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1/2 A Engines

Old 06-24-2002, 01:50 PM
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geink
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Default 1/2 A Engines

How does the Norvel engines compare with the Cox TD .049 and .051 , in RPM, weight, construction, and usable prop size.
Does anybody still do 1/2 A pylon races. Thanks in advance.
Old 06-24-2002, 06:00 PM
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fastlash
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Default 1/2a

Don't waste your time with the cox, there is no compareing them, cox lost the battle for 1/2a engine design the day norvel came out,not only that but the new cox cost more and are out dated,Once again an American company let a foreign design beat them out of a market , gett'in lazy America
Old 06-24-2002, 06:34 PM
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bigbri
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Default 1/2 A Engines

Cox lost the battle long before the Norvel. I am now getting into small aircraft because of the Norvel. Prior to this trying to get a Cox engine to start and run well wasn't worth the effort. We won't even discuss hearing loss from the Cox engines....
Norvel.....hands down !!!!!
Brian
Old 06-24-2002, 11:05 PM
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matchlessaero
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Default ......how to respond.....?

I guess people just love to bash things that they cannot understand........

Regarding the question of Norvel vs Cox, I guess it just depends on what you like/intend to do.
Norvel, and the old cox TD's are both quality engines (I won't speak about the quality of the new Coxes, because I don't own one that is less than 12 years old.)

Here are some things to consider:

If you need a muffler where you are flying, the Norvel is the way to go, they truly do have a good muffling system and their sound is not quite so objectionable to most when using the muffler.

If you need a throttle, the norvel is the easy way to go, the Cox is the more difficult way. Norvel rc engines will throttle OK out of the box. Cox's require a throttle sleeve to throttle OK, and a few mods to make them throttle well.

Regarding Power, I not yet seen a Norvel .049 or .061 that can outrun my Cox TD.049's.... That day may come, but it has not yet.

Bottom line- The Norvel is the easy way to go. (nothing inherently wrong with that)
The Cox can be the more difficult way, but some of the fun is the challenge (right? )

Good luck!
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Old 06-24-2002, 11:53 PM
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fastlash
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Default not bashing to be bashing

I played with the TEE DEEs for years and yes I did get them to perform quite well, reworking the cyld. and crank as well as using ace upgrades, but If you have ever done any norvel, mods, you would know that the norvel will out run it by a big margin, you just havn't come up one against one yet, but it will happen, norvel .061, Texaco head, 3 shims- crank retimed and relevied and polished, bypass cleaned up %50 nirto with %22 oil apc 5.7 x 3 23,900 revs and yes it stays together, I have a bunch off cox blown rods I can send you, as well as the constant reset of the top end ball.So yes I do understand what Iam talking about and I don't need to make statements insulting others to get to get my point across,
Old 06-25-2002, 01:50 AM
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Default 1/2 A engines

Fastlash,

do you know any websites or magazine articles that discuss the Norvel mods your talking about?

Thanks,

MarkD
Old 06-25-2002, 01:53 AM
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Default 1/2A engines

Fastlash,

do you know of any websites and/or magazine articles that discuss the Norvel mods you have mentioned?

Thanks,

MarkD
Old 06-25-2002, 03:04 AM
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fastlash
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Default Mods

No , all of my mods are from my own training in the 2 stroke and design & therory that I studied years ago when I used to build racing go-kart engs and later Marine out boards for competeion , a lot of it is common since, but some you need some design theory to play with the crank and port timing , but if you are willing to pull it down and do some very simple deburring and polishing and a little crank Radiusing, you will get a worth while gain, smooth out the fuel track thru the crank ,stay away from the chrome liner a mistake there will cause the chrome to peel if not cleaned up with the proper methoed protect the crank pin at all cost or you end up with junk , then comes the hard part and that is matching your fuel, prop and com pression for what is the condition that you are flying under air temp, altitude, airframe drag > weight, so it is a play with it thing if I run across and sites I will let you know, fastlash, ( a name given to me by others not one I came up )( old BSA racer!!!)
Old 06-25-2002, 03:16 AM
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matchlessaero
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Default My apologies....

Fastlash, please accept my apologies, I guess I generalized some of my local experiences to you. I too have run Coxes for years (around 20) and have many of the same blown rod ends that I could send to you...... In my club everyone badmouths the cox engines that I run and constantly tries to convince me to run a Norvel. All of these guys are the people that had one bad experience with a Cox reedvalve 10 years ago and gave up on it. They then generalize their one bad experience to all Coxes.

Though I don't own a Norvel, I have helped enough people set them up to know they are good quality engines....

That all being said, I still think most people are overly harsh on Cox engines.....


Next time you are in the South, you need to stop by my field and we will have some racing.....
Old 06-25-2002, 03:25 AM
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fastlash
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Default It be cool

I know what you mean, and I also know of guys that post things that they have read and have no hands on experience , Ahh but thats web life, like your GLH, Iam in the middle of a Dominator 200, just remember all you guys out there reading this stuff that 1/2as are a little more trouble some than your sport 40, but if you stick with it and follow simple guide lines ( like the instuction manuel)you will have a ball once you get it down, and people just love to watch these little buggers go,
Old 08-07-2002, 03:23 PM
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papo
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Default cox teedee carb .049

home made carb & muffler Plane
this thing was fast very fast
until i had a crash which broke
the engine

I am making another one stay tune

www.columbia.edu/~rlp1
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Old 08-09-2002, 05:20 AM
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emenot
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Default Hey Papo

I am new to this forum please excuse my ignorance! I am also new to these small demons. Where can I find a plane with line such as yours, she looked like a small Q40. Please advise.

Star-Rider
Old 08-09-2002, 11:31 AM
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papo
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Default Re: Hey Papo

Originally posted by Star-Rider
I am new to this forum please excuse my ignorance! I am also new to these small demons. Where can I find a plane with line such as yours, she looked like a small Q40. Please advise.

Star-Rider

it is a Q40 style you can't find it in the market because it is
homemade I cut my own wings out of foam the plane is
also foam which i shaped then covered with fiberglass
Old 08-09-2002, 06:25 PM
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emenot
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Default 1/2 A Engines

I have recently acquired an electric Dago Mustang with 24" glass fuse and 30"balsa skinned foam airfoil, I can't find any info on this cute ship and would like to convert to glow. Anyone ran across such plane as I am looking to get another new one.

Star-Rider
Old 08-10-2002, 02:44 AM
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fastlash
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Default Dago stang

the plane is made by K&A models unlimited, Sheldons hobbies has them in Ca. 110$ they also make a sloper,----- fastlash out
Old 08-10-2002, 03:35 AM
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emenot
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Default 1/2 A Engines

Thanks Fastlash! I will check it out.
BTW, check out www.spadtothebone.com you would be sorry!

Star-Rider
Old 08-13-2002, 04:16 PM
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sharp333
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Default 1/2 A Engines

To Fastlash:

what is yourrecommended procedure to clean up chrome sleeve after changing ports?
Tks.
Old 08-15-2002, 12:24 PM
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FrancisPerson
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Default 1/2 A engine to try

I have a MP JET .061 r/c diesel that is quite powerful especially on 6" props. It has two ball bearings and a twin needle carb! The diesel version is no longer available but the glow version is and is reported to be very powerful especially on 25% nitro.
Old 08-17-2002, 06:39 PM
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dennis
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Default 1/2 A Engines

Of course if we all want to go as fast as possible then there is only one motor to use. That is the Cyclon, Made in eastern Europe in limited numbers, the darling of the 1/2A combat crowd. Believe me this is a fine motor but at $150.00 is should be.
Seriously just made the comments above to show how far you can get into anything if you really want to be FAST, or competative. And yes the Cox is really stone age, its a 30 year old design and can't hold up to the newer stuff out there. It's ball and socket set up was always the weak link, and nothing can be done to it to bring it up to modern contemporary standards. As far as Estes ever doing anything to improve the motors, well I wouldn't hold my breath.
Norvel is continuously improving their product. They have gained market share by listening to their customers , and responding to their needs, unlike Estes/Cox who are really coasting into oblivion.
But there are a lot of specialty motors available that the free flight and C/L guys use that can really make mincmeat of a norvel.
Old 08-25-2002, 02:41 AM
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tinsink
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Default 1/2 A Engines

Folks, I just got back inot modelling after a 25 year absence.
I went down to the basement and pulled out some 25-30 year old
planes. One of them is a scratch built motor glider with the original
TD .049 on it. I cleaned it up and put a radio in it. The TD was always a challenge to start by hand. I now use an electric starter-
no problem now. This is probably the first .049 this r/c club has seen in 20 years (everyone flies much bigger engines). The consensus was " that thing is really fast", "look at it climb!" and the guy that hand launched it for me said you can really feel it pull! I don't know how much better the other 1/2A engines are but this thing has a lot of power for its size. Unless you are in some competition this engine will fly any 1/2A size plane with
authority. I will say that it is loud and does not have a throttle
but as far as power is concerned what more do you want? Put a
.10 or .15 in the plane if you need a rocket ship.
Old 08-27-2002, 03:29 AM
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Default Which engine to get/plane as well...

When I was first getting into this hobby, I was considering what I would get, a small glow plane or a sailplane. Well, I decided that if I were to get a glow engine, it would be the Norvel. It was priced excellently, had an R/C version, and I could predict it being more reliable. I've never had a TD, but the only glow engine I ever had was a Cox black widow. Boy did that thing stink. I could barely get it started (lots of work/time), and it wasn't of particularly high quality. It wasn't long before the glow plug was done for, that was when I stopped. I would have gotten a norvel because it was already getting high remarks, and the glow plugs were cheaper. The lowest price I've seen for a cox glow plug was somewhere over six dollars. The norvel glow plugs are by far cheaper and use a superior plug warmer than Cox's. The TD could be better than what I experienced, but Norvel all the way, or Cyclone! If you want a great plane for your engine, get an electric plyon racing plane. They are sleeker, commonly better designed, and are very clean in the air. Either get a VIP, a Switchback, Sokol, or Stinger for an elec to glow conversion. The VIP, Sokol, and Stinger are all hollow molded, providing the most accurate plane. I have an electric Stinger, and it does laps around many other glow planes. It's very light as an electric, making it super-ultra light for glow. The hollow molded planes make a sound that no other plane is capable of, unless your engine is really noisy! Get a Stinger, just be careful with something like a cyclone as with a high performance electric motor it's capable of 130 mph, and that's not from a dive. I love mine!
Old 08-28-2002, 07:54 PM
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2fast4u
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Default 1/2 A Engines

Ok, so where do you get these sweet looking planes e-sailpilot86? What price range are we talking about?
Old 09-02-2002, 03:59 AM
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e-sailpilot86
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Default 1/2 A Engines

$150 for the Stinger, however it used to be cheaper. http://www.f3x.com
I-care R/C, something else and a few others have it. Do a search, you can also try the Hummer, it's $170 but comes with pushrods and other goodies installed. I heard it takes a while to recieve a Hummer, the Stinger can come pretty quick. I think most people fear them because of the advanced tracking skills necessary to pilot it. That's why they're not hard to get, nobodys buying it! I don't have a problem, but everyone at the glow field watches it fly and thinks it's awsome! With a stock speed 400 I did a very very fast pass yesterday. Must have been on the order of 100-130 mph out of a tall steep dive, low in the air (10 feet) and rolling into a semi knife-edge to exit. People said things I don't think they expected to say in public! They all got that childish gutteral tickling laugh that defines rotflmao. You'd love the howling, screeching shrilling sound it emits. I admit, I was pretty shakey on the first flight! Watch the torque coming from that motor! Try the other companies but not F3X. They're going to be out till after 9/10/02.
Old 07-24-2004, 10:13 PM
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Default RE: 1/2 A Engines

Ok let's vote Cox TD 049 vs norvel (new hot version)
Cox TD 074 vs Norvel (new hot version)
Cox babe bee .049 (throttle sleeved) vs Norvel big mig(std .049 with throttle)

pick for total power output not just rpm or torque...
Old 07-24-2004, 11:25 PM
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Default RE: ......how to respond.....?

HEY MATCH! That's a beautiful GLH! That was my first hot plane and I used it to send many TDs to their grave with it. Had to finally retire the plane due to fuel soakage[]. I'd like to get my hands on GLH plans and build another. You know that I bad mouth COX just to rile up you and DB and maybe a few others. I used to get over 30K on the ground with them in CL combat and they would last a couple of weekends with cut [way]down 5-3 props. I never will totally write them off because you can find them all over for $10 to $20 practically new, a guy would be foolish to pay retail for one. I'm surprised to hear that you don't own any NORVELS![X(]! At least with a NORVEL you only have to clean one side of the plane. You showed a lot of class with your apology to FASTLASH, I know you were only teasing but there is some generic truth to your statement, and it used to apply to me before I learned from others how to make the TDs good engines. The ESTES replacement piston/liner sets that I have gotten were garbage, the piston slides out the top with no effort.

GITTARPICK, for the typical modeler who just wants something that is ready to run and is cheap, the nod goes to NORVEL and AP HORNET[CHINESE NORVEL] .049s are a waste of money compared to the .061s unless you are competing in a .05 size limit event.

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