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Silly, Foolish Ideas...

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Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Old 04-22-2012, 07:06 PM
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Japanman
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Default Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Now, before we start, the electrics better etc. etc. yeah, your prolly right, but that link someone posted a while back to the TD020 powered DF plane got me thinking. I have a reworked Fora 020 that liked to rev... and an 020 DF would be kind of cool...[8D]

I tweaked the case a bit, and even made a new exhaust stub... cause its gotta have a tuned pipe, right?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...inch_48mm.html

It spins this cheap and a bit crappy 50mm fan at 34,000 on 20% fuel (with no intake lip either), and the whole thing only weighs 34grams... I am really happy with it. it even seemed to be putting out some plane flyable thrust!

Now I just need to make some planes... I like the look of the Early experimental Jets, particularly the Yak 23 at the moment.
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:18 PM
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exocet-RCU
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

That's really COOL, Japanman! I think a small T-33 would be great for that setup.
Old 04-22-2012, 07:34 PM
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forsakenrider
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

hot damn YES! how about a video of that sucker!!

I've always wanted to get my hands on one of those little foras! this looks like great use for it.

One thing, how will you start it in the plane?
Old 04-22-2012, 07:58 PM
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Japanman
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

That's really COOL, Japanman! I think a small T-33 would be great for that setup.
Thanks! On one hand I want to make myown plane, but on the other hand there are a lot of cheap DF planes on H.K that take this size fan that could make the time to fly a lot quicker ;-)


hot damn YES! how about a video of that sucker!!

I've always wanted to get my hands on one of those little foras! this looks like great use for it.

One thing, how will you start it in the plane?
Dude, the Fora 020 is really a kit engine as is. The reality is, you need to make your own piston and rod, and then re-port the engine completely. Stock they only do about 14k on a 4.2x2 and 15k with a flywheel. The crank is good, and the cylinder plating is good, but the rest...


I have ordered another 2inch Fan to try. Like the other DF setups I have made recently, I made the engine mount to the dimensions of an inrunner- so I can swap and drop fans.
Old 04-23-2012, 12:43 AM
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nitroairplane
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Mig15!

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=1377
How much ahead of the tee dee .020 is the Fora?
Old 04-23-2012, 01:12 PM
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Japanman
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

I can't really say how much more powerful, as I don't have a TD.020. But i would guess about 3k up on average, with the same prop.

Also, you have to re-port the sleeve of the Fora- and given how tiny it is, there can be big variations
in performance.
Old 04-23-2012, 03:02 PM
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nitroairplane
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

So a good tee dee .020 with a lightene piston, SPI enlarged venture and pressure tapped should at least turn this fast enough to fly.
Old 04-23-2012, 03:04 PM
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

My VA 020 turned out as disappointing as your Fora when I ran it-(as a glow)-I'm glad now that I didn't chase a Fora when they were available-a couple of modellers in NZ have them-I've seen a couple in the flesh (-and they were both different!) , but no one has reported running one. My VA also has an alternative diesel head-but I haven't got around to running it as a diesel..........

ChrisM
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:56 PM
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

I think it would be impossible to build a plane that is too light. I'd be happy with a simple plane built no heavier than a rubberband model to test the powerplant on.
Give it a thin enough wing to let the engine unwind.
Once that's been accomplished, then I'd try to hit a home run with a fancier model.
Old 04-23-2012, 08:23 PM
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Japanman
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

So a good tee dee .020 with a lightene piston, SPI enlarged venture and pressure tapped should at least turn this fast enough to fly.
I think so. And the 2inch or 50mmish fans seem to be just right, and there are quite a few options on HK that are less than $15 to experimant with to get a match between the fans optimal efficiency vs about the right load for the engine.
man, that guy did it years ago with probably stone age rc stuff and it apparantly flew, so we should be able to make something that goes that much better.

Kiwi, I envy you that you got one of the VAs. I heard they are a bit dissapointing performance wise, but all the same, it is a VA! I bet it has a nice piston fit and plating.
I would love to look at one and see, from what I have learnt porting wise about the Fora, if I could make it go.

Pigg, Yeah, I think you are dead right about weight. Thats the critical thing- electric setups for this size fan weigh a ton, but have loads of power.
The 020 setup on the other hand the whole plane is weight critical- the wingloading and power to weight all need to be watched like a hawk to make a good plane.
Old 04-24-2012, 01:01 AM
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Silly, foolish idea? - Probably.

A whole lot of fun? - Probably!

John.
Old 04-25-2012, 03:25 AM
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

I've been thinking of trying a folding prop designed for electrics on a small glow engine. I figure I'll just stay out of the propeller arc, in case it decides to throw a blade.
Old 04-25-2012, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Are you syre the .020 powered one wasn't FF?
As all the kits o know of from that time that used fans and were around 1/2a size were FF.
There was pee wee .020 powered one too, Berkeley Tiger i think.
Old 04-25-2012, 08:01 PM
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DeviousDave
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...


ORIGINAL: nitroairplane

Mig15!

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=1377
How much ahead of the tee dee .020 is the Fora?

I've got that kit!
Old 04-27-2012, 09:17 PM
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Japanman
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Thats a nice looking kit too. Got a Jetex for it? Man, those things were cool! [8D]
Brings back some good memories.
Old 04-30-2012, 12:03 AM
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Nah, I picked it up to scale up when EDF's were first hitting the market. Once I played with a few I lost interest-I'm only now actually flying an electric jet, and it's a 15 year old brushed motor if you can believe it!

I did recently pick up 6 KAMDAX fans though.... but they came with their own MiG's!
Old 04-30-2012, 06:43 AM
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Japanman
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Nice. If you could shoe horn in a Cyclon in one of those, you could hit the afterburner... How solid are the fan units?
Didn't they come with BigMig engines as stock? I wonder if itd be worth installing a reworked AME-

Ive now got the beginnings of a fuselage and duct tube, male molded over foam. I will soon know if its light enough or if I need to try again.
pictures soon.
Old 05-01-2012, 06:33 AM
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DeviousDave
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

A cyclon wouldn't work, wrong mounting method... I'd say the fans are solid enough-the impeller is about what you would expect for an EDF of the same size, same for the fan-the clip on shroud is nice and light. I think the engines are AME .049 R/C's with a tall head and a few small details changed. Well, I say they are AME's because they have 3 ports but I don't know that the porting is the same.
Old 05-02-2012, 03:46 PM
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Japanman
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

I have screwed up- I made my fuselage layed up over styrofoam- and instead of covering with packing tape as I have since way back, I coated the foam with P.VA release agent.
And thinking I was smart, I poured in some gasoline to melt the foam out.... and now I have horrible brown goo all over the inside of the fuse, its like warm chewing gum.
I was thinking I would be able to the throw it in a bath and the goo would release because of the PVA, but no luck.

Anyone have a magic de-goo trick?

Stefan
Old 05-02-2012, 08:36 PM
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DeviousDave
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

I'd just keep on washing with gasoline, not too many things are more solvent like than Gasoline....
Old 05-02-2012, 09:10 PM
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Nitro eats ALL. Try cheap Saki, the smell reminds me of AvGas, and has that blueish tint.
Old 05-02-2012, 09:50 PM
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

The fiberglass shell will need a few weeks to totally cure, so I would put it aside for now.
If the PVA is soluable in hot water, then a soak in hot soapy water might work.
Old 05-04-2012, 12:46 AM
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Japanman
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Thanks for the ideas, guys.

I gave it a few days to dry out, in case the goo shrunk as it dried and started to release- or some other possibility showed. no luck, so I drank some cheap saki, and then made a l tank out of two big soup cans soldered together and its swimming in Gasoline now, and the goop is starting to really let go. or at least it appears to be... Hic.

Pigg, Its had a good three hours of post cure high temps to really kick it off- so its about as hard as it ever will be.

I got another fan from Hobbyking, but it was a POS- fan blades vertical at the hub, center hole cast off center etc- The wemotec micro fan would have been better, but I think I can home brew something thats good enough, which might be an interesting challenge.
The new fan came with a great 55mm stator tube though.
Old 05-04-2012, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

I like your style! Would be nice with a video of one of these things running! ........... Waiting for it!
I think im gonna mess with a TD020 again, mmm i need a small hopeless project i think!
Jonas
Old 05-05-2012, 01:39 AM
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Default RE: Silly, Foolish Ideas...

Well, i took stock of my situation. I did some sums, and I figure the whole deal has to be 150gms to fly well. My fuse is just too heavy, so its now sleeping with the fishes.
I have shrunk my plans to get the fuse 45cm long from 51cm- this should make the weight target more achievable. The ducting I made will still fit this.
past, unhappy experience with heavy planes and good planes that flew well reminds me of what I want at the end. Not an underpowered lead frisbee.

S

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