Hueydriver

Seeing that the building season is almost half way thru and I have yet to stick balsa together, I was wondering what you "seasoned" types have to say about your favorite aerobatic 1/2A rudder-only design/kit. I used to fly a lot of Ace pulse and now want to get back to the fun of those days (tired of seeing Extras, Ultras, 3D blah blah).

Something with a shorter tail moment and a steep, nose-low spiral dive at full rudder deflection, methinks. I had limited success with a Seperator, but it was a bit squirrely until the speed built up.

chevy43

Would you really build a rudder only play to actaully fly? Why?

dennis

My Feedback: (90)

You simply must be too young to know why. Some things have to be experienced you can never explain them.
Dennis

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for your querry Dennis, I'm anxious to see what the experienced RO guys respond with as I'm anxious to try a RO plane soon.
I trashed all my old equipment in 1991 that included an ACE RO rig that I had never had any success with - but I have to admit that I didn't try very hard. Now after flying the wings off of the Aero Aces I realize that there is lot more fun waiting out there for me with a true RO model.

So, Bobhh and all you other great RO pilots, fess up and share your favorites!

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

There is pleasure in simplicity. It's also a trip down memory lane for many people. It's a fun challenge to get a RO model to do what you want it to, and I can't help but think it is great for the flying skills. I've built and flown two RO models with Black Widows, sometime in the mid '70's, and I remember having a ball with them.

MJD

Rick W

My Feedback: (20)

Oh ya! I'm old enough to remember. Lighting Bug, single channel escapement, one for left two for right. or was it the other way around, can't remember!!!!

Sounds like a OUTSTANDING project go for it...


Rick

Hueydriver

After some search, I see that Dave Fritzke has a Jr Falcon on his website....I was thinking something of a cabin design for better spiral stability. Guess it would be easy to design. Something with about 3 degrees of incidence, draggy wing and short nose moment. From what I remember, it has to produce a bunch of lift as airspeed increases to get over the top to loop (following the spiral dive). Any scaled down plans of the Smog Hog on the web?

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Well, flying rudder only does take extreme skill and many of the advanced 3D pilots just can't cope with the dedication! Back in the old days this was the only way to fly. You had to trim your model for flight (Sorry no trim tabs on the tranny!) and you had to anticipate the models reaction.

I have several single channel models flying now I would say I enjoy the challenge that’s why I fly the older stuff too. I too am bored with the Extras, Caps and such. I like going to the field with something no one else has! Amazingly I get quite a few questions on "how does it go up? it ain't got no elevator!" from the so called experts and such. Just fun for me!!

OK Raymond, next Carolina 1/2A get together you are on the docket for some flight time with one of my single channel units. Beware though… once you are hooked its hard to give up!!!

Did someone say Lighting Bug with 1 blip right (to counter torque) 2 blips left??


Bob Harris

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

I built one of those too, but I didn't fly it RO, I flew it free flight with a (blech) Testor's .049. The Testor's engine provided both the power of an .020 and some noseweight in one convenient package. Had quite a few good flights out of that, once I got the looping under control. Okay, maybe a hair more power than an .020, but not much.

Um, despite what the Early RC website says, isn't it "Lightning Bug"... ? I know what those are, but I thought lighting bugs are what happens when you hire a handyman instead of a qualified electrician.

As to RO model choices: if going small I'd go for a Lightning Bug with an .020 or small diesel, or bigger how about a Live Wire Champ or an Esquire? Early RC kits them all.

MJD

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Well, MJD, I think when that guy from Early RC was typing up the Lighting Bug labels he forgot the "n". He's not the best speller in the world!!! As for single channel models the Jr falcon is great as well as the Esquires, Tri-Squires and Champs. For small models the School Boy, Page Boy would also work. I hope to have a Champ soon with 3 channel galloping ghost if I can get the range up!!

Bob Harris

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Well, I figured it was just a boo-boo.. he can spell it any old way he likes if the aircraft is the real McCoy. Long as he doesn't make up decals spelled the same way that is..

I almost jumped out of my chair when I first saw the Page Boy, one of those is on my to do list for spring. Dunno the vintage of that design, but I am pretty sure that was the model my older brother used to fly FF when I was about up to his waist in the mid '60's. He's gone now so I can't confirm, but when I saw it I had a heavy duty flashback. I recall some crazy looping flights untl he got it somewhat trimmed out. With the built in incidence and no radio gear I can believe it. Got a few .010's sitting around that need to earn their keep. I figure two HS-50's, GWS Rx, and a 220mAh NiMH should round out the package. Or 3 channel with a throttle sleeve.

Thinking about that is an excellent way to distract me from work fro the rest of the afternoon... tsk tsk.

MJD

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Yep, the Page Boy was an early Ken Willard design. It was featured in MAN I think in an article in 1962. I have the magazine somewhere in my stash. Billed as the worlds smallest RC model!

Here is my original orange model from 1990 . Single channel Ace pulser and is still going strong after about a gazillion flights! The purple one was the prototype from the first run of kits. Well flown with 2 dragonfly 6G servos, GMS receiver and 110mA pack. The little .010 will fly it anywhere! I have flown it in 25+mph wind!!!

Bob Harris

Yuu

Why not a "Breezy" or a "Mini-Mambo" ??

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Both the Breezy and Minnie Mambo would be great also! A great chioce for an .049!! I have several flights on my Minnie Mambo with single channel pulser and an OK Cub .049!!

Bob Harris

fritzke

My Feedback: (1)

Just build this one ".049 sized":
http://my.pclink.com/~dfritzke/smog-hog.pdf
I vote for the Whizard or Dicks Dream myself.
(& you can still buy Whizard kits)
Funny, the Smog Hog specifies the NACA 2415 airfoil,
which is very very close to the one used on the
Ace molded foam wings.
Dave
PS If you can't figure out my favorite all time
RO plane from my avitar, well then....

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

There were two styles of rudder only. The early climb with engine, glide with it off, spiral down to gain excess speed then doing loops and rolls etc., until the speed burned off. Designs from the 50's and the small stuff from later years were configured this way. Positive incidence on the wing, and down thrust on the engine.

But in the early 60's the competition models started using throttle with the rudder in what was called "Class I". In these later designs, they moved to much bigger airplanes, with .45 to .60 sized engines and the airplane configuration was changed too. These were designed with a more neutral engine thrust or even positive incidence and were configured to lose altitude much faster. Then to climb, they added power, and some could gain enough speed with just the engine to loop. This also allowed them to flair for landing with extra power. I think the Seperator is one of the later. I've been thinking of building a Penetrator which won the Nats in 1965 and is powered by a 60 sized engine for a Vintage (VR/CS) meet. A few years ago, I got a chance to fly a Stark Shark which is Class II design (rudder/elevator), also powered by a 60. It was a blast doing rolls, loops, etc. Really about the only thing it would not do was knife edge.

Hueydriver

High Plains....yer right about the Seperator. Lotsa' up thrust with about 3 degrees of incidence, heavy and very shortly coupled. I had a real hand full trimming mine until an untimely meeting with mother earth. With an 049, I'd like to spread out the tail moment and give it some FF stability.

Dave, the RudderBird may be perfect for scaling down. I think with any small RO aircraft, I'd probably go for a slab horizontal stab simply for building simplicity. It seems that there was a real difference in preferences regarding a swept rudder line or a perfectly vertical one. I remember way back that my R/C flight instructor remarked about the swept rudder on the Taurus as a method of keeping the nose up in turns?!

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

BobHH,

I WILL take you up on that offer for some RO instruction, trimming advice, and moral support!

In fact I have one of your Early R/C PageBoy kits and I have one of Tim's pretty Pee Wee engines and a spare TD.010 just gathering dust. I would rather go for the TD but Your comment in the instructions leads me to think it might be too much power for a beginner like me. I have no problem turning the prop around for the first hundred or so flights. If I get it built in time (Looks like it might take hours an' hours to build) would you help me trim it out at Rog's next do?

mylamo

My Feedback: (1)

I have an Early RC School Boy that is just about
the best small airplane I've ever seen. Although
mine has elevator it would be a fine rudder plane.
I fly this one with a PAW .55 with throttle but from
the first flight it flew with no trim needed.

BMatthews

THis is a great reminder that I was supposed to tidy up the plans for my own Mini-Reb and post them up. It's an orginal design that was meant as a tribute and a nod of appreciation to Hal Debolt who passed away last year.

Bipeflyer and Combatpig have seen it fly and CP's comment after seeing it land and Bipe telling him that it was rudder only was unprintable... So I guess it passes the aerobatic requirement...

Most of what makes a rudder only aerobatic or not is based on the trimming and rudder throw used and having enough power to accelerate to a significantly higher flying speed. This assumes there's enough dihedral.

A Jr Falcon or a Mini Mambo or any number of other RO models can be tuned to be a kitten or a tiger. So don't sweat the design selection too much and rather go for what plucks at your heart strings.

And if you want to have a go at the Mini Reb I'd be happy to polish them up to show the angle changes to wing and stab that are needed and also the proper CG location.

BMatthews

About a year ago I suggested that a rudder only group build might be a lot of fun and it never gained any steam behind it. I'm seeing a lot more intrest and waxing poetic in this thread.

So.... how many of you are interested in a rudder only 1/2A build "contest"?


Don't worry about trimming and flying. Between a few of us like BobHH, myself and a couple of others that have tried it. (dfritzke?) I'm sure we can get you through the ciritcal first few flights.

Hueydriver

I'm definitely up for a R/O cook-up. As you said above, the key is probably a less draggy wing for acceleration from the spiral dive. The Seperator had a very thick (18%) Clark Y and significant up thrust, so it was meant to fly off the engine....probably why I couldn't get the 1/2A version trimmed. For the Jr Falcon, would a slab horiz stab make a big difference compared to the symmetrical airfoiled one?

Also interested in plans for the mini-Reb....would a Golden Bee suffice?

groundsman

(So.... how many of you are interested in a rudder only 1/2A build "contest"? )

I would be interested.

I started out with 3 channel .15 size and was having a hard time learning to fly. My friend and instructor said to try RO. I purchased a Pulse Commander, Top Flight School Boy and a TD .020. I was flying on my own after one flight. What a great airplane. I want to build another one

Beeza

My Feedback: (1)

In the early 70s I built a Jr Falcon with a BaBee and an Ace single channel pulse unit. The first time I took it out and somehow looped it without meaning to. My wife thought I was pretty hot stuff, but I had to tell her the truth.

Later I built the all balsa Schoolboy with a TD .010 and got so I could catch it on its return glide.
It was a great flying plane for sure. Those were some of my best early r/c memories. Later I built an Ace Littliest Stick, the whole kit came in a bag. It was too hot for me! Fun times!

Beeza

BMatthews

Hueydriver, a golden bee would be excellent. I've got a black widow in mine but it's set up with a baby bee single flute cylinder just like the golden bee has. A basic 6x3 and a blend of somewhere around 20 to 25% nitro fuel and a basic MA 6x3.

My own RO Littlest Stick had an Ace Commander in it until recently and it got dusted off about once a year. Sadly the Commander or the TX gave up the ghost (get it? Gave up the "ghost"? LOL, I kill me sometimes.... ) and BobHH has it all now. However my LS is probably going to make a reappearance this summer controlled by a single 4 gram servo and a parkflyer reciever and the mighty Cox 010 will SING AGAIN! ! ! !