Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

For those of you that missed out in getting a Little Extra, This may be a 2nd chance for ya. Over the past month or so, I've watched an item on the auction site called the "10-15 Extra Sportster". Sure looked like a Herr Little Extra to me. These no-factory-name units sold from $30 to $61 ea, plus shiping. Finally, curiosity won out, & I got one for $37 (plus shiping). The thing arrived today. Took out one of my extra (pun intended) Herr units & compared. Looks pretty much like a Herr Little Extra copy. See the pics. Some obvious differences are; A larger tank (looks to be 3 OZs), wing comes in two pieces (with robust joiner), wing attachement to fuse is different. landing gear stance is about 3/4" narrower than the Herr, Main gear wheels are smaller (too much smaller), no instruction book is supplied (supposed to be a site where you can download a copy, but couldn't get it to work). and, finally, the aileron servos are not tucked away neatly, like on the Herr. On this plane these servos are mounted into the center sheeting of the wing, with tops exposed. The combined weight of the wing, fuse, tail feathers, & canopy was/is 13 & 3/8 OZs as compared to 12 & 1/8 OZs for the Herr. OH yeah, the covering appeared to be much better. Push rods did not look good, but it's almost SOP to replace the ARF stuff with real piano wire. Construction looks good, but I didn't take time to take a long hard look. Like any ARF everything should be "gone over", & over again. Going outta state for a few weeks, so won't be able to slap this thing together for awhile. Maybe someone else will have one in the air by the time I get back. .......George K

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

George,
Thanks for the report!
Does the airfoil appear similar?
Thankfully they lost the teal and purple[:'(]

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

Placing wing tip to wing tip, the airfoil appears to be identical. Also the dihedral looks to be the same. Yeah, the yellow is "much more gooder" as far as visibility is concerned. ...................... George K.

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

They probably are knock offs..the chinese have no copyright issues...I have a friend that had a pattern plane done over there and about the time his got back to the states..he was seeing them on the bay for like1/3 of his price and he had to buy 30,000 units to get them done......actually good to know though, its a sweet flying plane..I had to put 2 inch racing wheels on mine to take off from our rough field...Rog

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

Yea, that is good to know that one can get a Lil Extra clone. I see no reason to believe that it shouldn't fly just like the real McCoy. (Heck, they probably come from the exact same factory.) Funny how they're being marketed as a .10-.15 size airplane, cause they truly are, unlike Herr's unrealistic view that an .074 is just the ticket. :eek:

So George, when can we expect a flight report? ;)

-Joe

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

So George, when can we expect a flight report? ;)

-Joe
[/quote]


TODAY !!!!!!!!!!! Some dental problems delayed my trip, so I dug into the Counterfit Little Extra. The build was pretty straight forward, except for the "belly-pan/wing retainer" thingy. I have absolutely no idea of how that thing is supposed to be installed. The rear is self-explanatory; the front is a mystery. The instruction sheet has a pic showing how to install it. A guy's hand is completely covering the front, & he is shown connecting the rear. As I was looking it over, trying to see how it could be installed, the thing fell apart ... in my hands. !!! Appeared that maybe , at least one drop of some kind of adheisive (rubber cement?) was used to assemble the whole thing. Put it back together with epoxy & some birch ply reenforcement. Finally, sandwich a piece of birch ply between the landing gear, & fuse. Left enough overhang to hold the thingy in place. Also, put a drop of Ambroid on all the joints in the fuse that I could reach. ..... The motor mount was into the tank stopper space, & since one lifetime ain't long enough to jack with bending small tubing & stopers, I tossed in a 4 OZ Hays slim-line tank. Since I've got got a couple of other Lil Extras powered with a .15 XLS, & a .11CX, decided to go a little more sedate with this one. Installed an Enya .09 Used an old SEMCO muffler (with dual exhaust outlets). This is one of the few mufflers out there which can quiet down one one of these baffle pistoned noise-makers, & not kill the output. Total dry weight is 27 & 3/4 OZs. ................ This morning's flight; Last week, I broke my last pre-GF3 MAS 7x4 prop (anybody have any of those OLD, OBSOLETE, UNIMPROVED, OUT-DATED, pre GF3 MAS props in 7x4, 7x5, or 8x4 I would like to purchase any that are offered.) So, I tried a APC 7x4. Take off was longer than with the higher performance engines, as expected, but in the air performance was very brisk. Much better verticle than expected. Others at the field were wowed by the way that ancient little Enya, complete with a baffled cast iron piston, could move that plane around. The plane felt just like the Herr unit. I couldn't tell the difference. All in all, a pretty nice unit. Takes a little longer to assemble, & the overall quality is down a tad from the Herr unit, but flies just as good. .................. First flight was almost the last. Last night, while trying to get all the servos & push-rods installed, I didn't pay much attention to how long I had the little 110 mah receiver battery turned on . After the first flight, as I walked back to the start-up bench, I heard the servos do a dance & then stop where-ever they happened to be. The receiver battery was dead. Dodged the bullet on that one. ........................ George K.

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

George, great report! I, too, hate the covering that Sig uses. That's why I recovered my Lil Extra. However, not even a great design can overcome that boat anchor that I used for an engine-K&B .18. Even the mousse muffler that you were kind enough to send couldn'get it to pull a greasy string from a cat's butt!
Frank

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

What prop were you using on the KB 18?

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

Frank, good to hear from you. Yeah, I really don't know what the answer is for the K&B .18. In another month or so, Me, my lathe, & some other tools will be back together, so I'll start experimenting again. It's kinda strange; on the bench, the K&B is only 'bout 7 or 8 hundred RPM's behind the Magnum .15 XLS with the same 8x4 prop. The difference is in the air. Some unloading with the K&B, but the Magnum starts unloading with some forward motion down the runway. Give it a few seconds in the air, & it goes into a howl.!!! If it's any consolation, the K&B actually gives high performance compared to a Norvel .15 Big Mig. What do you think about 13,500 (or less) for a .15 spinning an 8x4 prop.??? Got a HOB spacewalker that is supposed to fly nice with a .10 engine. That should make it just about right for the Norvel.!!! Will let you know if I come up with anything for the K&B. . ........... George K.

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

Skaliwag, I used a MA 8/4.
George, I know that you have the ability to modify the .18. Too bad that it takes that in order to make it a good engine.

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

To bad seller of the Xtra clone dont ship outside the US, guess intl pilots will just sit wish and watch !!! [:@]

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

Cool,

I got my little Extra about a week before they disapeared at Towers and paid $39.00 for it thanks to a "Super Saver" coupon from Towers where they took $20.00 off the order if you spent $60.00 or more.


I have 1 question: Is the Enya 09 heavy enough to put the rudder / elevator servos (HS 55's) in the back right next to the empennage and balance properly?


Glad to see the Enya works as this is an effort to finally see my 1981 Enya .09 III TV power something decent. It was originally installed in a 1/2A Sterling Piper Tri-Pacer that flew like and anvil (A grand total of 1 flight). After that marginal flight I got an Enya SS40BB to power a Midwest Aerostar trainer, the Piper went to the mothballs, the rest is history.

Fast Forward 28 years, I finally got the now ruined Tri-Pacer out of the Attic, de-gummed the Enya, polished it, and fitted it with the new spiffy carb that has the needle angled to the back. (I Corresponded over email with Mr Ken Enya himself and bought the new parts straight from him. The advice, service, and shipping time were impeccable)

The plane is almost ready to go. I am looking forward to trying it out.

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

The old Enya 09 is pretty light by todays standards for a .10 class engine.
I have an older OS 10 on mine and all the gear (5 HS 81's 250 mah nicad) is in the radio compartment
and it balanced fine. HS 55's are so light that it would take very little weight
in the nose to balance it, if it's necessary at all. I find the .10 to be plenty for the
Lil Extra, but many here like to put a .15 on it for that more modern "3D"
performance level. The Enya 09 should be a good match for it in my opinion.
Dave

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

One of those planes on the bay right now!...Rog,, mine has an OS.15LA no power house for sure, but runs like a Timex

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

I just flew mine yesterday.

Very Aerobatic with decent vertical and Excellent Aileron / Elevator Authority. With the Enya 09 and a 8X3 MAS "Combat" prop the take-off run was about 15 ft on a very rough grass / dirt patch.

I didn't care for the bind in the stock linkage so I did mount the Elevator / Rudder servos on the fuse under the Stab and it balanced fine with the CG about 1/8" back from stock just like I wanted to get a snappier elevator response.

You can see more details on this post: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8700666/anchors_9065768/mpage_3/key_/anchor/tm.htm]Just Bought my Little Extra Thread[/link]

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

George, how's the Lil' Extra clone holding up? Got a guy a work here that wants one (after seeing my Herr fly). He's a bit concerned about it being a cheap knock off.... Anyone else flying one of these eB*y specials?

-Joe

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

Joe, 'bout a week or two ago, was ready for a flight, & grabed the fuselage & starter. Just put a little pressure (downward), & the landing gear broke out. That, & the wing retainer/belly pan failure,, which I reported earlier have been the only problems. If I would have taken a closer look (earlier) I would have gusseted & fiberglassed that whole area. Had a Enya .11 on it for awhile. This plane is a "hoot" with anything from a .09 Enya to a strong .15. Can't imagine a .21 or .25, (as some guys appear to be using). Would be way above my minimal capabilities. ......................... George K.

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

where are you guys finding these???

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

Go to the ebay site, search for "extra sportster". It's available in 2 sizes. the .10/.15, & I think the other is .40/.50 size. .... George K.

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

They seem to have a whole bunch of "Copies"

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

George, thanks for the reply. If my friend gets one, I'll make sure I go over it with him and address those little details. I fly my Lil' Extra with a Mag XL .15 and it's a hoot (unlimited vertical). I can't even imagine what a .25 would be like!

-Joe

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

I have an old HB .25 New in the box, it weighs less than My Conquest .15, I am so tempted to put in it one of these :)

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

I double-dog dare ya! [X(]

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

Is there any such thing as a "triple dog dare ya". ??? ............... George K.


Got a little curious & had to drag out my NIB spare Lil' Extra. Wanted to see how much room it had for more engine. Actually much more room than the K&B needs. Weight balance is gonna be a bit of an issue though. I know, the engine should be inverted, & the rear exhaust directed between the landing gear, but I'm not ready to butcher the new model .... (yet). Asking myself a few questions, & coming up with the all wrong answers. The plane is so "right" with an old .09 Enya, or a .11CX, or .15 XLS or ???. why fool with it????............. Do you really need more power than what the XLS is providing??? ............. Do you really think that an ancient old man (me) can keep this overpowered thing in the air??? ..............Do you really need 4 of the same model planes operational.??? ................... Have you lost your sanity.??? ......................... George K.

Oh yeah, that old very well worn K&B, pictured, spins an 8x4 or a 7x6 right near 20K.

RE: Counterfit Little Extra; UPDATE
 

installing a .25 in a 1/2a plane?????!?!?!?! whats next... cats and dogs living together?!?!?!?!? it will be anarchy!!!!:D