combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

A well meaning friend sent a copy of the GUILLOWS FOCKE WOLFE 190 for me to cut a kit from and build [thanks ALOT SR77 [>:]]. Several painstaking hours later, all the bulkhead halves, ribs, notches, etc. have been lovingly traced on to contest wood, and cut by the old #11. Here is the wing, it has 26 inches of span. It seems pretty rubbery, so I think this plane will just be BABYBEE powered. I redrew all 12 ribs to change from a flat bottom airfoil to semi-symetrical. At last count, I think there are 2000 glue joints in this wing and a half bottles' worth of CA. Hey, SR77, how are you coming on yours'?

dbacque

My Feedback: (3)

I look back at the last 40 years of building and think "This is what we used for *learning* to build!"

But go to the field, look around and you'll almost always find that the best builders started with stick and tissue rubber free flight.

Very nice work Combatpigg!

Dave

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for the compliment, DAVE! This build is bringing back old memories too, gotta remind myself to keep drinking more to keep that from happening Hard to imagine putting a bunch of work into one of these, then just power it up and let it go []!

Strykaas

Species becoming extinct [&o]. Even the great builders I know can't resist to ARF urge... Having a nice airplane flying in so little time lure them [sm=spinnyeyes.gif][&o][&o]

Keep the faith , combatPig !

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The real shame is that building planes has never been easier, with photocopy centers, internet access to the best supplies and information, CA glues, ready made fittings and hardware for every size plane, etc.

SERCEFLYER

CP,

Are you planning for a Babe Bee-powered free-flight, or RC? I've seen a lot of examples of electric Guillow conversions on the other forums, but few seem to have made successful glow conversions. I'm wondering if even a Babe Bee is a little too much?

I'd love to see you do it. An RC Guillows model was always my dream when I was a kid.

George

eroc144

My Feedback: (1)

Gasp! Tell me it isn't so. [X(] CP building a Guillows kit??? Lest you forget here's one of your recent quotes about my own Guillows Zero RC conversion: " Only a masochist would build a working glow powered model from all of those little bits and pieces though. Too much work and definitely the slow boat to CHINA."

Welcome back to the Guillows RC team!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Hi GEORGE! I thought this was / is routine stuff? I am going to have rudder and elevator control. The model is pretty fragile, so a .020 would be the engine of choice, but I don't have a good running specimen, so it will be powered by a product engine and 6x2 prop.

EROK, I was thinking about the masochist thing while working in the frigid garage, gluing my fingers to all those little bits and pieces of wood ! I've stayed pretty faithful to the stock build, except for thicker stringers and lite ply wing saddles. The canopy and cowl will be done out of fiberglass and CA, using foam for a mold.

scudrunner77

Whoa! Wait just a minute... I did not think you were going to make a kit with those plans...! Should I feel guilty or something??[sm=confused.gif]I was thinking you would take the dimensions and do a sheet wing version... But hey it looks great! Your pounding that out faster then I could cut out the die crushed. To stiffen it up you could sheet the whole thing with 1/32 and then just paint it. I saw this in another RC forum. What are you going to do for the cowl and canopy? On the flip side of the plans(which you don't have) they show a TEE DEE 049 for C/L and also a picture of a PEE WEE .020 for free flight. So my bet is your going to be fine with the product engine. This makes me want to stay up all night and start on mine This is one war bird you won't see at Reno, but with two of them going a doubt we could resist the temptation to hug some poles.[>:]

scudrunner77

They also said to "raise the tips 1" in addition to the standard dihedral for an R/C version.[:-] Time to get the band saw out?!?!?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I cut most of the pieces out while watching the SEAHAWKS destroy [ 42-0 [X(] ] PHILLY on MNF, so does this mean that I have to cut kits out during the rest of their games, so the spell doesn't get broken? []

So, I have to add 1" more to each wing tip? What I have now looks about right, but I want this plane to roll. Another inch for each tip will make the plane look a little cartoonish, but it has to perform well.

For the cowl and canopy, I'll carve them out of foam, then fiberglass & CA over the foam, break the foam out, and out comes light and easy to make parts.

A sheet version would be more difficult with this big round fuselage, than the MUSTANG was to do. For racing, I'll just stay with the MUSTANGS, that plane was almost too easy to build, especially if a vacuform top deck gets done, then it would be a slam dunk to build others.

scudrunner77

Yea... It sure would look silly with that much dihedral. Um... maybe add ailerons?

And yes you better get your #11 ready of the next Hawks game... there's a lot of people counting on you!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Ailerons might make the most sense now. A rudder sure would be simple, I have zero experience with setting up a low winger with rudder for roll control, so GUILLOWS must know a little bit more about their plane than I do.

scudrunner77

Well you got me going.... I cut out all my pieces. Only need to remake two ribs (the smallest ones).

eroc144

My Feedback: (1)

CP - Please take pictures when you do the foam cowl so I can try it on my Guillows Zero (which is waiting in my 15F garage right now). You're making great progress - It's amazing how much faster and easier these kits build with CA. I remember doing a few of them as a kid with t pins and titebond, which was an absolute nightmare.

SR77 - I sheeted the wing on my Zero and it IS a rock. Plan to do the same with the fuse, although weight is starting to be an issue so I'm watching my wing loading carefully.

eroc

PS - Since I'm from around Philly I'll have to do my best to break the Hawk's spell!

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Do NOT sheet it. Heavy is bad. The only chance you really have with this is to keep it really light so it does not kill itself on landing. NOT try to make it strong enough to survive landings, but to make it LIGHT enough to survive landings.

Ailerons, for sure. Don't waste your time with rudder.

I built the 16" one, too, for RC! It was FANTASTIC, with a -50 sized electric motor, elevator, and ailerons. FAST, like 50mph. Furious and frightening, and only six hours from box to paint.

SERCEFLYER

The Guillow kits are challenging: the mounts are inadequate, canopies need to be revised, some areas need strengthening, some lightening. The kit itself is tough, and when trying a conversion, a hundred mini-crises seem to pop up out of nowhere. It IS tougher to convert one of their kits than just working from scratch.

BUT-- and this is a big BUT-- that's the whole point. It's the challenge of converting kits that were barely meant to fly under rubber power. And, I like messing with Guillow kits out of a sense of nostalgia. They were in every toy store-- I used to dream about having a little RC Guillow s model. When I was a kid my head would have spun at the thought of putting a micro radio and a 049 engine on one of their kits. I didn't have the ability or means back then.

The photo in my avatar was an attempt at a Guillow Cessna Skyhawk 172 nitro conversion.

George

scudrunner77

CP- I'm thiking solid tail features... what about you?

Easytiger- here is the thread I started. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441921
I was asking about doing an e-conversion for this kit. Pictured are a couple that are fully sheeted 400 series Guillow's... he claims they fly great.

BMatthews

Lovely work there CP. I know you like your department store mylar but in this case I wonder if the extra skin stiffness (not strength, just stiffness) from a Gen-U-Wine tissue and dope finish would be the best call for this one.

If you want to go the 020 PeeWee route I've got a couple that run. If you like I'll loan you one until you either get tired of the FW or find your own engine or figure out that the toned down 049 will actually work. Of course if you need to add nose weight then it could just as easily be with a big engine.

A trick from the "old days" was to add a sheet metal strap clamp around the exhaust with a little hole or two just big enough to let the engine perform with the amount of power you want. The hole size for toning down the PeeWee to run a 16 inch Guillows was in the order of .045 as I recall. Something similar would be nice for your FW.

I also vote for ailerons as well as something like the Sure Start but with the cylinder replaced with a single bypass Baby Bee one to tone it down. The product backplate would let you use a balloon tank so it would fly inverted. You could mod the model for ailerons by cutting down the existing trailing edge by about 1/2 the width and add some 3/8 wide strip ailerons made from rock hard wood so they at least stand a faint chance of not flexing too much.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

SR77, I think solid 1/8" will work for the tail, try to pick a weight that is light, but stiff enough. Avoid overly light, wormy stuff. At the hobby store you have in AUBURN, they might have something in their balsa rack that resembles good wood.

Bruce, thanks for the offer, I really appreciate that, [ for the .020] but I'd rather take your advice and tone down the .049. The nose on this model is pretty short, so it should work out. The sub trailing edge that I cut in for the ailerons is also acting like a structural member, now the wing seems strong enough for active duty. I have been clinging onto a roll of OD GREEN monokote for years, this is probably what I'll use, tissue just isn't practical where I fly.

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Solid tail, yes. Pick light wood, is all.
Fully sheeted, well, it's going to weigh more. Even if you do a lot of internal work to lighten it. Just how it is.
You can sheet a few areas, like around the nose and wing roots, but I think you will be happier with the lighter machine.
Think about some basswood or hard balsa longerons in stress areas, 1/16 balsa longerons break very easily, like where you hold the plane for launching, and if you are monokoting it(good plan), the balsa stringers will often bow as the monokote shrinks.
You are on the right track all around, I just would not get into sheeting the whole plane, it WILL weigh considerably more than the open structure.
Also, call guillows, you can buy the cowl and canopy for cheap, beats moldign them....

eroc144

My Feedback: (1)

I agree with George - the conversion challenge is the point with these kits! I built enough "normal" kits in my youth and with my son now that I'm back in this hobby to know I can do them well, and these "ad-hoc" projects give my brain a much needed workout.

Weight is certainly one of the major enemies with these kits, and structural integrity is another. I've weighed my parts before and after sheeting, and the 1/32" balsa will add less than an ounce to the total RTF weight on my Zero. This translates into slightly more than 1 oz/sf extra wing loading, so the tradeoff in strength vs wing loading works for me.

Most of our planes are significantly overpowered anyway (real FWs, P40s, Zeros, et al don't hang on their prop or have unlimited vertical...) so although weight is an important consideration we seem to have the means to overcome it, provided we're willing to deal with the required speed, which seems to be a common need among most of us as well.

Personally I think we should collectively build a small fleet of these Guillows conversions and then get together in some central location and have ourselves a combination fly-in and show 'n tell. Now THAT would be a road trip I'd be willing to make!

eroc

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

EROC, there is that SMALL get together that DICKEYBIRD and others go to, I think it is held in ARKANSAS? It is a huge deal with vendors and lots of flight demos of gas and electric planes.

There sure is some mental gymnastics involved with doing this conversion, I'm trying my best to maintain the attitude of,"it's best to err on the side of being too light".

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

ZE BUTCHER BIRD !

I found a good match between some carbon tubing and a 12" long drill bit, so that is how the front of the wing is doweled to the fuselage. The back end is anchored with a #4 wood screw to 1/8" plywood. The area where the screw head clamps the wing is saturated with thin CA and will get a layer of fiberglass, to spread the clamping force out.

Zack999

Hay nice build
SR 77 did you send him that though email if you did could you send me a copy at [email protected]
I want to start a fleet of my own I am allready started on a corsair! beleave it or not the kit I bought did not come with a former I am going to have to make my own # 11 dose not like me every time I look like I am trying to get rid of my finger prints when I get done with the project keep up the work!