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"1/2 A" & "1/8 A" airplanes These are the small ones...more popular now than ever.

1/2A starter.

Old 06-10-2017, 02:21 PM
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Sport_Pilot
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Default 1/2A starter.

Ok I have a Cox .020 which I finally got started. But would not restart. Darned easy to flood. Getting tired of flipping. Cannot find a 1/2A starter anywhere. Anybody know of one somewhere. Also will the engine hold up to one if careful?
Old 06-10-2017, 07:47 PM
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JohnBuckner
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Well Sullivan still lists their half A Hornet starter:

Starters

The picture is mine with a MP Jet .059 diesel But it sounds as though yours does not have the .020 start spring. Actually using the start spring works far better with that engine over hand flipping.

John
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:46 PM
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Sport_Pilot
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They may be listed on their site but I cannot find them for sale anywhere. Nor the miller brand.
Old 06-11-2017, 01:30 AM
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Default 1/2A starter

You have four options-find an Astro flight, Miller or Sullivan hornet-anywhere you can (Ebay??)-or make your own. I have personal experience of all four options-and the Miller is by far the best for the small Coxes-largely because it runs very smoothly and has interchangeable inserts sized for 010, 020 and 049 sized motors. The Astroflite is quite a bit rougher-whilst the Hornet is a bit large for using on the very small ones-that being said I find the Hornet very useful for the 049-15 size range-and it will cope with the larger motors whereas the true '1/2A starters' will struggle. As for making your own-well a 380 sized brushed motor and access to a lathe will turn out a workable starter without too much trouble.....

ChrisM
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Old 06-11-2017, 12:57 PM
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Sport_Pilot
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It's a .020 TD and have started it several times. The best performance was 17,000 with a 4.5 x 2 Cox prop. May have missed the actual peak so maybe 18,000 or so. The longest run was about a minute and 40 seconds. That seemed short so I checked the tank by pulling the back plate off and it was dry. Is that a normal run for this engine with the plastic tank? I have seen YouTube video's where the .020 models are running over 5 minutes, but maybe not on the stock tank. What is the capacity of the tank? What size tank should I consider? 1/3 to 1/2 oz is my guess. Suspect the tank may have leaked but only when running.
Old 06-11-2017, 03:47 PM
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Default starter

Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
Ok I have a Cox .020 which I finally got started. But would not restart. Darned easy to flood. Getting tired of flipping. Cannot find a 1/2A starter anywhere. Anybody know of one somewhere. Also will the engine hold up to one if careful?
Most folks are out of the small starter business these days but Sullivan and Norvel used to make them . I had a sullivan version and it didn't seem to help all that much. I found for the .010 and .020 the spring starters that came with the engines worked best. The .049 to .09 I hand flipped and rarely used the sullivan starter..I did find that the Master Airscrews gear box for electric motors with an end cap for 3/4 inch plumbing fitting and a pink rubber eraser cut to fit in the plumbing fitting worked best. I don't remember exactly what the gearbox reduction was but it seemed about right.l you'd have to fit a switch to it somehow (I made my own)
As to the engine holding up - the load is on the crankcase where the prop thrust washer presses in - as long as the thin bushing holds up that will be ok. If the engine hydro-locks you could bend a rod or something when you hit it with the starter. if you have questions - holler
Old 06-11-2017, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
It's a .020 TD and have started it several times. The best performance was 17,000 with a 4.5 x 2 Cox prop. May have missed the actual peak so maybe 18,000 or so. The longest run was about a minute and 40 seconds. That seemed short so I checked the tank by pulling the back plate off and it was dry. Is that a normal run for this engine with the plastic tank? I have seen YouTube video's where the .020 models are running over 5 minutes, but maybe not on the stock tank. What is the capacity of the tank? What size tank should I consider? 1/3 to 1/2 oz is my guess. Suspect the tank may have leaked but only when running.
Well first off I have said before and am happy to repeat - the .010 and the .020 are thirsty little devils. The fuel is a nit as to weight so if you supplement the regular tank with another it doesn't matter much on size because all the hardware associated with them weighs about the same. What I like to use is the little 50cc liquor bottles. They are fully 1 3/4 oz so if you are flying control line you'd need to be careful in filling the tank or you'd be going around in circles a while.
The .020 performance can't compare to the .010 but if you use a wooden prop and thin it down a bit and shorten it to 4.25 inches you can up the R.P.M. quite a bit maybe up to 20,000 or 21,000
Old 06-11-2017, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
It's a .020 TD and have started it several times. The best performance was 17,000 with a 4.5 x 2 Cox prop. May have missed the actual peak so maybe 18,000 or so. The longest run was about a minute and 40 seconds. That seemed short so I checked the tank by pulling the back plate off and it was dry. Is that a normal run for this engine with the plastic tank? I have seen YouTube video's where the .020 models are running over 5 minutes, but maybe not on the stock tank. What is the capacity of the tank? What size tank should I consider? 1/3 to 1/2 oz is my guess. Suspect the tank may have leaked but only when running.
(i) the tank capacity of the TD 020 is 7.5cc or 0.25 fl oz. The tank size has not altered since the inception of the motor. Sal Taibi produced an aftermarket tank unit (see pic) -but this is of smaller capacity -about 5cc. It does however provide a more rigid mounting. AFAIK there are no other alternatives (other than using an external tank-for which the alternative Cox backplate is provided in the TD020 package when new) I would say 1 min 40 secs on the integral tank is about normal-obviously you can vary this a bit by your choice of fuel and prop size!

(ii) I would not believe any YouTube video that claimed 5 minutes running on a standard Cox TD 020 tank-even on a dieselised version! (assuming that it was running wide open-and not restricted in any way)

(iii) The existing Cox TD020 tank is not a good design-the two point mounting allows too much vibration-and the single screw which retains the backplate is a good candidate for promoting leaks-especially if tightened up to PREVENT leaks! The gasket which provides the tank seal is important-and only fits correctly one way-so care is needed in fitting. I (having suffered with various problems with them for decades) intend to experiment with an epoxy fibreglass disc for a tank backplate in place of the Cox item to see if I can reduce to leakage issues-but they remain an ongoing problem with TD 020s (I have a lot of them-10+ so there are always minor issues cropping up)
(iv) Vibration can rob you of a lot of rpm-so it is important to spend a bit of time and effort balancing props

I would agree wholeheartedly with George's post above-they ARE thirsty little buggers-and the spring starter is about the most effective way of starting them-I do use the electric starter from time to time-but only when they're being difficult! I do however take particular care in keeping my fuel clean-and the tiny venturi jets unblocked-as these can cause a lot of starting and needle setting issues.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi''
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Old 06-12-2017, 07:00 AM
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Default Miller 1/2A starter

Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
They may be listed on their site but I cannot find them for sale anywhere. Nor the miller brand.
Are the Miller starters still even available??
Old 06-12-2017, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ffkiwi View Post
(i) the tank capacity of the TD 020 is 7.5cc or 0.25 fl oz. The tank size has not altered since the inception of the motor. Sal Taibi produced an aftermarket tank unit (see pic) -but this is of smaller capacity -about 5cc. It does however provide a more rigid mounting. AFAIK there are no other alternatives (other than using an external tank-for which the alternative Cox backplate is provided in the TD020 package when new) I would say 1 min 40 secs on the integral tank is about normal-obviously you can vary this a bit by your choice of fuel and prop size!

(ii) I would not believe any YouTube video that claimed 5 minutes running on a standard Cox TD 020 tank-even on a dieselised version! (assuming that it was running wide open-and not restricted in any way)

(iii) The existing Cox TD020 tank is not a good design-the two point mounting allows too much vibration-and the single screw which retains the backplate is a good candidate for promoting leaks-especially if tightened up to PREVENT leaks! The gasket which provides the tank seal is important-and only fits correctly one way-so care is needed in fitting. I (having suffered with various problems with them for decades) intend to experiment with an epoxy fibreglass disc for a tank backplate in place of the Cox item to see if I can reduce to leakage issues-but they remain an ongoing problem with TD 020s (I have a lot of them-10+ so there are always minor issues cropping up)
(iv) Vibration can rob you of a lot of rpm-so it is important to spend a bit of time and effort balancing props

I would agree wholeheartedly with George's post above-they ARE thirsty little buggers-and the spring starter is about the most effective way of starting them-I do use the electric starter from time to time-but only when they're being difficult! I do however take particular care in keeping my fuel clean-and the tiny venturi jets unblocked-as these can cause a lot of starting and needle setting issues.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi''
Thanks, so the fuel consumption and RPM I posted are good? I was wondering because the compression seems a bit soft, but then it is so small I am not sure.
Old 06-12-2017, 05:44 PM
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I would say your run time is average-but your rpm a bit below par. That being said-there is wide variation in outputs from TD020s-they were in production from 1961 to ca 1996-so in a 35 year production you would expect to see some variation. Personally-I would say-the older the better-as the newer examples I have seem to be the worst! That's not to say the plastic bits on the older ones are necessarily good after 3+ decades-they have a tendency to 'craze' and discolour-and get brittle-but the piston cylinder fits and crankshaft to case fits seem to be better in the early ones.[which is entirely logical-the production machinery was a lot newer back in 1961 than in in 1996!]
The published engine tests-PGF Chinn in 'Model Aircraft' and MAN, Ron Warring in 'Aeromodeller' [see: [url=http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Cox%20Tee%20Dee%20020.html]Cox Tee Dee 020 ] had the TD 020 peaking at a bit over 20000rpm-so allowing for unwind in the air, static ground rpm of 18,000 is about right to utilise the available power. You really do not have much to pick from in the way of props-the Cox black or yellow 4.5x2 nylon, the rigid grey Cox 4.5x2 or the APC of around the same size. Avoid the Cox 3-bladed 3-1/8" x 2-1/4" like the plague-they're near impossible to balance-and as I noted in an earlier post-vibration is a real power killer with this engine....its not that it's instrinsically a bad vibrator-as far as engines go-its just that the minimal mounting-and invariably lightweight models its used on-do very little to absorb/dampen vibration when it occurs. I have numerous other engines-mainly diesels-(eg Elfin 1.8 249 and 50-plus the miniatures)-with a similar 2-point mounting-but they don't seem to give the same issues-probably because they're (i) bigger, heavier and more rigid (ii) they're only doing about half the revs of the TD and (iii) they tend to be mounted on more solid models than the TD 020

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

PS If your compression is a bit soft-check that you have a copper head gasket fitted-and if not lay in a supply-from Cox Int'l or one of the other suppliers [you can buy them separately from the glowhead]-and you will probably need to experiment with them to match your engine to your fuel choice. I routinely run mine on 30% nitro-so usually have to fit at least one extra gasket compared with stock. If it becomes baulky to start and hard to needle-this can be indicative of too high a compression ratio-the answer is either to drop the nitro % or add more head gaskets till you find the sweet spot (which should require no more than 1 or 2 extra gaskets) People run these on up to 65% nitro in some contests-and they really sing-but that's pushing the wee thing pretty hard-and you can expect either a short life, to expend quite a few glowheads-or to break something...!

Last edited by ffkiwi; 06-12-2017 at 05:50 PM. Reason: Additional info as postscript
Old 06-21-2017, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sport_Pilot View Post
Ok I have a Cox .020 which I finally got started. But would not restart. Darned easy to flood. Getting tired of flipping. Cannot find a 1/2A starter anywhere. Anybody know of one somewhere. Also will the engine hold up to one if careful?
How was your battery for your glow charger? Could that have been all/part of the problem?
Old 06-22-2017, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by BrightGarden View Post
How was your battery for your glow charger? Could that have been all/part of the problem?
No, fine. Found that unless it had just ran, I needed to keep the glow starter on for a couple of seconds. When clipped on it takes that or more to reach for it, but on 1/2A you are pushing it on the head and I was pulling it off right away. Guess it needs a couple of seconds or it cools off too much.
Old 06-24-2017, 06:54 PM
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I found that as I was spending more time around 1/2A engines, the number 1 nemesis was good power to the glow head. I don't trust the Sub C-cell starters even though I have half a dozen fresh NiMH batteries. A couple of days ago I set up to get a pretty new TD .051 engine running on a pod for a 72" Wanderer. The battery should have been fully charged. I flipped and flipped, got one or two week burps. I had limited time and hung up the job for the day suspecting the glow head charger.
I resurrected a project I started last year, using an eBay voltage regulator and an eBay Voltmeter/Ammeter.
A couple of days ago, I made one unit for glow heads and one for glow plugs.
You can plug any LiPo into it - the voltage reg takes up to 30V, and is rated for 3A - right in the pocket for glow plugs.

Today was the first field test and it worked fine - it is my go-to setup. Anything else I've used is secondary, now.
Pics attached. The digital display is multiplexed so it is hard to read but it reads 1.41 V, 2.31A.
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Old 06-25-2017, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BrightGarden View Post
I found that as I was spending more time around 1/2A engines, the number 1 nemesis was good power to the glow head. I don't trust the Sub C-cell starters even though I have half a dozen fresh NiMH batteries. A couple of days ago I set up to get a pretty new TD .051 engine running on a pod for a 72" Wanderer. The battery should have been fully charged. I flipped and flipped, got one or two week burps. I had limited time and hung up the job for the day suspecting the glow head charger.
I resurrected a project I started last year, using an eBay voltage regulator and an eBay Voltmeter/Ammeter.
A couple of days ago, I made one unit for glow heads and one for glow plugs.
You can plug any LiPo into it - the voltage reg takes up to 30V, and is rated for 3A - right in the pocket for glow plugs.

Today was the first field test and it worked fine - it is my go-to setup. Anything else I've used is secondary, now.
Pics attached. The digital display is multiplexed so it is hard to read but it reads 1.41 V, 2.31A.
Ok - so here is what I have learned over the years of flying - mostly 1/2A stuff. Glow plugs were invented to make real performers out of formerly spark ignition engines back in the 1940's - they removed the spark points and cams from the engine and installed a simple glow plug to provide heat for the new fuel concoction of alcohol, nitromethane and castor oil. as time went by improvements were made in the engines mainly to enhance performance. BUT little was done to the glow plugs except to change the heat range which now runs from cold to hot plugs but they remain essentially the same. The big change was the batteries we use to heat the plugs - back in the day the mobile power source was a 2 volt wet cell or a 1 1/2 volt dry cell , modelers were looking for quick reliable ways to heat the plugs at the flying field so nicads, and nickel batteries started to be used but these batteries only provide 1.2 volts not the 1.5 or 2.0 of the older technologies but the glow plugs hadn't changed and may not be a simple change to make due to the delicate nature of the platinum element used. non rechargeable dry tech batteries like ordinary flashlight batteries of 1.5 volts will heat the plugs hotter for easier starting but will loose their charge quickly at the field . my plan is simple for problem engines, i just use my power panel on the flight box but a plan B could be to use a fresh dry cell flashlight battery or a non-rechargeable Lithium 1.5 volt battery. .
As an aside : Some devices that use AA or AAA batteries don't function well (some not at all) with rechargeable 1.2 volt batteries because their circuitry is designed for a dry 1.5 volt power source.
Old 06-25-2017, 04:20 AM
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I know regular glow plug starters get most people by, the starters with the sub-c batteries, but they just seem to me to be a weak link in the program. Although I am using the 2600mAh LiPo, it is because it is puffed out a bit and redundant, now. I have run the setup with 1300mAh's, and you can go lower. We all seem to have extra LiPo's around so a dead charger is not a threat. Of course, you can use a power panel and a lead acid 12V (wet cell) but that has a single purpose, and the LiPos carry as much capacity. As a backup, I just bought a really, really small power panel that I think is used by car guys - the Dyratrax Kwik-Pit Mini Power Panel DTXP5770. It's about the size of a credit card, at most 3/4" inch thick. I think it would probably deal with a 3S LiPo at 12.6 Volts.
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Old 06-25-2017, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BrightGarden View Post
I know regular glow plug starters get most people by, the starters with the sub-c batteries, but they just seem to me to be a weak link in the program. Although I am using the 2600mAh LiPo, it is because it is puffed out a bit and redundant, now. I have run the setup with 1300mAh's, and you can go lower. We all seem to have extra LiPo's around so a dead charger is not a threat. Of course, you can use a power panel and a lead acid 12V (wet cell) but that has a single purpose, and the LiPos carry as much capacity. As a backup, I just bought a really, really small power panel that I think is used by car guys - the Dyratrax Kwik-Pit Mini Power Panel DTXP5770. It's about the size of a credit card, at most 3/4" inch thick. I think it would probably deal with a 3S LiPo at 12.6 Volts.
By the by - mah or mAh simply refers to how many milliamps of current it has and can release in an hour at a given rate. Voltage is the power or push that a battery has - so a 2600mAh and a 1300mAh will have the same push , or power, at the same voltage but the 1300mAh battery will die sooner given the same load as a 2600mAh battery or even a 3500mAh battery. For more power or push add cells.
Lithium Polymer batteries are 3.7 volts per cell so a 3S liPo is 11.1volts but it's a difference that probably doesn't make a difference through a power panel. BUT for a starter it usually needs a bit more power to spin larger engines. a 12v lead acid battery fresh off the charger usually has a voltage of around 13.8volts and it levels off after awhile to 12.xxx volts. A LiPo at 11.1 volts probably won't spin an engine over 60 against strong compression (I use 14.8 volts) dynatron and Ryobi starters can handle up to 18 volts.

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Old 06-25-2017, 08:04 AM
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In response to the original question

I have the newer Sullivan Hornet (available at several sources---google is your friend)....BUT IT is a TAD pricey

I also had the miss fortune of having to replace a Dremel Motor for a LiOn 8220 tool ( rechargeable bat is 10.8Vdc) due to seized bearing that I could not get off.... replacement part was $14 with bearing

the left over bad bearing motor was still good and will accept 9 to 20 VDC easily.... especially for intermittant use
So I adapted a (sold seperatly) Sullivan Drive hub, and rubber cone, into a PVC tube and suspended 2 OLD 8.4VDC NIMH car bats in parallel and a switch.... Yes Virginia 16.8Vdc makes it spin REAL fast....but hell a brief bump is all that is needed

Now I have one on the power panel bat and one with bat

never ever used on a FLOODED Engine ( certain rod bend)...But when I have to flip more than 4 or 5 tries... zoom...bingo! the Electric finger sure do work well
Old 06-25-2017, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by gmeyers View Post
By the by - mah or mAh simply refers to how many milliamps of current it has and can release in an hour at a given rate. Voltage is the power or push that a battery has - so a 2600mAh and a 1300mAh will have the same push , or power, at the same voltage but the 1300mAh battery will die sooner given the same load as a 2600mAh battery or even a 3500mAh battery. For more power or push add cells.
Lithium Polymer batteries are 3.7 volts per cell so a 3S liPo is 11.1volts but it's a difference that probably doesn't make a difference through a power panel. BUT for a starter it usually needs a bit more power to spin larger engines. a 12v lead acid battery fresh off the charger usually has a voltage of around 13.8volts and it levels off after awhile to 12.xxx volts. A LiPo at 11.1 volts probably won't spin an engine over 60 against strong compression (I use 14.8 volts) dynatron and Ryobi starters can handle up to 18 volts.
Yes, I was referring to glow starters/chargers, not engine starters.
I use the same 4S 2600mAh LiPo with my Dynatron engine starter, so when it comes to starting .40 engines, etc I will just use a smaller capacity LiPo for the glow charger.
I have two 1/2a engine starters - the green Sullivan and the white/black Miller, but I don't really use them. I need to give then another try for situations like fredvon4 mentions, and maybe especially for my horde of Pee Wee's without spring starters.
Old 06-29-2017, 10:33 AM
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Cheap ferrite motors with a lekkie prop adapter and a piece of tubing shoved over the threads for a starter cone work pretty good for me - yes you have to cobble together a switch.

The TD .020 can pull 19k or a bit more on the bench with the 4.5x2 prop, depending on various conditions including variation between examples.
Old 06-29-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MJD View Post
Cheap ferrite motors with a lekkie prop adapter and a piece of tubing shoved over the threads for a starter cone work pretty good for me - yes you have to cobble together a switch.

The TD .020 can pull 19k or a bit more on the bench with the 4.5x2 prop, depending on various conditions including variation between examples.
Yes, and considering that there is a seller on eBay with one each of the Miller, Norvel, and Sullivan starters at $60 apiece, there are easy alternatives. I tried the Miller and it didn't have enough oomph for a TD .051. As discussed, the weakest link to me in successful and consistent starting of Cox engines is in the glow. The power and the glow head have to be there, and they are so often the most questionable link in the chain. Once you clear that up, you remove doubt about the glow status. Then you can figure out if the engine is in good condition, if it isn't starting. Lately, I have had to replace about 75% of the delrin "carb" bodies on .09 TDs and .049/.051 TDs, from UV, chemical, cosmic, or spiritual deterioration - whatever factors that causes them to become brittle and crack. Resetting pistons is the next factor - some used engines I have gotten lately produce a tactile and audible click as you rotate them through. Knock that fix out of the way. Gooped up NVA? Pretty simple to degoop that with the wire bristle/pin, heat, alcohol. At least with TDs, after that you should have a pretty good engine that should pop of by hand starting - at least on warm, not hot or cold, days. The prettiest engines don't always run the best, either!
Attaching a shot of my latest acquisition - diesel, not glow, though.
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Old 06-29-2017, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by BrightGarden View Post
Yes, and considering that there is a seller on eBay with one each of the Miller, Norvel, and Sullivan starters at $60 apiece, there are easy alternatives. I tried the Miller and it didn't have enough oomph for a TD .051. As discussed, the weakest link to me in successful and consistent starting of Cox engines is in the glow. The power and the glow head have to be there, and they are so often the most questionable link in the chain. Once you clear that up, you remove doubt about the glow status. Then you can figure out if the engine is in good condition, if it isn't starting. Lately, I have had to replace about 75% of the delrin "carb" bodies on .09 TDs and .049/.051 TDs, from UV, chemical, cosmic, or spiritual deterioration - whatever factors that causes them to become brittle and crack. Resetting pistons is the next factor - some used engines I have gotten lately produce a tactile and audible click as you rotate them through. Knock that fix out of the way. Gooped up NVA? Pretty simple to degoop that with the wire bristle/pin, heat, alcohol. At least with TDs, after that you should have a pretty good engine that should pop of by hand starting - at least on warm, not hot or cold, days. The prettiest engines don't always run the best, either!
Attaching a shot of my latest acquisition - diesel, not glow, though.
I would seriously suggest there is something wrong with your Miller-or your battery-if it struggles on a TD051! I've had two for well over 20 years-one hand held the other set up for starter box use with a foot switch for starting F1J models-and never encountered issues even with the F1J engines. Admittedly mine were both purchased brand new-and second hand starters have often suffered from hard use and neglect!
I own and have used the following 1/2A starters: Astroflite,, Miller, Norvel, Sullivan Hornet and a homemade-so I have plenty of personal experience to make direct comparisons: the Miller is by far the best of the bunch FOR 1/2A and smaller use-if you need to tackle slightly larger engines up to .10 or .12 say-then the Sullivan Hornet is the best choice-but of course at the other end of the scale-the 010 and 020s-it is a bit bulky. I cannot recommend the Norvel starter at all-I found it to be both rough in operation and poorly made, while the Astroflite is fairly rough in operation but durable. Arguably the best (for the original posters purpose) would have been the Globee 'Stinger' self contained unit-but these are decades out of production-and even if you could source a second hand one on Ebay (and they are rare even there!) you might well have difficulty getting the appropriate replacement batteries for it-which AFAIK were 2V Gates style gel cells-probably 3 in series going by the length of the handle.

ChrisM
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Old 06-29-2017, 05:40 PM
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BrightGarden
 
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I won't be able to get to it in the next bunch of days, but I will pull the Miller out and give it another go to see if it is as bad as I remember. I have a brand new Hornet to compare it to, also. Maybe I will be hooked and never stop using them. On the other hand, it seems like a good cottage industry to modernize the design and produce a good starter, these days.
Old 06-29-2017, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BrightGarden View Post
I won't be able to get to it in the next bunch of days, but I will pull the Miller out and give it another go to see if it is as bad as I remember. I have a brand new Hornet to compare it to, also. Maybe I will be hooked and never stop using them. On the other hand, it seems like a good cottage industry to modernize the design and produce a good starter, these days.

the Miller and the Hornet are both good-within their application range-but you're not comparing apples with apples-the Hornet is really an '06-15' sized starter whereas the Miller is a true '1/2A and smaller' starter-where the Miller scores is that it has specific moulded inserts for 010, 020 and 05 sizes (the 05 one being double ended like the large full size starters, for either a prop nut or spinner. A lot of the issues with small starters seem to occur because the rubber inserts are not appropriately sized-and people have trouble centreing an oversized insert. I tend to use my Miller for the small stuff and the Hornet for 09, 10 and 12s-it will even handle a 'cooking' 15 without protest....but I would not expect it to handle a high compression 15 like a Rossi or Nelson.

Personally I think anyone who could reintroduce something like the Fusite Stinger I mentioned previously would be onto a real winner-it was so natural to use-like holding a chicken stick or torch-and with modern Lipos-which are available in hardcase, cylindrical formats (though not often seen in hobby use in this format) youd have 7.4-8.2V available to the motor (which I assume-never having seen one in the flesh) was a 380 sized brushed unit-something like a Graupner Speed 400-which were as most here will recall-available in 4.8, 6 and 7.2V windings.....in fact the more I think about it-the more I think that it would be not too difficult to knock up a homemade equivalent using a bit of PVC plumbing pipe as the housing...and you can get matching PVC end caps to make the job easier, as well

ChrisM
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:12 PM
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What about just using a cordless screwdriver like this one?
It is 130 rpm, BTW.
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