Tipover

My Feedback: (44)

I've been more than happy with my trusty YS 110 for going on 3 years now. It was running great, and all was well last week when I put my Funtana 90 away. I did notice a bit more oil than normal leaking out the top of the cowl at the fuselage. Tonight I went out to fly and could not get it to fire up. After some closer inspection I noticed the large crack on the lower side of the crankcase(picture attached). I've never seen anything like this, not sure what to make of it. Its obviously not crash damage, and the mount is nylon, so I do not see how it could be under mounting stress. Just what could possibly cause something like this to happen? My worries are that this will not be covered under YS warranty on a 3 year old engine[]

Kevin

Troy Newman

Wow, Thats pretty dramatic.

If the engine was detonating and hammering it could cause this type of damage but it could just be a flaw in the case...I don't really know.

Contact Richard Verano at YS Parts and Service. You are going to have to send it in for sure. I know he can fix it up but it may need some serious parts. He is very good about working with guys. If the engine was run really lean and detonating there will likely be other signs of problems inside. If these signs are not there Richard may just fix it under "Warranty" as a factory defective case.

Of course this is done aon a case by case basis and I can't promise anything. I don't work for YS Parts and Service or YS Performance. I just know from experience that Richard is very fair about repairs and dealing with customers.

What I think you should do is pack it up in the original box and send it back in for service. Explain in the Letter what happened and give him information like Fuel you were using prop, rpms, and so on. Then Give your contact information. Ask him to call with an estimate and find out if its under warranty. He will be honest with you and you need to be honest with him as far as running it lean and so on. As soon as he opens it up, he'll be able to tell if its been abused. He'll know what fuel you are running, and likely how much prop load you are putting on the engine. He'll know for sure if you are telling him the straight skinny or not. SO be honest with him. He will be honest back then you guys can likely come to a very workable fix for the engine.

I'm not sure I have not seen this too much. Usually if something liek this is going to happen it is early in the life of an engine it happens.

Troy Newman
Team YS

Tipover

My Feedback: (44)

Hi Troy,

Thanks for your input. This engine has probably close to 16 gallons of Wildcat 20/20 through it, then possibly another 32 gallons Wildcat 30% heli fuel through it. I fly a lot, and Its given me very good service, so I'm not complaining that I have not gotten my moneys worth. Its never been run lean intentionaly for any length of time, of course if that crack showed up during its last run, then possible it got a short lean run after loss of crankcase pressure. Strange thing is I never noticed any lose of power or detonation during that last flight. I would expect it somewhat difficult for Richard to reallly tell the difference between cause and effect of a defective casting? I was totally shocked after pulling the cowl off and seeing that large crack. I fully understand the rareness of a defective casting surfacing after 3 years of pretty hard usage. With the high hours on this engine, I do not feel it would be practical to invest in a major repair at this point it its usefull lifespan. On the other hand, a guy just hates to through something in the recycle bin that was providing perfectly good performance last time it was used. I most likely will send it to Richard just to satisfy my curiousity. Thanks again for your comments.

Kevin

Troy Newman

Send it to Richard...you might be surprised at the costs....He may be able to work something out that will keep you from having to buy a new one. Yes a new Case is expensive....but I have put a new case on and engine before and it was betetr than buying a new one.

Richard is an expert at these things and he can make it work out for you...Rememebr to tell him to call with an estimate for sure.

The only thing you ahve to loose is a little shipping money...veyr small potato compared to a new 110S

Troy Newman
Team YS

Tipover

My Feedback: (44)

I sent the engine off to Richard this morning.

Kevin

thomasf

My Feedback: (1)

I had the same thing happen to my crankcase, same spot. I sent it in and got it back in a couple of weeks. It cost me around a hundred bucks to get back. He didn't charge me for a new crankcase, but he did charge me for labor and replacement of the gaskets and some other little stuff and can't remember, he did a once over I guess. My 110 ran like a Swiss time piece up until the crack. I love this motor, lots of power. I have not flown the engine since I got back so I can't comment on the post end of repair, I would buy the new 110 with out hesitation if I had a need for it. YS makes a great product.

Tipover

My Feedback: (44)

thomasf-

Very interesting, so not as rare an occurance as one might expect. Did Richard give you any indication of what may have caused the crack?

Kevin

togatoga

My Feedback: (42)

I think YS makes great engines but the molding quality isn't on par with the likes of OS. The YS 110 has a molding imperfection like a hairline crack on the left front side of the engine mounting lug and the inner top of the combustion chamber next to the exhaust valve has on some samples a rather rough casting imperfection which can come out in chunks after the engine has been run for a while. I have seen that on the 140s too.I know this as I have had to change cylinder heads a few times because of the imperfection. It just isn't right to have something like this in a performance engine. I am not surprised the crankcase can crack occasionally.
The YS110s has a better casting although I haven't taken it apart as yet. Not flaming YS but it is what I see. And I fly mainly YS only.

Troy Newman

I too have seen flaws in the casting but these usually show up right away. They are very rare. I have been running and working on YS engines for many many years and have only seen a handful of these issues in the hundreds of motors I have owned and worked on going back to the early 90's

Like I said before failure like this are rare I spoke to Richard about it and he said he can't count on one hand the number of cases that have failed this way without crash damage. If you figure this in comparison to the number of YS 110 in use today the number is very low....even count the 91's as the case design is basically same.

I have also seen YS 160's split down the middle on the bottom seam in line with the crankshaft. This doesn't mean that all 160's need to have a new case. It just means that a single or handful of failures can occur. These are high performance engines,a nd with the numbers of engines produced each year and actually being used...the failure rates for any of th engines is pretty low. I would say low to the point of 1-2% tops with problems out of the box. These problems will be fixed by YS Parts and Service. In all types of products failures can occur. How the warranty and service is handled is what sets YS Parts and Service apart from other engine importers. If you are not getting your engines from the North American outlets then you need to deal with your local importer or YS Japan.

If you have an issue with a case breaking in the North America contact Richard Verano at YS Parts and Service. He can solve your issue.

Troy Newman
Team YS

Tipover

My Feedback: (44)

Troy- I'm going to send you a PM

Kevin

Rumple

After about 4 gallons of fuel, my YS 110 also developed a crack in the same place as yours. Also in the linked post below another member reports that his friend's 110 developed a crack in the case: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_48...tm.htm#4912206

Wondering just how "rare" this really is. I too had to drop over $100 to get it back from Richard. Ticked me off because I don't believe it was my fault.

Attached is a pic of my cracked case, same place as yours. I highlighted the crack area in the pic because it is a fine hairline compared to yours.

Jeff Boyd 2

I've seen this too here . .

The engines I saw are YS160's and ALL mounted on beam mounts. I have never seen one fail using the genuine YS mount (Super Mount?).

Theory: These motors make a LOT of power for a 4 stroke of this capacity . . definitely can't be compared to a traditional 4 stroke engine. YS would produced dramatically more stresses both internally and on the castings. When a YS back-fires or detonates, the sudden shock of the immediate opposite rotation is trying to be "held" by the beam mount. This could place enormous stress on the crank case casting.

In support of theory: The YS mount is NOT holding the engine by the beam mounts so minimal (if any) stresses in this area. The YS mount allows the motor to rotate at the crank shaft center-line, and dampened by the shock absorber (sometimes hitting the side of the fuse when back-firing [&o]) thereby minimising any stresses being transferred to the crank case.

YS make an engine with beam mounts BUT . . their genuine engine mount doesn't use them ! ! . . figure that out ?

PS. Only theory but I'm comfortable with it

Tipover

My Feedback: (44)

Hopefully YS has addressed any weak points in the castings of the new 110-S

Kevin

Tipover

My Feedback: (44)

Deleted double post

Kevin

Troy Newman

I will say when I spoke to Richard just in the last couple days regarding this issue. He said the volume of engines 110FZ that are out in the field....compared to the number of these issues he has seen is extremely rare. As in there have only been a handful of these and the number of engines out there is extremely high for the 110FZ. We are not talking about couple hundred engines there are many many more out there than that. I have no specific numbers to share but it is well in the thousands. That is just in the USA. So a dozen or even two dozen of these issues makes it really rare.

Tipovers engine had 40-50 gallons of fuel through it. This is a good service life...To pay another $80-100 for another 40-50gallons seems to me to be a bargain. YS engines have a warranty just like any other engine manufacturer/Distributor. The policies and practices are in line and exceed industry standards for repair work and warranty service. This is one of the big selling points of YS engines here in the USA.


I do know that newer 110S has a changed case that is a little beefier. Perhaps the older case was not as strong as the current version. SO YS Japan made a change. I don't know this is a fact. I just know that comparing the 110S and the 110FZ shows this to be the case (pun intended). This is not unusual for a company improving their product. I don't know for sure the details.

But WHO am I, I'm just a modeler like everybody else. I'm not an official spokesman for YS Parts and Service, opinions expressed are my own.

As far as the 160 issue Jeff Boyd saw...we are talking about the 110's and the we don't need to muddy the waters with the YS engine mount. The 110 is not capable of using that mount. So its not an issue in this case on this engine. I have run the YS super mount and also the Hyde Mounts as well as hard mounting them. Never had an issue with this. I probably have more YS DZ time than anybody in the USA, and maybe even the world. I have run (5) 140DZ's, (4) 160DZ's, and now (3) different versions of the 170DZ. I burn on average just in DZ engines about 20-30cases of fuel a year. Thats cases not gallons. In 2003 I flew so much I went through almost 40 cases of fuel. At 20oz tank this is about 8-10 flights per gallon. This is just the flying I have done the DZ engines. I average around 800-1200flights in a year. I have been running the DZ engine since 2001. 6 full seasons at 800-1000+ flights per year. We are talking well over 5000-6000 total flights on DZ engines. I think I have a track record of the DZ engines.

On the 160 and now the 170DZ the 170 production engine has a much improved case to handle the stresses. Again with the number of engines in service the number of failures is well below what you think in terms of percentage of failures. I have seen one 160 do this. As I posted originally. Its a rare thing but does happen.

There is another issue that comes into play with these engines. Detonation is a big cause of many of these case issues. I had a 120 AC that I ran out of fuel one time at full power and it snapped the jug right off the engine. It was not a defective case I was running it really hard, on 50% nitro, and it was pulling hard when it ran dry and went bang. This was not a warranty repair either. I ran it lean. Detonated and turned a Tru-turn Spinner into a pretzel as well as busted the case on the engine

That doesn't mean the the 120AC had a weak case because it didn't. From the results in the field and the numbers of engines produced every year and these numbers are big guys, believe me I was shocked at how big. The failures are really rare.

The internet seems to be a place when a guy has a problem and he goes looking for answers. So this very nature would tend to highlight problems and issues rather than success stories. Its rare to hear the good stories and you always hear the guy that is upset.

Troy Newman
Team YS

Jeff Boyd 2

[sm=thumbs_up.gif][sm=thumbs_up.gif] I am looking to a DZ for next year and would prefer to run a Hyde Mount. Your experience is a big help (PS. I'm not sure you are "JUST a modeller like everybody else" though )

Cheers, Jeff

Iflyglow

My Feedback: (79)

It appears as if the machined flat (probably identifies the ones marketed by YS performance, versus the bootlegged engines from other countries for warranty issues) spot on the side creates a stress riser to start a crack. My Brand new purchased last week 1.40 Sport has the same hairline flaw on both sides, in front of the mounting lugs identically where the crack is shown on the 1.10 case. I am a mechanical engineer by trade, and this is just poor quality casting work period.

Troy Newman

motorman contact the YS Parts and Servi8ce if you want them to do something for you. I too am a mechanical engineer by trade, and I don't work for YS.

So As I have stated before if you want something done about it deal with YS Parts and Service they imprt the engines to the US. They warranty the engine.

I can't help you, and I still can't see you cracks the photos are just not good enough.

Troy Newman
Team YS

Iflyglow

My Feedback: (79)

Troy,
I looked at two other 1.40's this weekend, and they all look the same. I will live with it. It is just kinda sad that they look like that for close to $400.00. I also picked up a 1.10S at the same time. Do you recommend the same props for the S model as the normal 1.10FZ. Here is my recent purchases.

Troy Newman

Shoot for the rpm ranges to be right. The 110S will likely be a couple 200-300rpm more on the same prop and fuel than the 110FZ.

110 rpms need to shoot for 9200 to 9600 you can load it down to 9000 but I would not go below that.

The 110FZ is good on 30% heli and a 14-12 or 15-10 depending on your elevation and such.



For the 140 shoot for about 8400-8800rpm On 30% heli a 15-12 or 16-11 will work well in the same conditions.


Troy Newman
Team YS

mlj3

My Feedback: (95)

Another YS 110 with a cracked crankcase.Engine has 8 gallons of Cool Power 25% nitro and always ran on the rich side.Engine was sent in to YS today
Hopefully the repairs will not be to costly !!!

mlj3

My Feedback: (95)

Sorry I sent the same pic 3 times.This was the 1st time I uploaded a pic.Anyway for sure you will not have any problem seeing the CRACK !!