Norvel AME .049 (.8cc) engine question(s)...
 

A friend of mine has an old Norvel AME .049/.8cc engine that I'm buying cheap. It's used, has a Cox prop on it I think, and someone at some point put a glow plug adapter on it. I know these little guys get murdered on power with standard plugs, so I'd like to find the proper glow plug insert and proper clamp (and probably a spanner wrench to go with it) for this little Norvel. It is a used engine, so I got it in my hand last summer to look it over; it has compression - though it's been sitting awhile. I think it will probably run okay - it's covered in castor stains. Probably good enough to fly a converted electric park flyer or something small like that. Probably use a 5x3 prop and 25/30% nitro / 25% castor fuel? My biggest concern is finding a glow plug and clamp for it so it runs the best. Thoughts?

The Cox plug will work well. Your choice of high compression or low. I would get the TD head if you go Cox, or you will get the same performance as the conversion one. The Merlin plug is a two piece and works well, as does the Norvel two piece plug. The Norvel and Merlin clamps do not interchange. I am sure the conversion one is alright to just play around with until the others come in the mail. The Merlin one may be the cheapest if you get three.

Doug Galbreath sells the Nelson Plug head adapters for about $14 [shipping included].
The Nelson plugs will give you real good power at a good price.

Thanks fellas. Whats the best place to get the Cox stuff and/or stuff from Doug? When I get the engine in hand, I'll post a few pictures of it. I understand there's two different AME .049s, with one coming standard with a standard plug and the other an insert/clamp. Is a bladder tank required for these guys or will they run with muffler pressure? I don't recall if it has a muffler or not - may need one of those too.

There is a "sticky" here with lots of useful Norvel info; http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/1-2-...ngine-faq.html

I started going through that thread - just haven't gotten through all of it yet. Thanks.

I had no trouble with the rc ones, but some control line/FF ones had quite a large intake. A bladder would be pretty much needed. One had a backplate pressure fitting, and I still had trouble getting it to run. I made up an insert at 1/8" and they are fine on suction. The bores were quite big on them, so I am not sure they were stock, as they were used.

With all things "proper", what kind of rpm should I expect to see running a 5x3 and 25/25 fuel?

If APC 5x3 26.5k+ unloaded with a speedy clean plane.

I'm looking at ground peak rpm. Something to go off of when I test run the engine to see what kind of shape it's in.

The .049 (with stock RC carb and muffler) will do around 20000-21000rpm on the APC 5x3 on 10% nitro. The .061 will make about 2000rpm more on the same prop. CL versions should spin a little faster.

AME .061 RC with Profi tuned pipe

Prop shape size ref:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2143921


https://www.apcprop.com/v/PERFILES_W...tDatafiles.asp

APC:
4.2x4 / 25.5k rpm / .143 hp static
4.2x4 / 28.3k rpm / unloaded

4.5x4 / 24.2k static
5.7x3 / 19.2k static
5x3 / 23.8k static

Cox 5x4 / 21k static

I don't think the one I'm getting has a muffler, so I might have to chase one down since my club I'll be joining requires mufflers. Thanks for the rpm figures, I have something to go on now. Thank you fellas.

If the engine can comfortably maintain 24,000 with a 5x3, then you have an engine that is worthy of a road trip down to the flying field.
The AME is the wrong engine to "ground test" for peak rpm until it had had plenty of run time.
Doug Galbreath has a web page with his contact info.

Fair enough. I suspect this engine has a fair amount of runtime based on the castor staining on the outside. I'd like to test run the engine to determine if it's in good condition and wanted to have a "good 'nuff" rpm to figure that out. I'm not sure what I will do with it just yet, but for the price, it's fine sitting around for awhile until I figure it out. As soon as I get it in my hands again, I'll post photos of it and do a bit more reading in the Norvel FAQ sticky. Thanks for the info, everybody.

It took a good 40 mins of fuel time before one of my new old stock started feeling acceptable / smooth crank shaft fit.

Here is a close up of the Galbreath Head and larger Nelson plug on the AME .061

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2144227

kinda off the topic here but i was just wondering what the difference is between an AP Hornet and a Norvel? They look pretty similar

The AP .061s that I've had are built looser than the Norvel and they wear out quicker. The power is about the same as a early Big Mig. For $30 back in the day, the AP .061 was my favorite 1/2A RC combat engine.

I just have one used one. It does not seem to go well, or hold a setting. They were a direct copy of the Norvel pretty much. I think the casting looks a bit nicer really, just maybe material choices, or fits are a bit off. Could be just mine was worn out. Had a T Tiger .07 that was pretty bad too, but two others were ok, so maybe just the perils of swap meet crap. I think the Norvels are better if you have a choice. I always pick them up at swap meets if they are priced anywhere near reasonable.

My AP too is much more sloppy in the crank to case fit, felt worn out from day one. It doesn't have any low end compensation, and it runs weaker than a Norvel .049, other than that it is okey I guess. On the positive note they did drill a hole in the mounting lug for the Norvel spring starter, always something...

I flew many flights with mine and a profi tuned pipe it makes good power but the NV
is a bit fussy more trouble finding a good peak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiLQfuQ4y64

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiLQfuQ4y64

Spins a APC 4.5x4 IC prop at 24.8k rpm unloaded 94mph

Knowing what I know now a E style prop will get
more speed due to the thinner airfoil and lighter prop.
4.5x4.1E will bust 25.4k +

I know there are diesel conversion heads available for Cox .049s which I think fit the Norvels as well... Does the AME .049 make a reasonable diesel conversion candidate?

It depends on your starting and tuning habits with diesel fuel. Don't let anyone tell you that running them this way is more forgiving..!
You have to run diesel engines very close to hydraulic lock ...more than with glow fuel.
This isn't conducive to a long and happy life with lightweight internal engine parts.
The fuel residue will creep under iron on covering and age a model prematurely, your clothes will stink, women will shun you.
I HAVE seen AME .061s on diesel turn 7 x 3 APC props 13,500 on a twin engine model. The guy who owned this set-up was a huge diesel conversion fan and he had lots of experience with them. He always backed off the compression screw, way off before using his electric starter. He was too old and stiff for hand flipping. With a twin engine model, hand flipping means a lot of time wasted when you could be flying.
Any way, he would crank the engine with the compression set too low to fire. As soon as he saw fuel reach the spray bar he clamped off the line. He would resume turning the engine over as he raised the compression enough to get it to "bump". Then he released the clamp on the fuel line and usually all conditions were just right for a safe start. To be sure the engine isn't over compressed the exhaust residue should ideally be brown but not black. Under compression causes the engine to misfire similar to being too rich. Over compression will cause the engine to heat up too much and lose power. Many times this condition will "creep up" during the run, especially if you are working the model really hard with constant maneuvering [like in a combat match].
I keep a couple of the 1/2 A RJL brand diesel heads handy and mix small batches of 1/3 lamp oil, 1/3 John Deere starter fluid and 1/3 castor oil for occasional runs.
Ideally, the Diesel Gurus say to use glow engines that are already broke in on glow fuel and are in tip top condition before switching to diesel. Well, ideally I wouldn't mess with any conversions and I'd just buy one of the PAW engines..!
1/2 A glow engines just aren't built heavy enough to give care free service on diesel over the long haul.
If you tear apart a purpose built diesel like the PAW, you will see the difference in design strength.

I'm new to diesels, but have ran many bigger conversion engines - smallest being a .20 Sportster K&B and biggest being an ST .51. I have the tuning down pretty good and have had good results with mixing my own fuel. I was just curious if one of the little guys like the AME would diesel well. In reality, it was just an idea. I know the AME engines are ported more for rpm, so I had my doubts it would diesel as well.

Thanks for the information and story. I find engines in general fascinating and enjoy collecting them as well.

Norvel diesels have been tried. Andrew has done a lot of them. I think they are the Big Migs though. www.youtube.com/watch?v=57WTJUxV0DM