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Plane for a PAW .061

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Plane for a PAW .061

Old 05-21-2006, 05:44 PM
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ebeneezer3
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Default Plane for a PAW .061

I've been breaking in a .061 PAW Diesel this weeked. Unfortunately I don,t have a plane to put it on. I'm thinking a DNU would work, but might be over powered. I'm using a 7/4 prop to break it in. These things are supposed to swing a 8/4. Another option would be a Mini Telemaster from Hobby Lobby.

Originally I had bought it to power a 70% Buzzard Bombshell. The mount does not fit between the cheek pieces ahead of the fire wall. I'm afraid of disfiguring a classic if I cut it to fit.


So what do the wise old heads (especially those with diesel experiance) say?
Old 05-21-2006, 06:21 PM
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combatpigg
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

I have only flown dieselized .061s. The best was an AME .061 that turned a APC 7x3 at 13,500. If the advancing of the throttle rips the firewall loose from the rest of the model, then it is overpowered, if the firewall remains attached, then you have a nice combination. I would put the PAW on a DNU, and change the rear end to a typical sport plane fin / rudder arrangement, and let'er rip!
Old 05-21-2006, 07:08 PM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

It's not possible to overpower a DNU. The only factor is overWEIGHTING it. The PAW would be a fine addition to the nose of a DNU with whatever prop you care to install.

... the question is.. are you man enough to FLY it with the PAW on it? .....

PS: What's an American doing playing with diesels? Displaced Brit or have you just been caught by the lure of the Smelly Side and decided to wear the black cloak to hide the oil stains?
Old 05-21-2006, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

I guess I'm just a sucker for the exotic. I decided to try one of the smelly ones and needed to get one before I hung it up and went on a fixed income.

This thing seems pretty strong but haven't seen much of an idle yet.

cp: sheer blinding speed is hard on the old guys. I need time to decide I need to turn and then enough time to turn before its a speck.

Ted

By the way, I'm a transplanted Yankee in NM. Originally from ME.
Old 05-21-2006, 10:00 PM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

EB, you won't get sheer blinding speed from a 7x3 turning 13 grand, all you will get is sheer blinding power that your left thumb can modulate. It sounds like a great combo, [PAW and DNU] I was this close, [><] to ordering a PAW last week. The only thing that held me back was my long term goal to get a Cyclon. XMAS is only 7 months away!
Old 05-22-2006, 12:49 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

That's assuming that you're a good boy and don't just get a lump of coal....
Old 05-22-2006, 01:02 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

Lump of coal? I already got a CS .061
Old 05-23-2006, 10:17 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

A PAW .061 will turn an 8/4 with lots of thrust and throttle down very nicely. Diesels are great for flying with lower RPMs and less tip noise from the prop. You could put it in a Peck Polymers R/C Prairie Bird and have a nice relaxing plane to fly or an Ace 1/2A Wizard if you want a bit of a hotrod. A Goldberg Jr. Falcon with less dihedral and ailerons would be a good choice as well [ .pdf available for free here: http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/ ].
Old 05-23-2006, 05:09 PM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

I think I've been talked into a DNU. That's next after I finish the Jr Falcon, plans from Dave's site. It's a good place to vist.

Thanks Ted
Old 05-24-2006, 05:53 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

Hmmm, with a PAW it isn't so much an idle, its more a reduction in RPM, an "idle" is about 4K to be reliable. On the bench you can set a diesel up to a slow idle(>3K) after warming up the engine, BUT when the motor has been idling a while (cooled down) and you wind on the juice, you may have a "grey smoke" pickup.
Best results are with the biggest prop as it has more flywheel action 8 X 4 is fine, a 6.5 X 5 will give you "crispy" acceleration. Straight fuel 33/33/33 would be OKt for the motor, although if you love your motor AND want to run at sustained high revs then 2% more castor is a good rule.
Don't forget "our" great fuel economy, so a smaller tank, or a half filled one, 1oz of fuel would run a looooong time


PAW website here http://www.eifflaender.com/index.htm

I dont know if its good to advertise stuff but I spotted this and I'm tempted Item number: 6059624387
Old 05-24-2006, 08:40 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

Andrew B, did you see the Babe Bee that same guy has for sale? 12 bids and over twenty bucks now! I've sold Golden Bee's for less!

Ted, when you get around to it, don't forget the pictures!
Old 05-24-2006, 09:12 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

It seems like a shame (to me..) not to put it into an old timer type of model []. What about building another 1/2A Texaco type model but building in bearers or a ply mounting plate to avoid the need for a mount? There are a few laser cut kits out there too if scratch building one isn't your idea of a good time, like from Spirit of Yesteryear or whoever. MJD
Old 05-24-2006, 09:02 PM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

My experience with the PAW 06 is that it is a pretty strong engine on a 7x4. Going to 8x4 takes the power down quite a bit, but it certainly is much less noisy that way and will do fine on a slow lightweight. The engine makes a wonderful putt putt on low throttle coming in for a touch and go or a slow fly by. I think a 70% Buzzard Bombshell comes out to around 50 inches, right? The .06 will do the job only if you keep the plane very light.

I like mine, as long as I keep up the ether in the fuel. When that starts to go you're in for some murderous prop flipping if you don't recognize the problem. The symptom is that you start using higher and higher compression to get a start. The solution is available at your local John Deere supplier--get their "80% Ether Premium Starting Fluid", turn upside down and blow off the propellant and then use the fluid to spike your fuel. Jim
Old 05-25-2006, 03:07 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

Hijacking the thread a bit further Has anyone had any experience with small gasoline engines? I see a few for sale on *bay, motors like Browns, Atwoods, Atoms etc . I can imagine in the past that spark ignition played merry hell with radio gear, but nowadays with our FM gear, electronic ignition packs and all the other goodies technology has brought us. Is gasoline an option for radio models or is it just a curiosity from the past ?

RE John Deere fluid, if thats unavailable, Bradex "Easy Start" is OK too

Another 061 appeared here Item number: 6060232476
Old 05-25-2006, 07:49 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

Back to a plane for a PAW .061, if you like WWII types and building from plans, Eric Clutton designed a few for his own use. Sells plans for them on his site, I believe.

If I remember correctly, they are two or three channel, without landing gear. I think they were used for a low-key form of scale combat. They were shown in Flying Models several times (Randy Randolph's column). Worth checking out.

George
Old 05-25-2006, 11:09 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

The only thing I didn't care for about Eric's plans are that you have these wonderful WWII fighters that are R/E. I'm sure that they'll fly just fine, but I sure would have rather seen them as A/E. If they can be converted, I'd probably pick up a couple myself!
Old 05-25-2006, 05:39 PM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

Buzzard, Yes the Bombshell has a 48 to 50 inch wing. The problem is, around the fire wall, the cheeks leave no room for the Dave Brown type mount or the Paw radial mount. I'd have to cut a great deal away. It was a Spirit of Yesteryear kit (Canadian Company).

Built out of the box and covered in money coat. It's extremely trail heavy. I may never get it to fly.

I ordered the engine from Eric Clutton, Dr Diesel, and a gallon of his "Olde English" fuel. I believe it's 28% castor oil. He says put teflon tape on the threads of the can and evaporation won't be a big problem. We'll see.

I've run 6 one oz tanks through it with complete cool down between each tank. The exhaust oil is still pretty black.

It's neat seeing that thing fire up with no battery on it. Hope to get it flyable soon.

Ted
Old 05-26-2006, 06:18 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

Ted,

You're gonna need a LOT of air time to burn a gallon in an .061.

One of the best break-in procedures and explanations for why it's done that way for a PAW is at:

http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/dieselcombat/index.htm

George
Old 05-26-2006, 08:19 AM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

George --

Thanks for the link -- it is some very interesting reading.
Old 05-26-2006, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

George,

You mentioned that link in an earlier thread so I had the break in instructions printed out. It is a good site with a lot of infromation. Its worth looking at.

Ted
Old 05-26-2006, 10:14 PM
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Default RE: Plane for a PAW .061

Back in the days when almost all engines were iron/steel there was much debate on whether you needed to break-in an engine or not. The FF guys would say no, and the CL guys would say yes (not a lot of RC in those days). Come to find out that the FF guys were essentially running the same as that break-in procedure...short runs followed by cool down.

Not sure that procedure is the best way for glow due to the difference between the cleaning action of alcohol and the lubricating action of kerosene, but it seems to work very well for all diesels I have used it on.

George

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