combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It's "stubborn" red. I bought a bunch of Towerkote a couple years ago on sale and it isn't as true of a red as monokote dark red. This "red" covering looks more like what Chevy used to call "Hugger [Hugga?] Orange" So I'll stubbornly use it till it's gone. In just the right light the camera can get fooled into making the paint match.
So the paint gets to dry over night and the biggest chore left is getting the crank to spin freely.

skaliwag

My Feedback: (1)

CP....What kame first ... The Klass or the Kote?

ProBroJoe

Yeaaaaaaah buddy, that's cool as hell dude!

Waiting with bated breath...

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It flys real good! Sorry if I can't get any more specific than that, but it was too cold to do much more than a few flights to get the engine used to hauling a plane and getting the plane trimmed.

The RTF weight is 16.6 ozs with a pair of HS65s, spektrum PFer RX and 300 mah battery.
To get the glow plug lit, I alligator clipped to the post and ran a short pigtail out the hot air exit. The NVA bracket that sticks out is "ground" side of the circuit.

The launches were at the richest setting that the engine could tolerate and the unloading in the sky was well short of full screamage, but I got a taste of some speed. I'll need to bring a propane heater out there [for my fingers] to get in enough flights with various props and also set up the camera to record audio for doppler analysis to see "what is what" out there.

The plane needed quite a bit of aileron trim to fly straight. Must have ironed in a twist to the wing, or the lateral balance is off enough to matter...it was trying to roll to the engine side. The pitch control was near perfect, it takes full up to flatten out the glide enough to flare for landing. Moving the CG back a hair will give it a little more elevator...it's nice to be able to extend the flare more right before touch down.

So far, so good.

ProBroJoe

Congats on a successful maiden! Is that a 6x4 you're running there or did you throw on a 7" to keep the speed down for the first few flights?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

That's your basic 6x4 MAS. It really accelerated the model out of my hand. The prop thinks it's hooked up to a really healthy TD .049 on a 1 pound plane, so I haven't broke the news to the prop yet that it's hooked up to the wrong engine......[]

I've been hanging onto a real scary looking 5x5 prop...I think it would need to turn pretty fast to do any good here, but it's worth trying, just need to find that face shield...[sm=pirate.gif]

I balanced the model laterally with a 2 inch long nail pushed in through a pilot hole in the wing tip. I'll bet that does the trick.

Hopefully today is nice enough to get some sound recordings of some hot runs.....[8D]

ProBroJoe

I was going to ask about a 5x5 since the plane was so light. Shouldn't it turn about the same as the 6x4? Wouldn't you simply loose a little bit of thrust in exchange for more speed? Or is there something special about this 5x5?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I think I tried it with a Norvel .074 and the engine didn't respond well enough. It's such a flimsy looking little thing, it looks like an electric prop. I don't have a very good selection of props to try yet...but I do have a supply of 6x4s because I cut them down to 4.2 inches for running the Cyclon.061. I've got some shaved down Q-15 wood props, but those should be saved for making molds someday. I think Eliminator has a very good selection of props, if APC ends up as a dead end.
The 5x5 must have a niche, because APC won't carry props that don't have a home for very long.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It was snowing today, a little wind, poor visibility, 33 degrees, perfect day for some speed runs!

Time to see what happens when you run an engine past it's horsepower peak [as established by COMPETENT engineers]

I set the ground rpm by ear...it sounded close to 24,000 and let it go. The engine unloaded explosively / massively after the first dive and the first pass sounded the best of all. It was getting a push from what felt like a 5 mph wind, there was just enough wind to make the snow flakes drift a little. I made the passes about 250 feet long before turning to get as many shots at the recorder as possible.
The doppler graph you see here is just the first flight with the MAS 6x4. I flew 5 flights today with the same prop. Most of the landings, the prop blades stopped at 12:00 and 6:00, but they survived every landing.
The inflight rpm is taken from the difference and the average of 2 waves coming and going. I came up with close to 27,000 rpm. It looks like the plane did an honest 100 mph even with having me running it the "wrong way".... This size prop is just a rough guess as to what the true potential is......it's just the first try!

ProBroJoe

You da man dude! I'd love to hear the audio from those passes.... Time for a 5 x 5?

You make me feel bad for letting a little thing like the flu and rain stop me from flying today. []

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Joe, that's the plan...get the 5x5 on there!. This plane launches too easily with the 6x4, so you know it's a little bit too "thrusty" for all out speed. You don't really start to see "overdrive" until you shift up to a squared up prop with equal diameter and pitch. If the plane slows down with the 5x5, then the magic prop lies somewhere in between. Incremental sizes might be hard to get or too expensive. You could spend a lot of money searching for 5 or 10 mph. As it stands, this is an easy combo that is fun to watch. The bladder empties out a little too quick, gotta try the next size up.
The plane with those wing tip fins rolls like a boat. The nose doesn't wobble, but it doesn't roll as cleanly as a big single fin in the middle. The 32" Screamin' Demon with tip fins does the same, I like it better with the 2 fins in the middle.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Just ran the 5x5 prop and the engine seemed to like it. The needle was nice and broad. Not enough light to tach it, but there was enough thrust to lift the plane vertical. Here's a picture of the prop before I break it tomorrow. Looks like a speed prop........just not sure if it looks like a glow prop?

ProBroJoe

Yea, you said something along those lines earlier in the thread so I got to thinking that you needed to trade a bit of thrust for speed... but of course here I a'm trying to teach grandma to suck eggs.

It's interesting how you took an off the shelf "sport" engine and with a few minutes worth of work, have it turning almost 2x it's normal operating range. How do you 'spose the bottom end is holding up? That's an unbushed rod, right? Wonder how many runs are left?

Man, I'd like to see it fly... we gotta get you a helmet cam!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

This is what makes having the doppler fun, plus it's free. It's still a time consuming PIA as I learn the quirks and tricks to streamline the process of capturing the correct time interval of the pass. The MPEG has to get converted to a sound [WAV] file, then editted down to just a single pass, then sent to Wavoscope to analyze the graph. Sometimes the audio converter slips on the transfer...but you get what you pay for I guess. I didn't put the HowFast? in this plane because I'm just tired of swapping it, patching the donor plane, fixing broken sampling tubes, etc. Deltas tend to plow the grass into the tubes with more force than a wing with a straight LE.

Yes, it is interesting to see an engine that you can pick up on an auction site..or let's say a whole class of engines that you can pick up for less money than the piece of junk .061s that is being sold nowadays and have some "out of the ordinary" fun with it. I'll bet the other .10s out there have similar potential. Now would be a good time to do some window shopping at APC and Eliminator to see what is available.

What is special about this engine is the power you get in a .10 size case. The jury is still out on longevity, but nothing ventured, nothing gained... no guts, no glory...run 'em if you got 'em....

So far the engine has betwwen a 1/2 hour and a full hour of run time above 22,000 and still feels good..no little clicks or clunks yet.

lfinney

My Feedback: (44)

the concern about the rod is interesting, most of the 6000 or 7000 series materials, can be heat treated by throwing them in your oven or your toaster over at 400 degrees for eight hours, this restores the metal to a T5-6 temper, cheap improvement to durability, if the the asp rod has looks like it was punched out of flat stock, thats not all bad either, a certain engine manufacturer used a extrusion profile to simplify the manufacturing process, but the grain was oriented across the rod....mucho rod failures, der!
polishing out all machine marks and rough edges can make a huge difference in longevity. FWIW

skaliwag

My Feedback: (1)

CP... The APC 5 X 5 is a Speed 400 prop. Some of those really wind up, no vibes though. Are'nt you worried where you have "Rubbed" the blades with the starter

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I'm not over joyed to see wear & tear there.......I'm just wondering how I ended up with a E prop? They should dye them pink so there's no mistake......

ProBroJoe

Speaking of starting, how's the starting habits? Is there a certain ritual you must go through with a bladder? I can see the engine flooding rather quickly if you don't get it lit off right away.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Ideally you want a fine thread needle with a locking collet nut that you turn with pliers or a wrench to make snug. This needle isn't that type, it is a OS .10 needle with a hunk of silicone tubing to restrict the needle movement. Initially, set the needle for as fast a drip rate as you can before it breaks into a stream. This will be too rich, but you pinch the line as you "needle it in". With small engines, never get "sold" on a setting too soon. One of the golden rules is to never inflate the bladder against the walls of the fuel cell, or the setting will go too lean and smoke an engine when the pressure drops suddenly [as the bladder is no longer being squeezed].
Side mounted engines are hardest to flood.
Make sure the glow panel is registering a glow, dry crank the engine and relax your grip on the fuel line. It should start.
This engine starts easily this way. These small diameter props don't give much leverage for flip starting, but this engine is fit so well, it would fire right up. I'm just not very patient when the camera is rolling, freezing weather, impatient dog sitting in the car, etc. Those back fires sting, too!

If I flood it, then I remove the plug and crank the flood out. The bladder is a pain, but slightly easier for me to set up than a crankcase tap, plus there is a weight savings without a hard tank.

ProBroJoe

Well that makes sense, but it seems like you'd need about six hands to pull it off! [X(]

Nah, just kiddin'. I could see where the benefits could quickly outweigh the cons... especially where space is at a premium...

Thanks for the rundown, I may have to try it one day - I have a TD .049 here with the fine thread needle - sounds like a perfect candidate. Wasn't ptulmer making nifty little adapters to connect the fuel line to the latex tubing? Or is something like that not needed at all?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

You can rig your own bladders without a special fitting, if you have the right combination of stuff. Start out with a 3/4" long hunk of 3/32" brass tubing, round the ends. Push small diameter silicone fuel tubing over the brass tube completely. Now tie off a hunk of 1/8" latex tubing, make it 2" long after the knot is tied and slip that completely over the silicone tube/brass fitting and tie off with a small tie wrap or whatever you got.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Hey there LF, your post slipped past me there. I'm not sure I've ever seen a rod that looks like this one. It's a dull grey color and looks like it was cast, but it is not porous...it looks dense. It looks like it's been compressed, compacted, maybe what you could call forged. If that doesn't sound feasible, then maybe it was punched out of sheet? So heat treat and room temp cool?

longdan

It could be pressure die cast - casting in a die with the molten metal exposed to several thousand psi while it cools. Makes for very strong parts (compared to non-pressure cast parts), no porosity but grain flow isn't ideal.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

LD....That makes sense now and hopefully that is what they did. If it was just a raw casting it wouldn't seem to have a chance of lasting very long.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Not 5 dollars but Enya makes a drop in replacement for the Norvel .15, their S1505. Not exactly drop in though, the piston end is wider by a fair measure but not a problem to trim it. I've been installing these on to dieselized Norvel .15s and they work well. No doubt Enya quality is up there.

There's also the OS 21805000 which IS a true drop in but it's nearly twice the money. Shipping out of Enya Japan is pretty reasonable so I went that route.

In both cases, the length is exactly right as is the bores in each end.

Maybe there's a drop in rod for Joe too, what does he need?