ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

hello how's it going
i recently picked up a old and i mean old ace r/c all star bipe kit at a plane show it was opened and some parts were gone, but all in all the main stuff was there.
the question i have is that the destructions are pretty much vague
it seem's like a rather simple kit
but i was wondering is if anyone out there has built this kit
and is the anything special that i should be watching out for
are should do
im planing on putting a norvel 25 on it with some hi tec hs-81mg
micros for the ailerons and elevators and some 55's for the rudder and gas i know the 25 may be a bit much but it only weighs 1.5 oz more than a os15 and left stick control
2 oz tank and a micri rec,and micro batt's
im also putting bottom wing ailerons add on
im putting the kit together with no probs yet just trying to get some input on some one who has built these kits before
thx :)

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

Built one from the RC modeler magazine plans back about 1985.

Power was an OS 15, with an ancient Orbit radio, running 3 channels.

Entire assembly went well with no snags or particularily difficult areas of construction.

THe radio/fuel tank compartment was very cramped given the equipment of the day.

Flying performance was very nice. Rudder rolls looked pretty good. Landings and take offs from grass were okay too, although some people report constant nose overs with those.

The only mod was in the wings. I could not locate a set of the tapered wings while I was building. So I used the constatn chord version. That added only a couple of extra square inches, with no apparent adverse characteristics - wing area/loading, drag.

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

A friend built one several years ago, OS .15 powered, and it was quite "snappy" with the tapered wings. He tended to build heavy, so that may have been part of it.
Also, his had a pretty flimsy wire cabane that seemed to flex a lot. Some other system might be better.

As for using a .25, I believe you'd be deserting model aviation for model rocketry!

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

I had one way back when. It was a little heavy with standard s148 servos. It still took of in under 20 feet with a O.S. FP 15 in the nose. I would try to build it as light as possible and use HS-81mg's and go with a .15. With a .25 the prop clearance may be a problem. It was never a floater but with a little power on it would slow down for landings.

Dru.

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

I had a All Star and flew it with a Cox Med .09. It was plenty of power... I also built one with a .19 in it and it was a rocket. I sold that one and the guy finally retired it when the wings took on a permanent U shape. The top forward fuse block needs to be really hollowed out to allow for a big enough fuel tank etc so you might want to consider that about a 2 or maybe 4 ounce tank is all you will be able to fit.. my two ounce tank did not last long with the .19 but I got 7-8 minute flights with the .09. Mine was 2 channel, rudder and elevator. I don`t see any reason to use metal gear servos, the loads on the control surfaces are not that big. As I mentioned before, the foam wings will take on a U shape after awhile. I used the strapping tape spanwise to reinforce. You could go even farther.. Carbon Fiber Tape?

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

I have had 2 with old OS MAX baffle .15's and it was a good flyer. I would think a modern .25 will just about hover it. My good pal had one with a Medallion .15 and ailerons and he flew that thing to death. I was lucky enough to stumble across a kit myself last year. (The Mini Ultimate is still on the market, very similar plane)
Easy to build though, and cores are available from Quantum.
Tough to find a small bipe otherwise! (remember the Hobby Shack Pitts S2a in the .10 size.....?)
Daze

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

fritzke I have one hanging in the garage with a O.S. .15 in the nose. It fly very nice. I was told it was a handful on the ground, but I have not had a problem. I don't do a lot of taxing with though.

Where can I find the Mini Ultimate at????

Dru.

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

It's the Simple Ultimate I guess!
Quantum Models, $45. Good candidate for the Norvel .15.
I never had much trouble with my AllStar on the ground, always hand launched it!
Dave

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

hey thanks guys
all the info is great !
ya i kinda figured the 25 would be a bit over kill but
but for the price its only 7 dollars more than a os 15 and has almost twice the power! with only a 1.5 oz more
but thats what the left stick is for huh???
does any one have any old pic's so i can see what it looks like with some covering ???

did any one else try to configure a way to mount the wings other than the supplied method, of the ol wrap the rubber bands around???

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

flat-spin-lover,

what kind of parts are you missing? I picked up one of those kits about 12 years ago at a club swapmeet. Shortly after, I dropped out of the hobby for a number of years, so it moldered in my basement. The mice ate my plans up, but left most of the wood and the foam wing cores alone, so I've been cannibalizing the box for other projects. The only thing I really want is the wing cores. I have stuff like the LG wires and mounting block and other misc. components. If you let me know what you need, I'll take a look in the box and see if I can help.

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

I'd be curious to hear other experiences with the Norvel .25, but the only guy in our club who has one thought the throttle was terrible and replaced it with another brand in order to get a decent idle and transition.

Nice thing about the OS .15 fp is it is such a user-friendly engine. I had one sitting on a plane for two years, took it to a meet and it fired and ran perfectly on one flip. I do one choked prime, flip a couple of times without the the glow driver, then hook up and flip--brrrrrpt!! If you do TWO choked flips it will flood, and then you have to flip it more to clear. Idle is very low, transition instantaneous. I hear the newer la is just as good. All my fps (.15, .25, and .40) are incredibly reliable. I never use an electric starter and I never mess with the idle screw. Jim

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

yeah I never touch my idle screw, either.

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

hey buzz bomber
nothing really missing that i couldnt find at the LHS
but i havnt flown it yet so u never know (lol)
but thank you very much
as fars as the 25 it will be a first for me also but there
are a few at my field and they all seem to run with out a hitch
but ill keep ya posted im ganna try to cover it today
im going to go with a pearl white
main with green designs with grey trim around the green
still wanting to see some pics if any one has any

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

My All Star was from a kit, my buddy's from the RCM magazine construction article. I used the then new "Mini" servos from Heathkit (similar in size to S148s). The cabane set up used a shaped block of balsa, saw slotted for the ply cabane pieces to slide into. Once glued in it was strong with instant alignment. The wire hold down and rubber bands never gave any problems. Mine had a Fox .15 and my buddy's an OS .10 . Take-Offs were hairy, accounting for most of our earlier dinks. We hand launched till our strip was ready. After launch they twisted and bucked like rodeo bulls! We found it best not to fool with it, just stand by and wait till it straightened up and started a steady climb. Then we could play with the sticks. Once our strip was ready, ROGs were the same, wild! It's short coupled and combined with the P-Factor make it boogie, so stay away from the .25, you won't need it! All Stars then were all 3 Channel planes. Ours flew very well at low speeds and landings were no problem. If I were to build one from scratch today, I'd lenghten the tail moment a bit for stability, and with today's smaller servos, adding one in the bottom wing for ailerons shouldn't add too much weight. One further note, I understand ACE still sells the foam wings, but get the Constant Chord set, you'll like them better. Good flying.

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

I had the RCM plans, and also built two from the kits over the years. First one had a Fox .15 on it, the last one had an old Enya .09 on it. First one was three channels with regular servos, the last one was 4 channel with all micro hardware.

The kit built ones just come out heavy, and the little plane could use a weight-watchers routine. Since you've got a kit, I'd use the parts and scratch-build one from much lighter wood, and use an OS 10 or .15 on it. If a lighter engine is out there (maybe Norvel) I'd use that. Use micro servos, and a small battery. Keep it as light as you can.

As long as you're at it, if you making it all from scratch, build constant chord wings instead of the tapered ones, as you really need the wing area. I put two sub-micro servos in the lower wing for the ailerons, so I would have more room in the fuselage for other stuff, so it had 5 servos in the plane in total.

The plane is a lot of fun, and looks cool in the air and on the ground. I've had my three, so I don't know if I'd build another one... :)


my three cents,

phil in austin

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

does the kit come with a full size plan's?? for my kit just has one paper, and it is not a full size plan???its just a side view and a top view of the finished model,and a two page leaflet that talks about putting the new designed tail section and wing angles!!! em i missing something
did u guys cover the wings are paint them??
anyone have a pic??

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

P.S. how did u guys line up the out side cabanes(supports) in the proper spot? how far in from the leading edge does ur cabane sit??

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

No, the kit doesn't have full size plans. One of Ace's little tricks. You get this half-size-sheet-thing that showed you how to lay it out using their parts. Perhaps there were copyright issues with RCM? We may never know.

The upper cabane ply strut went to the back of the big wooden block that is the top hatch/wing holder. The slot they cut is too long, usually. The 'plans' should show that. Line up the bottom on the struts with the bottom of the hatch/block, and it should be right. Don't forget to hollow out the front of that block, to clear the tank. I could never get anything bigger than a two ounce tank in there.


phil in austin

P.S. RCM sells the plan for this for less than $10. It's worth it.

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

I checked the RCM web site and the plans are $6.00. As soon as I find 3 plans I want I will be ordering them.

Dru.

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

thx for the info
i got the inside hatch cabanes no prob
but what i was needing is on the out side wing supports how far back from the leading edge
did u go before pushing it in to the wing
1/4 inch??1/8??/

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

Are you talking about the outer struts that are 3/4 of the way out on the wing? If so, they aren't really necessary to fly the plane. But they look cool!

If you're talking about the top of the inner cabane, when you place the wire frame on top of the ply cabane, the instructions show where to place that, and I lined up the front of the wing to just enough of that to clear the rubber bands.

On the outer struts, I think it was a "by the look of it", and the way it fit the top of the bottom wing curvature. I think it was back like an inch on the bottom of the top wing, and maybe like halfway back on the top of the bottom wing. I also leaned mine 'outbound' on the top wing, giving them a bit of a slant toward the tip. But, that's me... :) I made sure the little pushrod piece that holds it on go almost all the way through the wings, because they will pop off in the air if you bounce it around alot.

phil in austin

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

Forget the interplane struts! Don't need em, they just fall out
during those violent snap rolls anyway. Just use adequate strapping tape on those wings.
Dam, I'm getting the itch to build #3 now, and I have 4 projects
cooking already:

Daze

Re: ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

Hello,
I built this in the 70's, a Great plane. Flew a Cox 15 Medallion, was a rocket using just rudder & elevator. Just used colored plastic tape for the wings, and doped the body. Make sure to offset the engine for torque, Mine needed more than I added. I put a couple of old picts in my gallery, not the best but it fits the look. The "wires" in the wings really helped!
Remby

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

hey thx remby those were sweet pic's! so is it retired are just waiting for another day
i like the wires are they working? are just looks

about how many degrees did u go on the motor?

ace models ALL STAR BIPE??
 

Hello,
Thanks for the kind words! The picts are old, from the late 70's. Long gone now. The "wires" were added for that bipe look, but they were stiff enough to stop the flex from the foam.. I think I first added about 1% offset! Big mistake, never crashed because of this, but it did not like it. I don't wish to guess about this, perhaps another could help here, but do add more than 1%! A great fun plane, this one came with constant cord wings.

Happy flights!
Remby