Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

Hi Guys--
I built the Indicator WAY BACK WHEN---from Model Aviation plan #810. There wasn't a kit at the time. The fuselage and tailfeathers built up fine, but the plan called for a foam wing to buy from Sig, "Sig One Piece Foam Wing---SIG RP-FC-500". There were no instructions or plans for a built-up wing. I used a Cox Black Widow .049 as called for.

I ran strapping tape around the wing, lengthwise, top and bottom (one piece) and used a lightweight iron-on covering. The wing alone weighs a bit over 8 oz. The plane didn't fly well, and acted heavy. The RCU discussions on the Indicator I read sounds like there's a built-up wing in the kit that's sold today.

Do you suppose I was wrong in going with the foam wing? (The foam wing on my Grasshopper weighs only 4oz with the stip of tape and iron-on covering.)

If wing weight is the probem, can somebody send me plans or at least dimensions for a built-up wing? I hate to waste a 'good' plane that can be made to fly right. Any ides out there??

Thanks in advance,
Beeza (BSA)

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

Beeza,
Go here :- http://www.ulmer-rc.com/ and get the DNU plan, it has a built up version of the Ace foam wing.
Stewart

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

It doesn't take much of a pile of strapping tape to add up to a lot of weight and you will still have a wing that is too flexible. It is easy enough to draw a pair of lines 1/8" apart, or use masking tape to create guide lines. Then all you need is a razor saw and some patience to cut a trench 1/8"x3/4" right down broadway on the top of a foam wing. You could also come up with a chisel-like digging tool to help remove the waste material. Now coat a piece of spruce with some wood glue and work it into the groove. This should be enough to make a foam wing strong enough to handle 1/2A power. You don't need to even carry the spar out past 3/4 span on each wing panel, plus if you want to get fancy and save a little more weight, the spar could also lose depth as it travels outboard, so your notches in the wing would look more like ramps. A well built wing this size shouldn't weigh much more than 3 or 4 ozs fully rigged and covered.

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

Thanks for the responses, guys. My feeling is that the weight of the foam is the the biggest problem. Keep in mind this is the exact wing recommended on the plan.
I could remove the covering and add the spruce spar. I'd also thought of maybe cutting maybe 4 rectangular holes out of the span of the wing, 2 on each wing half, spread out, maybe 4x6 inches and recovering over them.

This wing is a lot harder foam than the Ace Grasshopper and is 1 1/8" thick at the center and 1" thick at the tips. Is this kinda oversized? It is difficult to squezze bewteen fingers to leave a small dent. Very compact foam.

I'm not an Ace Grasshopper nut, but it's the only basis for comparison I have right now.
The total GHop weight including engine and 2 tiny servos is 15 oz without batt and rx.
The total IND weight including engine, no servos batt or rx is 18 oz.

Beeza

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

The new ACE wings are light enough for what you want to do. If you contact cement 1/16" balsa skins to them and use either a short spar or glass the center section, it will be stiff enough to handle typical 1/2A power and weight.

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

Beeza. I think I know the wing you speak of.

What is the chord at the root?
Is it 45" total span?

I believe this particular wing was larger than the Ace wing panels.
If it is the one I am thinking of it is an injection molded wing with the dihedral and taper molded in place.

If it is the wing I am thinking of it is, they did suffer from being quite dense and heavy.

Robert

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

Hello Robert,

The foam wing has a span of 45", main chord is 7 3/8", tip chord is 5.5". You're right, it's very dense foam. That makes a wing area of about 290 sq in.

On the Lanier site, their built-up wing in today's kit is wingspan of 45 1/4 with a wing area of 316 sq in.

I can see the trouble now--the wing has less area and too much weight. It can certainly take a beating!! Any ideas as to what I use this wing for (on an r/c plane)?

Thanks,
Beeza

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

Beeza, I've used the tape method on Ace wings and it works pretty well. The only problem I had with that arrangement is that after the first hundred flights, it started getting a curve in the wing. (like dihedral) At 18oz, you'd only need to have around 220-250sq in to fly sport-like. Which brings me to a question. Have you checked the balance? If it flies heavy, you could be nose-heavy. More unlikely, but still possible, is that you don't have enough throw on the controls?

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

Hello Ptulmer,

It's good to know that about the strapping tape. I suppose a little dihedral goes a long way if I make it as far as a hundred flights. The CG is spot on and if anything, I usually have a little more control surface throw than needed.
I've never been able to fly fast planes, the lazy flyers are more my style, and I've always liked sailplane configurations anyway, to me a little more wing area is a good thing. Maybe I'm wrong there? Being here in central Illinois, most guys fly bigger planes due to the wind conditions. I get out on the calmer days.

I did check the Ace Hobby site (the old Ace R/C company?) but I'm not seeing any of the Ace wings like they used to sell separately. Am I looking in the worng place?

Beeza

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

Beeza, Quantum Models sells the ACE foam wing but they dont show them on their website, I think they are $7?..you'd have to call and ask...Rog

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

http://store.yahoo.com/ehobbies-com/ttras6073.html

http://store.yahoo.com/ehobbies-com/ttras6074.html

Beeza, with the info you gave, it sounds like you may just be getting into a higher wing loading than you are used to. The other thing is that the CG given on plans is usually very conservative. Double-check it using the calc at this link. http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/cg_super_calc.htm

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

Ptulmer,
Thanks for the links to the Ace wings, and Flyinrog--you're correct--they are $7 a panel. Thanks!
I ordered 3 constant chort panels.

Pt--I did use the CG calculator on the ACProving Grounds link---I should have read ALL of the Charles Grant book in the high school library so long ago! By the time I got done, the figures seemed to indicate I could move the CG forward as much as 1/2 ". I will experiment with that.

I also saw on the Lanier site that wing kits are available. I'd imagine being built-up and lightly covered it would still be lighter than my foam wing. This wing kit is 316 sq in area, while my heavy foam wing is about 290 sq in.

This would affect wing loading more than before? Am I missing something here?

Beeza

RE: Lanier Indicator advice--Please!
 

Lanier isn't famous for the quality of the wood in their kits, but it would still be lighter than the foam and have more area. Also, look at lightening your radio equipment. Change out the Nicd for a Nimh, change out heavy servos, etc... With 316sq in it should float by the time you're through.