tewitt1949

Hi all. Well it finally happened. We lost our field due to noise. We are searching and have a couple possable places but there are always houses near by. To prevent this from happening again, I've heard there are guidlines or acceptable noise limits for planes. We have looked around but can't find any diffenate numbers. We did buy a new decipable meter but not sure how or where to hold the meter from the plane. Does anyone know or what those max reading are or links where to find them. Any info is appricated.
Thanks Terry

combatpigg

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Terry, guidelines and Db meters don't mean a thing to a noise complainer. I would find who the complainers were and get a copy of that book called, "Don't get mad, get even"....

I knew a kid in grade school who made stink bombs. He used powdered sulpher, aluminum filings and Drano powder, probably mixed in thirds. He filled gelatin capsules up about 1/2 way with the dry mixture and all that he needed to do to activate the mixture was open the capsule, spit in it and then get away from it fast!

mylamo

My Feedback: (1)

I have heard of folks that can't stand to see anyone enjoy themselves.
I think that most if not all noise complaints involve that type person or
maybe giant gassers. I will admit to sometimes being annoyed by a 150cc
powered low pass. Most glow engines noise doesn't travel as well in my
opinion, however I may harbor a bias.

vpresley

My Feedback: (162)

Pigg I hope your kidding ?


That is not the kind thing that should advocated. It has been my experience that most people are caught when engaged in activities like that. It would reflect very poorly on the persons involved and modelers as a whole. Not good in any way shape or form.


Vince

combatpigg

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Of course I'm kidding. The penitentiaries around here are crammed full of guys who got caught trying to pull off "get even" pranks.

sportrider_fz6

sorry to hear, I know what is like to lose a flying spot. had the same thing happen at a school we used to use. one guy complained. the irony is the school was there before the houses. this guy bought a house next to the school field and complained about the noise??? go figure.

Remby

My Feedback: (3)

Noise? Right. Are there roads nearby? We have large trucks roll by all hours of the day, could not ever hear a 1/2a over it's muffler growl. Also, chain saws running, and guys out with semi-auto guns target shooting for hours.
But, that plane is too loud, right.
If you want your fields, you have to fight for them. Take readings on all noise, and I mean all noise, and see if you are the real loud ones. If not, you may have a good shot at a case to protect your rights.

soarrich

My Feedback: (98)

Write a letter to the AMA they saved our field. The bad guys lawyer said his client was wealthy and was willing to spend the money to get rid of us, the AMA lawyer told'em there's 200,000 of us, how much money does he want to spend? The complainer then died in a accident, this is New Jersey 'nuff said.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Our club went to court and won. We produced sample sound readings and dug up local noise ordinances. The area in question is zoned agricultural, so the noise complaint got laughed out of court. One of my 1/2A planes was exhibit "A".....but we were never asked to fire it up in the court room [8D]

eroc144

My Feedback: (1)

Tewitt - I'm sorry for your loss, and let's hope it isn't permanent. AMA noise guidelines for competition events are 96db @ 3 meters for concrete / macadam runways, 94db otherwise. They also sell a book about getting and keeping your site that mentions noise control. I haven't read it so I can't comment. Our club just got a second field and during this process we reopened discussions on noise and certification. In order to fly at the new field, non-electrics must be tested, results logged, and a certification sticker issued. It's a pain and not all the members are on board, but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - once the noise complaints start it's an uphill battle.

I flew 1/2a nitro at a local school for a few years without incident. Local neighbors would stop by to watch, their kids would come up to see the planes and ask questions - it was a pretty cool scene. Then one day a very angry man showed up saying that I had to stop, I was ruining his quiet evenings, etc. No matter that the weed whackers and other devices were closer and louder - the planes were his real problem... A few nights later the police showed up at the field. After listening and watching for 10 mins the officer came over and told me I was within my rights to use the field, that the planes were not in violation of any noise ordinance and to enjoy myself. A few nights later the "looney" came out again - all p*ss and vinegar - but after I mentioned that the police were on my side he decided to negotiate and we worked out a sensible time of day agreement. He stopped by a few more times to continue to plead his case and make special requests, but after a while he stopped stopping by. But not all noise stories have good endings...

EG

RocketRob

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Wow you guys have it pretty good....
San Francisco ordinance prevents any "gas" powered model aircraft within city limits. So I fly my Ritewing Lightning Electric wing at the local park (Dog hill) This is the same electric I fly at the semi-local RC clubs when someone in the club complains about my glow or diesels noise. It is a 3s3p 3000mah - (9 amp hour) 78 amp draw screaming Loud 148mph (dive)wing - the only thing I have found even more annoying than someone else's 1/2a engine. Although if I ever get around to running the .061 Profi, I may have a new contender.....

To fly the glows, I drive 45-60minutes each way.

DeviousDave

My dad and I have had the police called on us for using a school field after years of doing so without issue. Some woman called them to complain that we were ruining her morning so they sent a car out. Dad was just starting the glide down from low earth orbit with his Cox Easy Bee when the cruiser pulled up, so that immediately set the officer's bias for us and when he landed my dad offered to start his OS .15 powered All Star Bipe and after hearing that the officer went back to talk to the lady. Haven't had a problem since.

I currently fly with a group of guys on the other side of Detroit, and am the only one who flies glow. Unfortunately even an unmuffled .010 can be pretty piercing on a calm morning so I imagine it's just a matter of time before we get another visit. They have come before to check us out on electric only days, but never "on business".

crossman

I found out many years ago that noise ordiances are often vague and arbitrary in their application. I had the police at my home because my dog barked in the afternoon, but the guy around the corner that was cutting up pallets with a chainsaw in the evening was never visited, (and one of the complainers was a township cop!). I'm still there but the guy that didn't like my dog has since moved away.

Now back to the main issue:

Terry,

If the worst happens, Check with the State DNR about available space on any state parks or rec areas near you. I have noticed that a lot of clubs in Michigan are flying on State Parks (Including the club I belong to). Additionally, that often puts you far enough from civilization that there are fewer people to complain. The only issue to club members is that everyone will need a State Park sticker on their vehicle, but if they use the parks for camping, they'll have it anyway.

hogflyer

Yeah, some people seem to complain just to hear them selves complain. One lady called the police saying my plane was making too much noise and disturbing her when flying at a local park back in the late 70's. When the police showed up and saw I was flying a 2M glider off a high start, he went back to tell her one more call like that and he was going to site her for a false police report. Then he heard an unbelievable racket from the apartment upstairs - turns out a guy was building motor cycle engines and firing them up in his apartment, but that didn't seem to bother her as much as my glider did - darned gliders are just so noisy.....[>:]

Hogflyer

Bipe Flyer

Ahh, CP - I see that you subscribe to the "Live and Let Die" school of thought. lol

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

In over fifty years of modelling (airplanes that is, not the other kind but thank you for asking) I've been in several clubs where we lost our field. Never once did the subject of safety even come up - always its about noise.

Which brings me to my puzzlement; why do we love loud engines? I like the sound of a four-stoke too - even a screaming TD (from a distance) but why oh why do we like 'em LOUD?

Bipe Flyer

A club near here had the same problem and they went to court and eventually had their field declared an official model aerodrome. It took 4 years and the complainants moved away, but going forward noise complaints will fall on deaf ears, so to speak.

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Electrics

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

All it takes is for one person to persue a public nuisance complaint and you're going to lose. The fact that someone is bothered makes the case. I've been named in two lawsuits (I won both) but it's a lot cheaper and easier to get a large number of people together, lease or buy open land, obtain written rights of property use from a city or county, and just start again at another location.

That's where most of the clubs have failed. The try to get land on the cheap and later lose it to encroaching development instead of establishing ownership rights. When you own it, what someone wants to do next door later down the road, you'll have a voice in preventing.

jeffie8696

The local club it next to the dump so nobody seems to care much about the noise. Stink however????

DeviousDave

Never give an inch, when a 2x4 will do.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Every club should have at least 1 lawyer to keep things from going wrong and at least 1 guy from New Jersey just in case things have ALREADY gone wrong ..[sm=pirate.gif]

superflea

electrics won't solve the problem. I know I know.

I flew at a club in San Diego where there were complaints from one of the neighbors. problem was the neighbors were an easy mile away living up on a hill, the field was in the bottom of a valley, all flying done away from houses. That is they (the houses) were to our backs, there was an eight lane freeway off to the left. All airplanes were strictly kept to below 96 dp at ten ft because of the complaints.

Now think about it the airplanes are flying more than a mile away from the neighbors with a freeway running adjacent to both the houses and the field, all planes quiet and yet still people complained, I doubt they even heard them at all. But they could see them from their hill top perch.

Also I seen it mentioned in this thread that the AMA noise....
Look AMA regs don't mean squat here. All that matters is the local civil noise ordinances. If you are violating the local laws then it really doesn't matter what the AMA says does it. So the question is are you violating local noise ord. if not, then appeal the decision to the city, cite that you are not in violation of any ordinances or laws and further more are flying within the guide lines of the AMA. Any body can complain about anything but if you're not in violation then there is nothing that can be done.
If you fight that is. the meek always get run down.

muddy69

My Feedback: (2)

Next thing you know our small 2 strokes will be polluting the environment with carbon.

digital_trucker

Some electrics should be tested for noise as well. Some of the Zagys that fly around here put my Wasp to shame in the noise department...there's been several times I've run out of fuel and couldn't tell except by the flight performance.