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Could not start NIB YS115S

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Old 07-28-2011, 09:36 PM
  #1
HookedOn4S
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Default Could not start NIB YS115S

Just got a NIB YS115S

Invert mounted on a Pilatus, ready for 1st engine run.

Set high end needle to be 2 turns out. Left low end at factory default.

Motor started the engine, and started very well. Happily waited for a while and then removed the glow started. Engine stopped.

Attempted to start the engine again. This time, I could not the the prop to complete even one revolution. My starter motor could not get the engine to go pass the compression stroke.

I removed the glow plug to check for hydraulic lock -no fluid, no lock.

Reinstalled the glow plug, attempted to spin start again. Same outcome, it just would not go pass compression stroke.
My starter motor spinned 91 and 110 without issue. Tried another started motor. Same outcome.

Checked for hydraulic lock again - no fluid, no lock.

Putting the glow plug back, I turned the prop using hand. Could get the engine to complete compression stroke, smoothly, no unusual sound from engine.
Fuel tank was pressurised. But it felt tighter than my 91 and 110S. I noted fuel trickled from carb.

I removed the glow plug, motor spin the prop without the plug in the engine. No issue, the prop did complete the revolutions.

I put the glow plug back, and removed fuel lines and high end needle completely from engine, still could not get pass compression stroke using starter motor. Hand, no issue.

I am tempted to send it back to the store immediately. I am wondering if there is any thing else that I should try before doing so?

cheers
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:24 AM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

Just to be clear, are you saying that the engine will go through the compression stroke if you pull the prop by hand but not with the electric starter? Will it spin over with the plug removed? If that is the case, it just sounds like good compression. I have noticed that the new 1.15 does seem to have a lot more compression than the 1.10S did. I had to use a geared starter on a big battery to get mine going the first few times I started it. You might try a stronger starter before you send it back.
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:15 AM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

Sounds like it has higher compression that the old 1.10 or .91. If you can pull it through by hand but your sarter will not turn it then it very well may be you need to try a gear reduction starter. Does anyone you fly with have a gear reduction starter you could try?
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

Hooked on ??

Come on guys, treat that sweet thing as you should. Take it out of the plane and install on a engine test stand. Remove the NV and blow out. Pull and clean the regulator with care. Return all parts back to factory settings. Double check the fuel lines and check valve. Follow the manufacturers start up and break in manual to the letter including fuel. For first run, start with a chicken stick. Remember she is a virgin and will reward you with TLC!! ENJOY
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:57 PM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

Dear still4given,
"engine will go through the compression stroke if you pull the prop by hand but not with the electric starter". Yes.
"Will it spin over with the plug removed?", Yes, both by hand and by starter.


Dear all,
Thanks for all the pointers!!! My current starter already is geared down and is good even for a DZ160.
Anyways, I will attemp with a loaned bigger starter. Hopefully it won't break the piston shaft :-)

cheers
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:27 PM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

I think the 115 started the first time because the rings weren't quite seated in the bottom on the ring groves in the piston or there was some lint somewhere around the ring so the compression was down. That changed quickly, didn't it? If you happen to be using a wood prop, there is less mass (inertia) to help it go through the top of stroke. It's good you checked for hydraulic.

Could the DZ160 be down on compression????
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:16 PM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

One or two things may be over-looked: does the starter battery charged? The rubber cone can exert enough friction?

Also, when engaging the rubber cone on the starter to the spinner, make sure the spinner is clock-wise turned until it is stopped. At this position, the starter can spin extra half turns which help overcome the compression.
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:27 PM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

Two strokes hydro-lock pretty easily because of the design. It is much tougher to get a YS 4 stroke to hydro lock. I would wager that hardly any fuel came out of the golw plug hole when you turned it over with the plug out. The 1.15 just has a lot of compression. Try turning the prop clockwise as far as it will go be fore engaging the starter. You may need to let the starter rev up and then stab it onto the nose cone to get it to go through the first revolution.
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:01 AM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

I know a lot of guys who use starters and I carry one in my field box for occasions where an engine wants to be stubborn, but I RARELY use it. If your 1.15 is that high on compression and it is able to be pulled through by hand why not just use a chicken stick and backflip it to get it started?
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:10 PM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

Hi Pete,

I will attempt backflip.

I started flying with an e-starter. I have never done backflip before, but I have seen some people at the field doing it at times, so have a general idea.

Thanks again!
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:12 AM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

This is from the YS 1.15 manual. A lot of guys miss step 4. It will help a lot getting the engine primed well. Especially if you are going to back flip it. After pouring some fuel into the carb and before you connect the glow driver, close the throttle and pull the prop through a couple of times to disperse the fuel. Then I would turn the prob counter clockwise until it is against the compression before flipping it clockwise. That will give the prop a turn and a half before it comes up against the compression and fires. That way your hand/chicken stick is is well out of the way.

START-UP
1. Remove tube(B) from the filter, remove tube(A) from the check
valve, then fill the tank.
Caution: If tank is filled or under pressure ,remove tube(A) first,
then remove tube(B). Fuel will eject if tube(B) is removed first
while the tank is pressurized.
2. Open the needle valve 1 1/2~ 2 from the fully closed position.
3. Open the throttle about 10% from the idle position and slowly turn
the propeller ten turns. This primes the system by pressurizing
the tank and sending fuel to the carburetor.
4. Pour several drops of fuel into the carburetor.
5. Close the throttle to the idle position and connect the glow plug
cord. The engine is now ready for starting.
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:16 PM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

It will be difficult to add drops of fuel to carb when the engine is installed inverted.
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:21 AM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S


Quote:
ORIGINAL: nonstoprc

It will be difficult to add drops of fuel to carb when the engine is installed inverted.
Mine are all inverted. You have to turn the plane upside down. The carb intake leads right into the crankcase so if you turn the engine over a couple of times before you flip the plane back over, it will not leak out as the intake hole will then be at the top of the backplate. I do this frequently for the first starting of the day. It is easier than you might think. I use an electric starter, but if I had to back flip it, I would probably prime it every time. Would certainly increase to likelihood that it would start on the first or second flip.

Blessings, Terry
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Old 08-04-2011, 07:30 AM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

Mine never want to start easily on the first start of the day because the carb is dry. My method is as follows: 1st option - borrow someone's electric starter (I don't own one). Second option: Open throttle, hold finger on exhaust port, and flip about 20 times until you hear the squishy sound and you get the fuel drip from the exhaust port. She normally starts in 3-5 flips after that. Don't forget to drop the throttle first. I did that a few times and it scares the s#@& out of you! Subseqent starts of the day are usually on the first flip with the chicken stick.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S


Quote:
ORIGINAL: bigal126

Mine never want to start easily on the first start of the day because the carb is dry. My method is as follows: 1st option - borrow someone's electric starter (I don't own one). Second option: Open throttle, hold finger on exhaust port, and flip about 20 times until you hear the squishy sound and you get the fuel drip from the exhaust port. She normally starts in 3-5 flips after that. Don't forget to drop the throttle first. I did that a few times and it scares the s#@& out of you! Subseqent starts of the day are usually on the first flip with the chicken stick.
Why would you cover the exhaust on a YS? There is no exhaust pressure to the tank. I'm curious.

Let me jump in here since I usually hand start my YS engines and this is how I have been doing it for years.

I set my prop up so that when I turn it backwards up against the compression stroke it is at 4 or 5 o'clock so when I backflip it with the chicken stick the stick will slide off as it kicks against the ignited fuel and run in the proper direction.

1) Without attaching the glow driver open the throttle to the full open position.
2) Pull the propellor through 10-20 revolutions to build tank pressure and prime the engine.
3) Close the throttle to idle and pull the engine through a couple compression strokes.
4) Turn propellor backwards until you start to feel compression.
5) Attach glow driver and use chicken stick to back flip propellor backwards against the compression stroke.

The engine should kick the prop forward and start.
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

Petec,
good question. Don't know why I put my finger on the exhaust. Old habit I guess. I'll try without. I usually stop flipping when I feel a little fuel coming out the exhaust. This way I know the combustion chamber is wet. Other than that, I use the same method that you do. Works great. These engines are a breeze to start once the fuel gets up to the engine. My tanks are all on the CG so the fuel has about a foot to travel on that first start.
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:45 AM
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Default RE: Could not start NIB YS115S

My 115 was very tight when new and was hard to turn over with glow attached. Infact I burned a few fuses in my starter trying to start it. See if the starter will turn it over without the glow starter attached. If it turns over freely then it's just trying to backfire when you start. I had to use the soft start feature on my glow starter to allow the engine to spin up before heating up the glow plug. After run in the engine runs a treat. If the engine's left alone without running for a while it is a little difficult to start, but a little fuel in the carb solves that problem straight away.
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