NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
04-20-2011, 10:25 PM
#27
Senior Member
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
ORIGINAL: Clean
What ticks me off is I've read 21 posts and not one of them NOT ONE has the mentioned link in it!
It should be in your signature Klondike. I gave all my 25 combat engines to a guy who was actually going to play combat. 7-8 of them to keep 2 or 3 running and in parts. Sooner or later he's gonna need parts, at least head gaskets, though I told him to take an old one out and send it to FOX and they'd probably have something close.
What ticks me off is I've read 21 posts and not one of them NOT ONE has the mentioned link in it!
It should be in your signature Klondike. I gave all my 25 combat engines to a guy who was actually going to play combat. 7-8 of them to keep 2 or 3 running and in parts. Sooner or later he's gonna need parts, at least head gaskets, though I told him to take an old one out and send it to FOX and they'd probably have something close.
Just apparently not ticked off enough to do a google search......
04-20-2011, 11:36 PM
#28
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
When i doubt, google first...
Members are not allowed to provide any links as they have all agreed to the Terms of use, a direct quote: "You may not link to this Website without NV Engines’s written permission. If you are interested in linking to this Website, please contact [email protected]"
Members are not allowed to provide any links as they have all agreed to the Terms of use, a direct quote: "You may not link to this Website without NV Engines’s written permission. If you are interested in linking to this Website, please contact [email protected]"
04-21-2011, 03:27 AM
#29
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
I googled. I binged. I hit 3 or 4 more of the worthless search engines that somehow manage to get installed on your browser when you are installing a product. I didn't come up with a Norvel link other then this forum and his email address. Now, I will say that I am notoriously mislead by search engines though usually they do work for me. But I put in Norvel engines, buy Norvel engines and I got everything from old SIG listings to this very thread.
And it seems to me that my last point, it ought to be in his signature, is still valid. I am, I guess, taking for granted that he can give himself permission to post his link of his site in his responses.
But thats just me I guess.
And it seems to me that my last point, it ought to be in his signature, is still valid. I am, I guess, taking for granted that he can give himself permission to post his link of his site in his responses.
But thats just me I guess.
04-22-2011, 03:53 AM
#31
My Feedback: (1)
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
ORIGINAL: Clean
I googled. I binged. I hit 3 or 4 more of the worthless search engines that somehow manage to get installed on your browser when you are installing a product. I didn't come up with a Norvel link other then this forum and his email address. Now, I will say that I am notoriously mislead by search engines though usually they do work for me. But I put in Norvel engines, buy Norvel engines and I got everything from old SIG listings to this very thread.
And it seems to me that my last point, it ought to be in his signature, is still valid. I am, I guess, taking for granted that he can give himself permission to post his link of his site in his responses.
But thats just me I guess.
I googled. I binged. I hit 3 or 4 more of the worthless search engines that somehow manage to get installed on your browser when you are installing a product. I didn't come up with a Norvel link other then this forum and his email address. Now, I will say that I am notoriously mislead by search engines though usually they do work for me. But I put in Norvel engines, buy Norvel engines and I got everything from old SIG listings to this very thread.
And it seems to me that my last point, it ought to be in his signature, is still valid. I am, I guess, taking for granted that he can give himself permission to post his link of his site in his responses.
But thats just me I guess.
If you'd Googled "nv engines" like the post said you'd got it as the first hit.
04-25-2011, 08:11 AM
#33
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RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
ORIGINAL: klondike17
When Norvel went down in 2003, the void in the market was filled by electric motors. Now we all have to think how to sway balance back. Besides the engines we will be offering ARF kits soon - working on the assemly line right now.
When Norvel went down in 2003, the void in the market was filled by electric motors. Now we all have to think how to sway balance back. Besides the engines we will be offering ARF kits soon - working on the assemly line right now.
It's gonna be interesting to see what shows up for the .074 powered ARF. Pretty narrow target to build for. Most (.074 models) of what I've seen in the past would be better off with a .09. The largest .074 plane (that I've come up with) which performs well on a 6x4 prop, is a loose copy of a "SIMPLE 400" mated to a MSS wing. Weighs in at 'bout 15-to-16 OZs. Hopefully NV will not get into the 'LIL EXTRA size plane (as did SIG) & recommend the .074 for power. ................ George K.
04-25-2011, 08:53 AM
#34
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
ORIGINAL: mtntopgeo
It's gonna be interesting to see what shows up for the .074 powered ARF. Pretty narrow target to build for.
It's gonna be interesting to see what shows up for the .074 powered ARF. Pretty narrow target to build for.
04-25-2011, 10:33 AM
#36
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
It is an ARF from Carl Goldberg that is no longer made, as I have understood it, maybe you could get the rights from them...
Here is some data:
Super Chipmunk 400 (by Carl Goldberg)
Wingspan: 38"
Length: 28 1/2"
Wing area: 230 square inches
Weight: 22oz (3S lipo, 400 engine) I get 19oz with a Norvel 074
The prop I use the most is the APC 6.3x4, which the engine spins at around 17500rpm on 10% nitro and 20% all castor.
I have used the regular .061 springstarter and made an in-cowl starter, works great. AndyW has also helped me by fitting an adjustable airbleed, gives a very nice idle around 4000rpm and a good throttle response.
Here is some data:
Super Chipmunk 400 (by Carl Goldberg)
Wingspan: 38"
Length: 28 1/2"
Wing area: 230 square inches
Weight: 22oz (3S lipo, 400 engine) I get 19oz with a Norvel 074
The prop I use the most is the APC 6.3x4, which the engine spins at around 17500rpm on 10% nitro and 20% all castor.
I have used the regular .061 springstarter and made an in-cowl starter, works great. AndyW has also helped me by fitting an adjustable airbleed, gives a very nice idle around 4000rpm and a good throttle response.
04-25-2011, 10:37 AM
#37
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RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
ORIGINAL: Mr Cox
On the contrary, there are lots of ARFs already that are an excellent fit for the .074 engine. I think it is close to ideal for anything designed for 400 power. Unlike the .061 the .074 can spin a 6x4 or 7x3 prop and with good throttling it is much better suited for flying planes at reduced throttle rather than only at full throttle. I have a super chipmunk (from Carl Goldberg) which is a really sweet flyer, and the the .074 is a great match if one doesn't used full throttle all the time. In fact about half throttle is enough for level flight and full throttle gives unlimited verticals.
ORIGINAL: mtntopgeo
It's gonna be interesting to see what shows up for the .074 powered ARF. Pretty narrow target to build for.
It's gonna be interesting to see what shows up for the .074 powered ARF. Pretty narrow target to build for.
Mr, Cox; Although I didn't state so, I was refering to that narrow band (of aircraft) where the .074 would reign supreme. I agree, that it will spin a 6x4 & a 7x3. But, it's not gonna get into it's sweet spot with the 7x3. (which seems to be the most popular prop, from what I've seen in the forums, used by .074 owners.) I've "played" quite a bit with comparing the .09 Enya & .074 Norvel on the same planes. (Some foam/home builts, Mini Super Sport, & Lil' Extra. My own results were, that if the plane was large enough so that I had to go to a 7x3 prop for the Norvel, the results were much better, overall, by installing the .09. Same thing going smaller; Easy to get into the area where the .061 is gonna be the choice. I realize that I'm cutting some fine lines here, & don't want to get into the area of personal prefrence. Just want to clairfy my stance. ..................... Interesting exhaust system, What am I looking at, & how did you build it? What is the clesr material? ................... George k.i
04-25-2011, 10:51 AM
#38
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
Although the Norvel .074 develops the power of a .09-.10 I think that they have very different use. To me the Norvel .074 is excellent in applications where an .061 engine in principle will have enough power but cannot spin the appropriate prop for the plane. That is where the engine reigns supreme to me. The Enya 09 and the OS 10 will happily spin 7x4 props (the Enya even larger) but they also weight about twice of what the Norvel does.
The muffler is made from some aluminium tubing and old marker pens, all held together by JB weld, no high tech but it works...
The muffler is made from some aluminium tubing and old marker pens, all held together by JB weld, no high tech but it works...
04-25-2011, 01:06 PM
#39
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RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
Just to clarify things a bit. The difference between the Enya and the Norvel is TORQUE. HP is often used in marketing but sometimes a little mis-leading in representing the capabilities of an engine
Using a MAS 8 X 3 prop, the Enya can produce over 32 ounces of thrust which is at least 50% - 75% more than what the Norvel can produce. This ability to swing the larger prop is a by-product of the Enya's torque . That makes the Enya a great choice for a plane like the Little Extra where you can achieve better than 1 thrust to weigh ratio and have fun with unlimited vertical 3D aerobatics (At the expense of speed)
On the other hand if you're looking for speed, the Norvel comes into its own spinning 4-5-6 inch props at higher RPMS. Some guys have flown Norvels in excess of 100 MPH with the right prop / airframe (At the expense of thrust). Also, the Norvel has a decent throttle and its low weight allows it to work well on small planes.
These are 2 different ways of using the old HP formula:HP= (Torque X RPM) / 5250:
Norvel: Horsepower = (Smaller torque X Big RPM's) / 5250
Enya: Horsepower = (Big torque X Smaller RPM's) / 5250
Comparable Horspower / different Capabilities
Norvel used to advertise .10 power at 1/2 weight which was stretching things a bit: The Norvel weight is 75 grams and the Enya .09 plain bearing weight is 112 grams.
Again, you have to consider the applications: Add 2 ounces to the Typical 25-32 ounces plane the Enya is great for, it's not a huge % of total weight and the larger wings easily carry the weight. On the other hand, the Norvel's lighter weight is a benefit for smaller / faster planes it's well suited for.
Both are great when used for the right application
Using a MAS 8 X 3 prop, the Enya can produce over 32 ounces of thrust which is at least 50% - 75% more than what the Norvel can produce. This ability to swing the larger prop is a by-product of the Enya's torque . That makes the Enya a great choice for a plane like the Little Extra where you can achieve better than 1 thrust to weigh ratio and have fun with unlimited vertical 3D aerobatics (At the expense of speed)
On the other hand if you're looking for speed, the Norvel comes into its own spinning 4-5-6 inch props at higher RPMS. Some guys have flown Norvels in excess of 100 MPH with the right prop / airframe (At the expense of thrust). Also, the Norvel has a decent throttle and its low weight allows it to work well on small planes.
These are 2 different ways of using the old HP formula:HP= (Torque X RPM) / 5250:
Norvel: Horsepower = (Smaller torque X Big RPM's) / 5250
Enya: Horsepower = (Big torque X Smaller RPM's) / 5250
Comparable Horspower / different Capabilities
Norvel used to advertise .10 power at 1/2 weight which was stretching things a bit: The Norvel weight is 75 grams and the Enya .09 plain bearing weight is 112 grams.
Again, you have to consider the applications: Add 2 ounces to the Typical 25-32 ounces plane the Enya is great for, it's not a huge % of total weight and the larger wings easily carry the weight. On the other hand, the Norvel's lighter weight is a benefit for smaller / faster planes it's well suited for.
Both are great when used for the right application
04-25-2011, 04:12 PM
#40
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
I would like to see a really high performance .049 for CL combat type applications. I have a combat version AME with a Galbreth head that turns over 30,000. It is a sweet engine. Very easy to handle as well. Easy hand starts, easy to needle. I would like to see a better than original stock needle (fine thread) with a short, flat button knob type adjustment. An engine that would be a little more reasonably priced and available over the Cyclone and Fora. Something that could be used for RC racing as well. The High Perf. .049 they show as discontinued.
04-25-2011, 04:47 PM
#42
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RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
As a point of interest, the Norvel Spring 2000 R/C Catalog states on page 21 under the Big Mig .074 description, that "Weight 50% less than O.S. FP.10, but delivers similiar power". If you have the weight of an O.S. 10 FP handy then the comparison will be easier. FWIW.
04-25-2011, 07:49 PM
#43
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
Klondike, I think that is the one. I have quite a few AME engines. Several of the first generation. The engines I purchased from Larry Driskall ran much better than any other. Very strong engine. We designed larger aircraft around them at the time.
Any possibilty of this returning or something similar?
Any possibilty of this returning or something similar?
04-25-2011, 08:46 PM
#47
Senior Member
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace
I would like to see a really high performance .049 for CL combat type applications. I have a combat version AME with a Galbreth head that turns over 30,000. It is a sweet engine. Very easy to handle as well. Easy hand starts, easy to needle. I would like to see a better than original stock needle (fine thread) with a short, flat button knob type adjustment. An engine that would be a little more reasonably priced and available over the Cyclone and Fora. Something that could be used for RC racing as well. The High Perf. .049 they show as discontinued.
I would like to see a really high performance .049 for CL combat type applications. I have a combat version AME with a Galbreth head that turns over 30,000. It is a sweet engine. Very easy to handle as well. Easy hand starts, easy to needle. I would like to see a better than original stock needle (fine thread) with a short, flat button knob type adjustment. An engine that would be a little more reasonably priced and available over the Cyclone and Fora. Something that could be used for RC racing as well. The High Perf. .049 they show as discontinued.
I won't pretend to speak for Klondike, but making a Norvel version of a Cyclon won't work with the current case or architecture. Maybe you mean something that turns like your 30krpm engine-that's doable, but the difference in power between a 30k engine and a 36k engine are considerably different. That's not going to be a matter of fits and optimum porting...
Norvels are very good for what they are. Sure, we'd all like them to turn 50k, needle perfectly and run all season long on an ounce of fuel but to be perfectly honest they are good as they come. I'd like to see a little more care in tolerancing on the deck height, improving the tight crank fits, and raising the compression ratio which is really low. I have never had a problem needling a Norvel, but I don't run them on a bladder either.
04-25-2011, 08:52 PM
#48
Senior Member
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
ORIGINAL: klondike17
it is very unlikely - we move forward only.
it is very unlikely - we move forward only.
Some would say that the Revlite cylinders were a step back. The earlier motors made more power and were lighter. Personally, I believe that Norvel used the anodizing process because it was cheaper to apply, didn't require post-processing after the cylinder was done, and performance was close enough for most people who bought the engines. From a manufacturing standpoint, going to hard anodizing was a stroke of genius.
I'd be happy to go back to the earlier, smaller cylinder profile with Revlite finish. I know some of the transitional cylinders were like this when Revlite came out, I'd love to have more of them. The larger cylinders don't offer any advantage I can think of other than looks.
Oh. All norvels should come with spring starters, especially if you are selling ARFs to electric flyers who may not have their old field gear anymore.
04-25-2011, 08:59 PM
#49
Senior Member
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
ORIGINAL: R/C Phile
Just to clarify things a bit. The difference between the Enya and the Norvel is TORQUE. HP is often used in marketing but sometimes a little mis-leading in representing the capabilities of an engine
Using a MAS 8 X 3 prop, the Enya can produce over 32 ounces of thrust which is at least 50% - 75% more than what the Norvel can produce. This ability to swing the larger prop is a by-product of the Enya's torque . That makes the Enya a great choice for a plane like the Little Extra where you can achieve better than 1 thrust to weigh ratio and have fun with unlimited vertical 3D aerobatics (At the expense of speed)
On the other hand if you're looking for speed, the Norvel comes into its own spinning 4-5-6 inch props at higher RPMS. Some guys have flown Norvels in excess of 100 MPH with the right prop / airframe (At the expense of thrust). Also, the Norvel has a decent throttle and its low weight allows it to work well on small planes.
These are 2 different ways of using the old HP formula:HP= (Torque X RPM) / 5250:
Norvel: Horsepower = (Smaller torque X Big RPM's) / 5250
Enya: Horsepower = (Big torque X Smaller RPM's) / 5250
Comparable Horspower / different Capabilities
Norvel used to advertise .10 power at 1/2 weight which was stretching things a bit: The Norvel weight is 75 grams and the Enya .09 plain bearing weight is 112 grams.
Again, you have to consider the applications: Add 2 ounces to the Typical 25-32 ounces plane the Enya is great for, it's not a huge % of total weight and the larger wings easily carry the weight. On the other hand, the Norvel's lighter weight is a benefit for smaller / faster planes it's well suited for.
Both are great when used for the right application
Just to clarify things a bit. The difference between the Enya and the Norvel is TORQUE. HP is often used in marketing but sometimes a little mis-leading in representing the capabilities of an engine
Using a MAS 8 X 3 prop, the Enya can produce over 32 ounces of thrust which is at least 50% - 75% more than what the Norvel can produce. This ability to swing the larger prop is a by-product of the Enya's torque . That makes the Enya a great choice for a plane like the Little Extra where you can achieve better than 1 thrust to weigh ratio and have fun with unlimited vertical 3D aerobatics (At the expense of speed)
On the other hand if you're looking for speed, the Norvel comes into its own spinning 4-5-6 inch props at higher RPMS. Some guys have flown Norvels in excess of 100 MPH with the right prop / airframe (At the expense of thrust). Also, the Norvel has a decent throttle and its low weight allows it to work well on small planes.
These are 2 different ways of using the old HP formula:HP= (Torque X RPM) / 5250:
Norvel: Horsepower = (Smaller torque X Big RPM's) / 5250
Enya: Horsepower = (Big torque X Smaller RPM's) / 5250
Comparable Horspower / different Capabilities
Norvel used to advertise .10 power at 1/2 weight which was stretching things a bit: The Norvel weight is 75 grams and the Enya .09 plain bearing weight is 112 grams.
Again, you have to consider the applications: Add 2 ounces to the Typical 25-32 ounces plane the Enya is great for, it's not a huge % of total weight and the larger wings easily carry the weight. On the other hand, the Norvel's lighter weight is a benefit for smaller / faster planes it's well suited for.
Both are great when used for the right application
You have to be careful comparing engines here-I'm willing to bet that the Norvel beats the Enya in the power sweepstakes, but the difference in prop efficiency is what makes the Enya look better in the air. The difference in prop disc area between a 7 and 8" prop is huge as well.
04-26-2011, 12:57 AM
#50
RE: NV Engines (formerly Norvel) are returning?
For a comparison between weights I think both engines should have the stock muffler on. The Enya then weights 145g with the old, smaller, muffler and even more with the new muffler that is delivered if you place an order today (i.e. the same as for their .15 engine, the muffler has a double set of threaded holes).
In terms of performance i get around 14500rpm on an APC7x4 on the Enya, which corresponds to about 0.15Hp (according to the "power calculator" by Peer Rivers).
The Norvel spins a 6.3x4 at 17500rpm and puts out 0.18Hp on the same 10% Nitro fuel.
So in terms power/weight ratio, the Norvel has more than twice of what the Enya can give, so the advertisment is actually a little modest...
Enya is also the lightest 09 engine (including muffler) that I know of, apart from the PAW 09 then, so it is even more favourable to compare with other engines like the OS LA series for instance.
This doesn't mean that Norvel is the best for every application but in terms of power/weight and ability to rev, they are pretty outstanding in my mind.
In terms of performance i get around 14500rpm on an APC7x4 on the Enya, which corresponds to about 0.15Hp (according to the "power calculator" by Peer Rivers).
The Norvel spins a 6.3x4 at 17500rpm and puts out 0.18Hp on the same 10% Nitro fuel.
So in terms power/weight ratio, the Norvel has more than twice of what the Enya can give, so the advertisment is actually a little modest...
Enya is also the lightest 09 engine (including muffler) that I know of, apart from the PAW 09 then, so it is even more favourable to compare with other engines like the OS LA series for instance.
This doesn't mean that Norvel is the best for every application but in terms of power/weight and ability to rev, they are pretty outstanding in my mind.