ORIGINAL: David Gladwin
ORIGINAL: highhorse
ORIGINAL: David Gladwin
Sorry, Highhorse, I WAS referring to BE's comment (only) but in the RAF we took spinning extremely seriously and at CFS we went into the theory and practice in very great detail. Based on my CFS training I taught it to other instructors (and students, some of Air Rank) at the Jet Refresher School where I was the senior flying standards QFI. Perhaps our RAF teaching was rubbish, I doubt it. Same recovery technique is taught in GA and gliding.
Sad you have to start making childishly silly personal remarks, adds nothing to your flawed argument about this but perhaps you should read the CFS notes on spinning. (enclosed). Anytime you want a robust, technical, intelligent , perhaps even cogent, debate based on professional knowledge, go ahead but leave the personal bit to the usual clueless keyboard warriors. Never fails to amaze me the complete bollox some guys write here. Keeping the stick back in a spin could well mean the spin stops only on impact. God help Bald Eagle's students (if he really IS an instructor) and god knows who taught him this dangerous nonsense.
Of course some aircraft DON'T respond well to standard spin recovery, eg Christen Eagle in which my friend Kraivuth of PST died in a spinning accident, (and some other aircraft such as some jets are often prohibited fron intentional spinning, Phantom Tornado, ) but the EE Lightning DID, even though the conservation of angular momentum with its high mass fuselage could somewhat delay recovery and initially speed up rotation, (many aircraft will intially speed up before recovery, due to that conservation of angular momentum, its a sign of the nose coming down as recovery commences !) but recover it would, using standard spin recovery. All you needed was height and lots of it.
Now read this, below, digest it, see the recovery technique for upright and inverted spins, and get back to me, and I'll tell the RAF, CFS and ETPS what they were doing wrong for all these years !! I'll pass on your comments and advice !
http://www.sssa.org.za/e107_files/do...7_spinning.pdf
Let there be no mistake, anyone who thinks they can recover a model jet from a spin by holding up elevator (in an upright spin) might just as well stand back and enjoy the inevitable crash.
Over to you !
Regards,
David.
Typical Gladwin Post, (I'm a RAF pilot and the rest of you who don't have MY background are dopes) and from the guy who in the ''Downwind Turn Myth'' thread cited his observance of pelicans for support of flawed aerodynamic theory
David, I'm certain the RAF took their spins seriously, and God bless them for doing so, but that doesn't mean the rest of us haven't also. What the RAF teaches to thousand of students who will be flying dozens of types of aircraft is not necessarily the be-all and end-all of aerodynamic theory, much less optimized practice throughout the world when applied to specific types. There ARE other qualified sources of information in the world, and many of them have been updated since your experiences ''back in the day''
My own experience isn't to be sneezed at, having taught acro myself with emphasis on ''general'' spin recoveries from inadvertent spins (such as would typically be taught in the military or an average flight school) plus...... specialized recoveries from intentional spins at low level for competition where over-rotation will lose you the contest, and for show work where a delayed recovery will potentially cost your life.
More specifically, your method in my Pitts or Sukhoi would mean the difference between a nearly instant recovery with the nose roughly 45 degrees below the horizon and a ''*** just happened'' recovery with triple the rotation and the nose 30 degrees lower. This revelation came to me when (with at least a thousand spins logged already) I called the Pitts factory to complain about the rigging on my new S-2B because the spin recoveries weren't crisp. They put me in touch with the factory test pilot who's job description included spinning every airplane on initial test flights. He's the one who set me straight, explained what was happening aerodynamically and refined my technique from merely adequate to quite precise.
Regards to all,
Don
PS: Guys, remember that gyroscopics are typically responsible for making a flat spin flat. Pulling the engine to idle may be vital in recovering a flat spin in your airframe, depending on the type and the direction of the spin. Practice them inverted first because the recoveries from inverted are much faster due to the vertical stab being in ''clean'' air, but remember also that the gyroscopics will have an opposite effect an upright right or left rudder spin vs it's inverted counterpart, so plan accordingly.
Don, take more water with it mate, if you read my post you will see I refer to machines like the Christen Eagle, (which killed my friend, Kraivuth ) guess Pitts are the same, don't know, never flown one. .............and no, just because I am an ex RAF pilot doesn't mean I treat ALL others as dopes, very, very, far from it, just those who try and
prove they are !! Pelicans, do you need a sense of humour implant !! Must be the way i right it !!!!
What you CAN'T say is that techniques for aeroplanes, such as the Pitts, with unusual or quirky spinning techniques can be applied, in general, as BE (he does spout some complete and utter rubbish) suggests. I am prepared to prove that too ! Still waiting to hear where he did his instructor training, if any . My guess is that this guy is a complete fraud based on the nonsense he has posted.
Perhaps you should accept that the physics of flying are the same on both sides of the Atlantic (or Pacific) unless Boeing taught me rubbish, funnily enough my 767 flew exactly the same all over the world. ! Come and talk about it at Oshkosh next July I ''ll even buy the beers, or even dinner !
........and Falcon wings, I'd rather listen to the teachings of the guys from CFS or ETPS than some muppet on RCU !! Come and join me at Oshkosh, have an intelligent discussion, dinner is on me, we MIGHT even have a robust discussion. Paper for your delicate posterior provided ! (how do you BRAKE the sound barrier, broken it hundreds of times but never braked it )
Another glass of chardonnay beckons, keeps me sane in the midst of this drivel.
Keep the blueside up.
David G.