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Cleveland Model Parkflyer Racers

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Cleveland Model Parkflyer Racers

Old 11-19-2020, 07:53 PM
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Rob11
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Default Cleveland Model Parkflyer Racers

Hey guys,
Im Rob, was wondering if anybody out there is as interested in making park flyers out of the plans you can get from cleveland models, I had started a Laird Turner Meteor scratchbuild at the beginning of this your, but decided to abandon the build due to lack of decision as wether to turn it into a control line model or RC. In the end, i ended up giving it to my son the last time I saw him, before my x wife ran with my children. but I am planning a new build of the same original cleveland plans, a few questions that ill have to answer first would be, am i still going to with the 1/12th scale plans like the first build, and am I going to get another FMS B-25 prop and hub set and try to cast them in aluminum(these are exact to scale on the 1/12th scale plans), Do I really want to stay with the Hobby Lobby 2" pine wheels like the first build, am I going to scratchbuild a freewheel like the first build, or just leave a pine slid in rear. Do i want to use 3/32" balsa for ribs and formers like the first build, or go with 1/32" bass instead for added strength, and hopefully less weight, do i want to add an access hatch on top of the fuselage like the first build, or just use the canopy for a hatch, since the first build was majorly nose heavy with the norvel .074 sticking waaaaay out front like scale appearance, do i want to stick with the engine box mount or change up the mount to a bass or pine stock mount to save weight, i think if I did this, the fuel tank would be force more to the rear which would help the CG and not need so much weight in the rear, Do I want to totally conceal the aileron servos, or just have holes in the wings that they slide into? Do I want to stick with the brodak metal tank, or go plastic? and does anyone have any opinion on the sticker printer paper you can get from Hobby Lobby. I was thinking that i could google the decals that are in color and print them on the sticker paper, then apply them to the model. and yes gentlemen, this will be a Balsa, silkspan and dope model, I want to build it as close the original model kit in the 30's, with just a couple changes, like an engine and some radios, I have seriously been thinking of switching to bass wood for the frame, but the glue i make, doesn't adhere and hold well to hardwoods, so i am torn, not that im a junky like some of these horrible people today, but the smell is nostalgic to me, looks orange, like the original too, the glue company went out of business years ago, so ive been making my own ever since, and it holds balsa solid, the balsa will break before the glued joint will.
Old 11-28-2020, 08:27 AM
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Lots of things to reply to here. 1. Lots of people have built to Cleveland plans, even to the point of scaling them up to quarter scale. The caveat here is that many of those airplanes were intended as rubber powered free flight and will need some re-engineering for RC.
2. Casting a prop from aluminum? While this would be very visually appealing, metal props are generally discouraged and you might not be able to fly it at an AMA sanctioned field.
3. Hobby Lobby pine wheels. Other than being relatively heavy there isn't any particular reason not to try. They will probably get pretty beat up if you are flying from any sort of pavement. I presume you are talking about a tail skid. If you are hand launching or flying from grass a tail skid will work okay. If you are flying from pavement a tailwheel works much better for ground handling.
4. The Meteor presents a bit of a challenge in terms of access, especially at smaller scale. At 1/12 scale it is small enough to build as a one piece model but you are going to need an actual hatch to get the fuel tank, receiver, etc. far enough forward. With regard to the fuel tank I would definitely go with a plastic tank with a clunk. The metal tank will sort of work but they are generally meant for control line where the fuel slings to the outside of the tank.
5. My personal preference is for mini servos in the wing.
6. The outdoor grade of Oracal sticker material seems to hold up well. I have also had good luck with the waterslide decal paper with a fuel proofer.
7. I have often substituted bass or spruce for balsa where the structure seems particularly prone to hanger rash but even a harder grade of balsa will help in that regard. Just remember weight is the enemy of small airplanes. There is a lot to be learned by review the plans for similar sized models over on the Outerzone or Hip Pocket Aeronautics.
8. I can't really comment on the effectiveness of your home made glue but I will say that I have at least six different flavors of adhesive out in the shop.
Good luck with your project.
Old 11-29-2020, 08:52 PM
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well i guess this site is not going to let me post photos here until we have ten messaged in this thread, so i guess i dont mind talking a little more. my goal with these kits is to breing back 1/2A flying and make so fun out of it with a golden age kind of style, and use them as parkflyers almost anywhere, i wouldnt have given this a second though if i could get scale props for these great looking models, aluminum is just the best material i could come up with to cast a prop that would stand up to a little 74. the only scale props i can find are for electric motors, which we all know wont hold up to a little 1/2A engine. but id really prefer to cast these good looking scale propellers out of nylon, as some glow rc props are made of i think, but i have no clue if you can even cast nylon
Old 11-30-2020, 11:35 AM
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Yeah, you are going to have to grind a bit to get to the minimum number of posts. Go compliment a few peoples' builds. When you talk about props are you referring to the multi-piece items where individual blades are assembled into a hub? I would expect those to have a hard time holding up to any engine. Yes, there are some for larger engines but by the time you get down to half-a size the hub is going to be pretty fragile. As for casting your own props I have seen some home made props with carbon reinforcement in these forums. If I remember correctly it was someone who was making small diameter props for speed runs. Of course you can always make scale props for display and then swap out to a commercial prop for flying.
Going back to modifying a Cleveland design, you are probably looking at formers and stringers for construction. Often the cowl is not a separate structure. The front of the cowl is the first former of the fuselage. You may have to redefine the second former or whatever falls close to where you want the firewall as the first former of the fuselage structure and then build some sort of cowling in front of that. On various conversions of rubber or vintage designs a lot of people sheet the forward part of the fuselage. I'm currently building an enlarged Knight Twister from a 1940's Air Trails plan. There is nothing insurmountable but you do have to plan ahead to account for modern engine mounts, fuel tanks sized for R/C rather than control or free flight and to make accommodations for the radio equipment.
Old 11-30-2020, 12:43 PM
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Really ten messages?

Old 11-30-2020, 12:44 PM
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Cough what is 10 anyways...
Old 11-30-2020, 12:52 PM
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Looks like so far there are 7 posts already on this subject of racing. 2 more post and
the 10th post can have photos perhaps, The author of the thread may need to make
10 posts on the forum since your new here.

Just scale the design for .049 - .051 if the Norvel 074 was too big.







Old 11-30-2020, 08:51 PM
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Thank you guys so much for your interest and input, and yeah, I used to be a cox fan, that is until I found the NV .061 and 74, I figured id have too at least use the .074 just to be able to swing that massive cheap plastic FMS 4 blade, of which I'm having to cut the yellow off to make it a 9"er to match the diameter of the prop on the plans. by the way, these plans, I don't think I've ever seen another free flight plan like it. To me the detail and construction is amazing, second to none for the time if you ask me. For a first time builder young boy in the 30's, I'm not sure how they managed, most of the building instructions are on the plans themselves, but in the end, i absolutely fell in love with them, and this thread is sort of an experiment, i just wanted to see how many people would be interested in 1/2A golden age racing, these are my favorite racer of any. I guess I would look at it as arts and crafts tinker toy model racing? Something small and cheap enough that you can build it on your writing desk in the corner of your bedroom, take it to the park and race around cones on the bases with your friends an a nice day, you know. As far as the prop issue goes, the only option that i can see I have is the FMS electric 3-bladers, and they are a single piece, with hub halves that sandwich together and the dome screws onto the engine shaft to complete the Prop hub look, the hub is 3 pieces in all, 4 if you count the prop too. In these plans we are looking at basic balsa and pine truss construction and just a little fabric, luckily the cowl is separate from the fuselage, I'd expect nothing less from Cleveland models, I have nothing but good to say about them and i wish i had more lol. For the firewall, on the last model, i just built the firewall from the plans and glued a piece of 1/16" sheet bass on the front and make a box mount for the engine, but i don't think I'll be doing that this time to save weight, as i said above, my last build was waaaaay too nose heavy unfortunately, and then the fuel tank( Brodak 3 3/4oz Tin) slid foward into the engine mounting box, i think ill go with the 2 1/2oz this time to save space and weight. this tanks are quite nice though, but you will pay for the nostalgia though, and the nostalgia of RC building and flying is what I love. As for radios, i was thinking of some of the 6300's receivers and using some 1.7 gram box servos mounted in the wings and fuselage, but im really thinking of going up to some 2 gram servos, I found some on nitrorcx.com, but dont know much of the brand, but it sure beats buying no namers off of Aliexpress(YUCK). As far as scaling the planes to a particular engine, this particular plane works quite well for the little engines, especially since I am only interested in 1/2A golden age racing. thoughts guys? anybody else interested in building one of these models and getting a new racing thing going, thoughts?? and ill send photos of the last version as soon as it lets me.
Old 11-30-2020, 09:00 PM
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Also, I know I said 4-blade prop, and yes i meant to say that, this idea stemmed from a youtube video with a ecom rc ltr-14 with a moki radial and a massive biela 4-blader mounted on the front, looked pretty dang mean if you ask me, ive loved it ever since, but the 3-blade prop with hub definitely completes the scale look.
Old 12-01-2020, 08:54 AM
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They don't call them "Golden Age Racers" for nothing. I'm looking forward to seeing your photos. With regard to the FMS props, I am going to urge some caution. Even with the prop cut down to a size that the .074 will spin I would worry about the prop throwing a blade. It's not the horsepower or the RPM that will do it it is the vibration. An electric motor has a relatively smooth level of torque throughout the entire revolution while a fuel engine has a single pulse of power that accelerates the crankshaft at each revolution. This force flexes the propeller blade right at the root. On a relatively flexible prop like the FMS the blade will fatigue and break. I don't like to be a spoil sport but even the least bad case of throwing a blade isn't pretty.
Old 12-01-2020, 08:25 PM
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well guys, hopefully this site meant 10 posts in general on this thread and not just my posts, im going to try and post some pictures for you guys, stand by for a min
Old 12-01-2020, 08:29 PM
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dang, still no luck, this dang site must mean 10 of my posts on here, grrrrr
Old 12-02-2020, 02:22 AM
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Only 4 posts to go Rob
Old 12-02-2020, 06:28 AM
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Oh my goodness I know, and the site only allows you to do five postings within 24 hours
Old 12-02-2020, 08:23 AM
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The posting thing is an inconvenience but I think its purpose is to cut down on the spammers. They are a much bigger inconvenience.
Old 12-02-2020, 09:31 AM
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I suppose that makes sense, has anyone here ever built going to Clevelandís models??
Old 12-02-2020, 09:56 AM
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I have not, but one more reply here and you're up to 10!

Old 12-02-2020, 11:35 AM
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Yep almost a drum roll moment in the making
Old 12-03-2020, 07:40 AM
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Good morning gentlemen, they should be number nine, Indeed yes drumroll, It seems like this takes forever
Old 12-03-2020, 07:41 AM
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Hope yíall get this

Old 12-03-2020, 08:49 AM
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That's a handsome little bird.
Old 12-03-2020, 08:52 AM
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Hang in there guys, I donít know how many posts Iím still allowed today, but I have about 40 of progressive build pics Iíll try to send, Iíll try right now, but no promises
Old 12-03-2020, 09:08 AM
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Default Pics


































Old 12-03-2020, 09:13 AM
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Default In some of the photos you can see the glue Iíve made

You can see the glue I make in some of the photos, looks damn near like the old one, carries the same nostalgic scent too.
Old 12-03-2020, 02:49 PM
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When you say home made glue are you talking about nitrocellulose cement?

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