R.J. Rose Ocala FL

Barry -

What Lou is saying is about the same as what I measured. However, I believe when he says engine is centered on the cowl, this means the prop drive not the position of the mounts relative to the center of the firewall. As additional info, I built a couple of Aeroworks 29% builders kits and I shorted the right fuselage side 3/16" to build in a right thrust angle. That worked out perfectly on that particular model. So anything around 1/4" would seem appropriate.

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Thanks for the info guys! I'm gonna modify mine to have more RH thrust. It just doesn't look like enough to me. I'll have to plug and redrill the firewall...but better now than after the maiden and then have to do it.

Thanks
Barry

greyhound man

My Feedback: (5)

Couldn't you simply shim one side of the standoffs with washers to achieve the desired RH thrust? IF it was only off a little I would try that first before going through the troubles of remounting and all.

R.J. Rose Ocala FL

Shim washers are a REALLY BAD IDEA for mounting a DA50. The standoffs want to be flat against the washers and create a large torsional stress on the engine tabs that interface with the standoffs. These tabs can ultimately fail requiring replacement of the crankcase. DA instructions warn against this procedure.

A better solution is to use a tapered shim. Carefully matched shim stock from LOWES or Home Depot will work, but they are very soft and will compress rather quickly. You may want to try saturating them with thin CA to make them harder. The best tapered shim is made of hardwood or birch plywood sanded to a taper. This is not easy, but beats tearing out the firewall.

TheFoxes

My Feedback: (2)

Cut two identical hardwoood wedges from 1" boards that taper from 3/16" thick to 1/16" thick, over a length equal to the distance between the outside edges of your standoffs. NOT THE END GRAIN. Table saw would work best, but a bandsaw or even a miter box will do. Drill. CA in place on the firewalll. Net gain 1/8" right thrust. Little hassle.

ff

rctom

Why don't you just fly it first?

TF

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I agree, fly it before you change anything. I hate fixing things that ain't broke yet

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

I'm down to mounting the throttle servo, choke rod (I'm using a manual choke), mount my reciever and batteries and balance. I might get it done this evening. I'm hoping to fly it on Friday. This is a right nice looking airplane. I have a new DA50R on it so I'll have to tinker with that just a bit but I've found once I get a reliable idle I will fly it. Won't really need to break it in on the ground.

Anyways, I'm very close. I'll post a picture and give my all up weight as soon as I'm done.

Thanks.
Barry

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Regarding the use of right rudder on take off and an up line. It's not possible to set an engine thrust angle that will provide correct thrust angles for all conditions. About the best that can be done is to establish a thrust angle that suffices for most conditions, or one that minimizes the amount of rudder required during maximum torque conditions.

Engine torque and propeller "P" factors change appreciably with changes in rpm, angle of attack, and lift. Propeller diameters and pitch also have an effect that will be different between sizes. Up lines and down lines will forever require different amounts of rudder correction for this and other reasons. Even full scale propeller driven aircraft have this issue, especially during take off. Bear in mind that a nose gear plane requires less rudder during a take off than a tail dragger due to the longer moment between the main and steering gear pivot points. This makes a tail dragger even more susceptable to engine torque. To design a tail dragger with enough right thrust to balance out take off torque would leave you with a thrust angle that would be ridiculous for normal flight.

In both of the Edges I have had I did not note any need for excessive uses of rudder for any part of my flying. Personally I would not chnage anything and simply mix out differences between what you want and what you have. The use of rudder is a mandatory skill in 3D and IMAC and one that can't be avoided.

R.J. Rose Ocala FL

Barry -

I believe all DA's are run at the factory. At least mine smelled a bit of gasoline when I got it. I had to lean the low end almost a half turn, but left the high end a bit rich for the first couple of gallons. I flew the first flight with the cowl off to ensure that the idle was reliable and once satisfied flew with the cowl on. Later, I drilled a small hole on the side of the cowl which allows access to both needles with a very small and long screwdriver. There didn't seem to be any cowl effects on the mixtures. Follow DA's instructions on gas/oil mix and you will have a great running and super reliable engine.

R.J. Rose Ocala FL

One minor clarification to Pat's explanation of torque and "P" factor. The only variable to these (given a constant engine and prop) is RPM. The others change the effects of torque and P factor. The biggest thing that changes the effects is airspeed. He is absolutely correct that every set up is a compromise and that rudder control is essential to precise flying. I don't use mixes at all (except for flaps) because I subscribe to the "purity" theory of flying for development of my admittedly mediocre skills. This leads us back to the basic issue - right thrust angle. The design intent is to mitigate (not eliminate) the effects of torque and P factor and to create a compromise that is least affected by changes in RPM/thrust. Others have advised you to fly "as is"; that's probably a good recommendation, just not one I would choose for myself.

dredknot

Hello Guys


Wanted to give my 2 cents about the new edge and the TOC 53 and add some pics.

I did my first flight on Sunday,was an afternoon full of action but little flying.
First of all we couldn't get the engine to run,it just was not getting enough fuel,after about 2 hour we found a little hole in the fuel tubing.
So on with the hatch,cowl,porp,spinner and try to rush my fight,BAD Idea never rush the first flight, i think i forgot to really clear out the engine,
Which lead to a dead stick about 80 feet up,I think i'm in troulbe.

To land up the field mean ruff and hard bush which would lead to holes in my wings and fuse,it's what i should of done,but no, i had the great idea to turn for the strip.which means down wind.
As soon as i came around she started to sink like a rock,the elevator was set for a first flight and would not answer at all,she was on her way down nose first ,not given up i went to 3D rates and 15 feet to go, i pull hard to my surprise she level out and again once more with about 5 feet to go she hits the ground with a loud bang.

After all that i still missed the strip and found same grass
I would never of believe you could get away with what i did and have a plane with so little damage,to me a hand of full 3d elevator with no air speed and going down wind should of lead to a dead dead model .

This is one tuff Plane believe it or not there is not much damage to talk about.
Bent gear and small crack on the rudder from the nose over.

What eles can i say,the TOC seem to be very powerful,very quiet but most of all easy to start

I love wild hare,i think i would have a had time buying form anyone eles.

Thanks Tom and Patty for another Great model
Tom thanks for the bolt for my spinner

dredknot

Here are some pics

OverTheEdge

My Feedback: (1)

Ok... this is driving me nuts. [>:]
I just ordered the edge 3m53 combo.. should be here in a day or so... Somewhere I saw in here a post saying that all that's needed for standoffs with this motor combo is 4 pieces of 1/2" plywood about 1" square. Atleast I think I saw a post saying this... can someone confirm this for me????
Thanks

dredknot

sorry guys,i have no idea where my pics wen too,they were unloaded but seem to be missing in action

dredknot

test for pics

dredknot

more pics

dredknot

two more

dredknot

two more

OverTheEdge

My Feedback: (1)

Dredknot,
What are your standoffs made of and how long are they????

mwhar760

My Feedback: (18)

where can i get a throw meter that is in degrees the instructions from web site are in degrees and the 3 meters i have are in inches??

dredknot

they are an inch,no sure what type of wood it is but i found it in the dowel area at the hardware store,it's very light not made of the same wood as the other dowel i have seen

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

Don's Hobbies and Central Hobbies both carry a fairly simple degree meter.

Barry Cazier

My Feedback: (17)

Concerning my thrust angle or lack of...I ended up taking the plywood standoffs I had made and grinding them with my dremel to create more RH thrust. I estimate I now have about 2* RH thrust. I just don't think it had enough before. I compared it to my Yak and AirWild and Cap and it clearly didn't have as much. I just felt it didn't have enough RH thrust so I changed it.

I measured my elevator throws tonight...I got 72* down and 58* up. Should be great for inverted flat spins. Seems I always get more down than up, not really sure why. I haven't measured the ailerons yet but they are "plenty". I don't worry so much about them. Rudder throws are about 58* each way. That should be enough also.

I'm building a throttle servo mount in the center of the of the fuse and up high. That should be the easiest place to line up with the throttle linkage on the DA.

Thanks
Barry

kjfaulk

My Feedback: (5)

Are you guys having to saw off some of the tips to the brisson pitts muffler to get the cowling on?
I put my muffler on and there is no way the the cowling is going on with out cutting the tips down some.
Any suggestions.

Thanks