that another car was present.

Here's another; You're flying at a location that's relatively near an airport, say within 6 miles or farther, but you have been assured by the people at the FAA, in writing, that your airspace has been cleared for the period you will be flying and no one will be using it but you. You're on a long final approach with a dead engine when a full scale helicopter enters your area and begins to hover in your flight path. Do you abort the approach and likely crash the plane, or do you continue the approach because you have been "guaranteed" the airspace? Yes, I know that common sense dictates that you abort the approach, but the premise of the arguement is the same. The "leve of importance" should not make a difference in the decision. Do what's right, not just follow the rule.

Hopefully people will stop and consider things a bit and understand that the same situation could happen to them with just a moments slip if they are the only one at the field when they arrive. If that was the case, would you want the next people arriving after you to be thinking safe? What if the location, like this one, was not a formal club field? How about a dry lake bed where everyone just gets together? What about that local farm field where the owner grants permission to fly for anyone that flys R/C?

Was the "rule" developed just to say "thou shalt not fly unless you have the frequency pin", a "rule" for the sake of rules, or was the "rule" instituted to assist in the prevention of shooting down another plane? Could this particular incident (and others similar to it) have been prevented by only one person, or two? Since the first fatal part of this incident had already taken place, could the second person, through just a little foresight, have prevented it? The bandstand I'm on says the fault was a shared one.

All I've been trying to get across is that each and every one of us bears a little responsibility to the others at any given flying site, and that everybody should expend a little effort to ensure safety and promote a better flying experience for all. It's not all that hard to do. That's all I have to say about it. Sorry about redirecting your thread Albert.

Pat Roy

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

I have to disagree... I think that you're being discourteous to everyone else by not getting the pin. Just like you say "All it takes is just a tiny, tiny bit of concern for others rather than just yourself!". That works both ways... All it takes is a second to grab the pin, showing just a little courtesy for everyone else that might show up, and all of this could be avoided... The very attitude that you're saying is rampant among everyone else is the very attitude that you have. It's really about courtesy for everyone else first and then the act of following the set and agreed upon rules that the club has established.

For example, your quote of "I have the pin so too bad for anybody eles". You have the same attitude! You're saying "I don't have the pin and if anyone shows up they should check with me to make sure I'm not using that frequency.... If you don't, you're not being courteous"

I'm not saying that you should never check, that's not the issue. If everyone was curteous, you shouldn't have to check! But if you don't get the pin and go fly then nothing justifies it, you're in the wrong...

If there's no pin board then that a different issue altogether..

Dangerous Dan

My Feedback: (1)

We can all learn something from these threads.

It takes two pilots to power up on the same frequency at the same time.

#1 Always use the frequency board even if you are the only one at the field.

#2 Use common since and common courtesy. If you go to the field where somebody was flying without their card being up, ask what frequency they were on before flying...Dugh

#3 Once I have obtained my pin and ensured that the number of pilots and the number of pins marked roughly matches. I will look up and watch the planes flying while I turn on my radio to see if any of the planes go into failsafe. Then and only then Do I fly.

my 0.02

FlyinTiger

My Feedback: (45)

The revamped and improved frequency board is up. Wow, now we have to do some major field maintenance to get the flying site up to par so the board doesn't look out of place. I am ready for the flaming arrows at the field, I know people aren't interested in change, but if we're going to use this frequency board it needs to be in good repair.

The numbers on the pins are small, only about 3/8" tall, but the numbers on the board remain a large 2-1/2" tall. We don't tell others what frequency we're on by the number on the pin we have anyway. My wife and I decided we would get the AMA charter updated at our field too, so we are able to have an event there once in a while...

...this is going to make the retired guys who fly there angry as they don't want anyone new coming around. They don't enjoy the company of new young people flying, only fly one at a time, and frown upon other people showing up on their day at the field (Thursday mornings). I let them have their day and avoid going out there on Thurs. mornings for now, but sometimes that is my day off for the week. One step at a time I suppose.

By the way, no one has signed up on the "work day" clip board now for a week and a half besides my wife and I. She's running the grill and I'm heading up bringing the tools and will be there doing work as well. Go figure...

*errors again...I'll have to upload those photos tomorrow when I can get to a PC.[]

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

The problem with posting is that quite often the reply can sound much harsher than intended. [:'(] I was just trying to say that just because someone gets to the field, gets there pin, goes to startup and finds that someone else is on that frequency that didn't get the pin doesn't make them 'dis-courteous'.

I've been the first to the field before and didn't grab the pin (usually I do though). If I would have been shot down it would have been no one's fault buy mine!!! If i don't have the pin, i land and go and get it so that there's no safety issues and to be respectful of the other fliers..

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Wow[X(] I agree that we disagree.

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

bluemagic98

I bring my own pins That realy messes them up.

FlyinTiger

My Feedback: (45)

[8D]Well, I brought out my own pins...to revamp the board and share with my flying comrades. We washed all the bird poop off the board, cleaned out the plexiglass pockets, painted up some new clothes pins with flourescent orange, put nice readable numbers on them, then sealed them off with epoxy clear. These pins should outlast the board, easily.

Like I said, I'm ready for the firey darts of hatred...people don't like change, or someone trying to improve a process. We'll see what happens. After a week of the new board being up I'll report back with my "experiences."

Much has been learned here and, in a small way, I am glad this happened now when it did.

Edit: I think as each person that flies at this site takes on some small project to make the field better we'll all be more careful to take care of what we have. It is such a privilage to be able to fly model aircraft, especially on a military installation.

P.S. those white things at the top are to keep the birds from pooping directly onto the board...maybe a cabinet is on the list for another project? I like the idea of a cabinet because if it is closed (which it shouldn't be if someone is flying) then people will know that nobody has grabbed their pin yet. Someone mentioned "opening of the field for flying" and that makes a lot of sense. These forums are great for people out flying at remote sites like I am. It gives me a way to touch base with other modelers and learn.

Redneck Shaun

My Feedback: (1)

Very nice job on the pins. I think I can see them from here . Good call on the defected bird poop. Nobody likes a slick pin . We have a enclosed box and it works pretty good. It's a old weather proof load center(breaker box) from a house. It opens up when when we need to use it. And the door can be closed and locked to protect the inside when we are through.
Great job on yours though
Shaun

FlyinTiger

My Feedback: (45)

The guys were actually happy the board has been revamped...of course they all "were about" to do the same thing...rrrrriiiiiiight.

What a relief.

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Amazing how that stuff works, isn't it?

One of the fields I fly at has had a problem with out of control planes coming through the pits for years. I made several suggestions to the membership to place a barrier stop in front and it was always met with the usual poo-poos of how the issue really isn't bad enough to warrant the expense. I guess while I was gone one of the clubs' old timers almost had a plane hit and now that barrier is a hot item.

Aerohead

My Feedback: (37)

Great job, FlyinTiger. Those frequency boards look nice. As long as everybody uses it, it should be pretty safe.

rbuhrman

My Feedback: (8)

Great post there dntmn.....

I never really thought about it but I am in the habit of watching the planes that are flying when I first turn my transmitter on. (after securing my channel on the board of course) It's just habit.....I even make sure all planes have a bit of altitude when I turn it on just in case.....
I also regularly ask guys what channel they're on just as a courtesy and extra safety precaution.

Our board does not have pins, just a channel-number on a transparent slot that holds your AMA card....works very well, easy to see who's got what.

I think we'll be better off if we generally assume that things are likely to go wrong, rather than assuming everything will always be OK....

-rb