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Tired of JUNK

Old 05-23-2008, 02:01 PM
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digital_trucker
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Default Tired of JUNK

I've now tried FOUR different brand new glow engines in the .05-.061 range. All four have been been more-or-less junk.

AP .061: The so-called 'muffler' barely attaches well enough to make the pressure tap functional, and the needle valve needs a piece of fuel tubing to seal properly. STATUS: BARELY ADEQUATE, but ultimately unacceptable.

CS .061: Mine won't even run, period. The needle fit is so loose even fuel tubing won't make it work. STATUS: UTTER JUNK

MP Jet .061: Runs fine on top end, muffler works well...but NO pressure tap. Engine flat-out refuses to idle for longer than a few seconds. STATUS: FINE FOR C/L, JUNK FOR R/C

Toki .05: Muffler beautiful, includes pressure tap. Spits gobs of raw fuel out around NVA, fuel tubing no solution, won't spin up because NVA is more-or-less ineffective. STATUS: PRETTY, BUT JUNK


I'm fed up, I've had enough, I'm going to get a PAW .049 and enjoy a well-made engine that works properly. On the off-chance that the angels intercede, God smiles upon us, and we decide that maybe a $50 engine won't REALLY do for R/C flight AND a manufacturer actually produces a halfway decently engineered glow R/C engine in the .049-.061 range MAYBE, just MAYBE I'll consider coming back to glow power.



P.S. I so hope that the 'tards over at Cox that did so much to bring us to this point are infested with camel crabs.

Old 05-23-2008, 02:06 PM
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Rick W
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK



OUTSTANDING!!!!!

Rick
Old 05-23-2008, 04:56 PM
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combatpigg
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

If I added up all the money I've wasted on so-called cheap engines I could have bought a few VAs and been set up for life for the same money.
Steak is a better buy than hamburger, ask any cardiologist.
Old 05-23-2008, 06:03 PM
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peterburford
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

Well there you go, I'm not alone in being disgusted now and then.
Peter
Old 05-23-2008, 06:17 PM
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microsprint9
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

I guess that makes my TT.07 look very good, although it's not that powerful and a little heavy it runs like a dream and idles great with very good throttle response. 17000rpm on a 6x3 is all i get but it is adequate for the planes i've had it on.
Old 05-23-2008, 06:30 PM
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

I have noticed over the last few weeks that NIB r/c Norvel .049's and .061's have leveled off at around $55 to $65 or so on the 'bay.

David
Old 05-23-2008, 07:07 PM
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digital_trucker
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

Norvel .049 and .061? See the AP section above, except they run much better.
Old 05-23-2008, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

What I mean is that for much less than a MECOA, we can still buy Norvels.

David
Old 05-23-2008, 07:34 PM
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ProBroJoe
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

Speaking of junk... I'm about ready to throw all my tanked Coxes in the 'Bay - I'm also tired of fiddling with junk bits and pieces in an attempt to get a "runner". I've never had a tanked reedie that would run consistently, and I've certainly run out of time and patience. (When the frustration exceeds the "tinkerin' fun" it's time to let go.) I'll let somebody else be all melancholy about Cox and I'll get paid nicely to boot...

Now my Norvels on the other hand have served me well - especially when you scrap the said muffler.
Old 05-23-2008, 08:12 PM
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flyinrog
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

Sorry to hear all the bad news...for the ap I bought one and we put it on Bsarges shrike and it runs fine?..I have the toki .05 and the cs .061 and havent run either so it doesnt sound great with your reviews......I'm about with you on the cox's too, I couldnt get my golden bee to do more than run out the prime, brought it home and used one of my last rebuild kits on it...still wont run, I have enougn parts to make another but am also running out of patience with them....may have to get a table at this years swap meet....Rog
Old 05-23-2008, 08:20 PM
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vicman
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

although it's not that powerful and a little heavy it runs like a dream and idles great with very good throttle response.
Still a 100% turd[&o] I didn't even like the performance on the run-in bench.
Old 05-23-2008, 09:00 PM
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rainedave
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

Funny, but my tanked Reedies are my best running Coxes. The only thing special I do is install Nystrom's tubing inside. Go figure.

I have an AME that will sometimes run a WOT, but dies every time I throttle down. That's one I've given up on.

David
Old 05-23-2008, 09:13 PM
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combatpigg
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

Hmmm.....I've always figured the TDs were less trouble. For me, it has always been the O-ring in the reedies I've had trouble with.
My only complaint with the TD is castor oil everywhere.
If you go through Larry Driskills' article on how to prep a TD, [there have been other excellent TD articles, also] you will come away with an excellent running engine.
Old 05-24-2008, 01:28 AM
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digital_trucker
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

One I get the taste out of my mouth, I may just take a look at the MP Jet and see if I can make the airbleed adjustable. That should allow it to idle. It does pretty well on the top end. Did MP Jet offer a twin needle carb on some of their engines? One wonders why they weren't standard. I chalk it up to yet another example of tarditude on the part of engine manufacturers.
Old 05-24-2008, 05:42 AM
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propbuster
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

All of the above is probably why I've gotten away from 1/2a almost completely. When I was a kid it was great fun to tinker for hrs with a little Cox engine just to get it to run for a whole two minute flight. Now that I'm older, I just don't have the time or patience for it anymore. P.S., I still have a few Cox product engines and a couple of TD's and tank mounts laying around if anyone is interested in them.
Old 05-24-2008, 06:48 AM
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

All of this reminds me of when I was a kid in the '50's, knocking myself out trying to make 1/2A engines fly C/L models and performance was marginal at best.

When I switched to .09 engines in my models flying suddenly became a very enjoyable experience.

.09 engines are not that much larger than an .049 and far easier to start and tune. Most had standard glo plugs that were available anywhere.

The old argument of a Cox .049 having as much power as a Cub .09 was often made but try comparing a Cox TD .049 to a Cox TD .09 and it's a diffent story. Now you're comparing apples with apples.

Old 05-24-2008, 07:01 AM
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digital_trucker
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I refuse to buy the argument that a 1/2A engine is by nature temperamental. Properly engineered they should be just fine. My old Black Widow was consistently powerful and reliable, much more so than many bigger engines I've seen over the years. In these modern times there's simply no excuse not to have a well running, reliable 1/2A R/C engine. I don't buy the argument that the reason behind it is all because of electrics, either. How many OS inline 4's and Technopower radials have you seen at your local flying field? Granted, those are high-dollar specialty items, but my point is that a !/2A line will sell many many more units than those exotic machines.

In my opinion, part of the reason why companies are reluctant to get into a 1/2A line is because of the bad rep they have, which (also in my opinion) is richly deserved due to overall slipshod manufacturing and indifferent design. I predict that any company that makes a truly modern R/C 1/2A glow engine that's well designed and made with good quality control will have no problem moving their units out the door...even if they DO have to break the so-called '$50 ceiling'. I hold up PAW as my main argument.
Old 05-24-2008, 08:20 AM
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

Grampa always said, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear." And Grampa also said," Buy cheap, get cheap!" So here's MY review of what 'trucker' wrote above:
AP .061 "Muffler barely attaches well enough to make the pressure tap effective". I remember someone wrote in these threads that he wrapped an extra wire around the muffler and cylinder, and put JBWELD on the remaining joint, and let it dry for a couple days, and the engine ran good. If you think the engine is 'junk' then you won't mind putting JBWELD on it... or, you won't mind hammering it flat either!! ME? I'd try the JB... I could always sell it later to a newbee.......
CS .061 "The needle fit is so loose even fuel tubing won't make it work." Well, if you know what the problem is, fix the needle!! Texas Timers sells needles, and so do others. Put in a needle from something else and make it work.
MP Jet .061 "Runs fine on top end, muffler works well... but no pressure tap. Engine flat-out refuses to idle for longer than a few seconds." So? A pressure tap is just a short 1/4" piece of 1/8" brass tube soldered or JBWELD onto the muffler, with a small hole in the muffler body. I used a 1/16" drill for the hole. Next, Dickeybird wrote a thread about putting an exhaust restrictor throttle on the TD, but he had to reduce the inside diameter of the intake in order to get a good idle and transition. Could you do the same? Roughen a spot and with a tooth pick, put a 'goober' of JBWeld on the sidewall of the intake hole and let it dry for a week. That will decrease the diameter of the hole. Or, do as Dickeybird did for the TD and drill out the hole to fit the next size of brass tube, then solder in a piece of brass tube with a ID hole smaller than the original. Again, reduced diameter. Dickeybird's idea was that the reduced diameter of the intake will cause the engine to 'draw' fuel better at idle speed, and only slightly reduce top end speed. Gramma always said, "You can't have your cake and eat it too!"
Toki .05 "Spits gobs of raw fuel out around NVA, fuel tubing no solution, won't spin up because NVA is more-or-less ineffective". So you've already discovered the NVA is the problem. That's MORE than half the solution!! Take the engine to a GOOD hobby store and find a small NVA that will fit, drill a bigger hole for it, and install. Or check the guys at the flying field and see which engine has a needle about the right size to swap into your engine.
Final solution? "Buy cheap, get cheap""? Any body out there still drive a Ford? Any body still drive a YUGO ? Anybody drive a Studebaker Avanti? My neighbor has a Model T and a '32 Chevy, and loves to tell me about all the problems he 'overcame' just to keep 'em running.
Yes, I've bought junk too, but I think I can get over it. It's just money, and when I take "the big sleep", I won't need money.....
Old 05-24-2008, 08:24 AM
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

Yuu,
Were do you fly in Shawano?
Old 05-24-2008, 09:04 AM
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digital_trucker
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

Yuu - my whole point in starting this thread is that there is nothing available new in 1/2A R/C glow that ISN'T junk. If there were a quality 1/2A glow engine sold today that was worth a darn, I'd buy it (I don't have any silly notions about $50 being my limit). Buying an engine brand new and having to fix it to get it to operate properly is indefensible...there is simply no excuse.

As far as the AP goes, I've got mine running pretty darn good (19K on a 6x3 and it idles well), that doesn't negate the fact that the engine as-is out of the box is barely adequate. It's been modified.

Concerning the MP Jet, I installed a pressure tap no problem, and I'm going to look at modding the carb to make the airbleed adjustable. Hopefully that will allow it to idle.

Concerning the CS, it's just a total turd. From the crankshaft fit right on out. About the only thing in it worth salvaging for use somewhere else is the piston and liner (and I have my doubts about that too).

On to the Toki, I'm going to give it a good going over and make sure there's nothing I've overlooked. But as others have reported it's performance is anemic at best.


There is no excuse for having to fix a brand new engine. Modding one to alter or enhance it's performance is one thing. Not meeting minimum standards out of the box is quite another. Comparing them to automobiles doesn't fit, for the simple reason that with cars there are alternatives. When it comes to 1/2A we're stuck with basically nose weights of various sizes.
Old 05-24-2008, 10:27 AM
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK


ORIGINAL: digital_trucker

One I get the taste out of my mouth, I may just take a look at the MP Jet and see if I can make the airbleed adjustable. That should allow it to idle. It does pretty well on the top end. Did MP Jet offer a twin needle carb on some of their engines? One wonders why they weren't standard. I chalk it up to yet another example of tarditude on the part of engine manufacturers.

DT, Yes, the bb RC version does have a dual needle carb, which is a very nice unit. It also has a collet prop drive. Unfortunately the carb & the bb version of the engine are nearly impossible to find, even on the auction site. I had been searching for one or both for over a year, when I finally lucked out. A friend of mine was getting out of the slimers, & gave me his .061 bb RC version. I consider it to be a real treasure. Only negative I can come up with, on this engine, is that it is heavy compared to the Norvel ........ George K.

Attached pic shows the second needle.
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Old 05-24-2008, 10:37 AM
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Thomas B
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

How bad are the Fugi .05 motors that Mecoa sells? They look exactly like the Toki.... I was looking around their web site the other day and noticed it...a search for Fugi in this forum did not turn up much.....

I still have a decent supply of TD 049s and parts put back for a rainy 1/2 A day.
Old 05-24-2008, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

I was almost ready to write off the APs this morning... My .061 was VERY hard to start, even after I swapped plugs and made sure the needle valve wasn't plugged. I cranked, and cranked and cranked and finally got 'er going for a couple of flights. I just couldn't figure out why it was so hard to start, it was never like this - I'd typically just bump it with the starter... I was beginning to think that the thing was just plain wore out after about a gallon of fuel. Heck, I almost had myself believing that for $40 I already gotten my use out of it... Then, before the third flight, while cranking the engine over with the starter, I noticed the propblast blowing onto my starting hand. Yep... I had inadvertently hooked the starter leads up backwards! D-Oh! The first two starts must have been pure luck with it starting when it bumped itself off compression when I removed the starter.... I can be a little brain dead sometimes - especially before 8 AM...

Anyway... long story short, I like the AP, it does OK, and it still turns an APC 5.7x3 to 18,5K right outta the box...
Old 05-24-2008, 11:32 AM
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

The AP, does run pretty good modified also. I found it cant take all the mod's that can be done to the norvels, but you can make the Ap .061 run pretty durn good with out too much effort. I Drill or File an airbleed path into the carb positioned at Idle, they do ok then. I found a good use for that wire that holds the muffy on.... I use them to make the small orientation pins for the sleeve in my VA's, perfect material for that. Im starting to like the AP's. BUT, I can see why they are not consider to be a "good" engine.
I believe it is because of Quality Conrol. I havent seen any of them that have good part fits out of the box. I hate the crankshaft in them. I prefer a removable prop stud/screw, that is just a personal preference though. For the price, I cant complain too loud I suppose.
Old 05-24-2008, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: Tired of JUNK

Here's my take on the topic.

1. Old Cox engines made in USA- run great (when taken care of properly) and provide long time enjoyment

2. New engines, Ah-so, make velly well in China, yu by cheap-yu like velly good. No run? No ploblem, they cheap, yu buy more.

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