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Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50"

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Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50"

Old 04-19-2011, 07:06 AM
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RickShane
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Default Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50"

Hello! I just bought the Great Planes Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50" Combo with the Great Planes ElectriFly RimFire .32 42-50-800, and the ElectriFly Silver Series 45 amp Brushless Electronic Speed Control from Tower. Going through the manual online I have a question about the ESC. From what I understand I need to use the BEC IF I run a 4S pack, or need to use a Rx pack. Here's the link to the combo deal...

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0161p?&I=LZ1551

In the manual it states...
For all out 3D type fl ying we recommend the Great Planes
Power Series LiPo 2100mAh 14.8V or FlightPower 2170mAh
14.8V battery with an APC 12" x 6E propeller. A voltage
regulator will also be required to power the receiver.

I still haven't bought a LiPo battery, or charger. Any suggestions? This is my first electric ARF build. I have the UMX Beast & Radian, and been flying glow for 20 years, so I've never put together all the stuff for an electric plane.

I also bought the Futaba S3115 Micro High Torque Servo. Anyone used these? How do you like them?

If you have this plane can you tell me how you set it up?

Thanks!
Old 04-19-2011, 09:35 AM
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Zim-uh-tosa
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50"

Not sure which ESC you are installing but below is a picture of the Electrifly 45 amp ESC that is on Towers website. Clearly it says 5v for the internal bec. I run 4 servos on my 3D plane with an external BEC set at 6v. Without the external BEC my servos are much slower and cant efficiently move the large control surfaces. There really was a noticeable difference in performance. For reference, I was using the Hitec HS65hb servos...Before you install anything, make sure that the servos that are being installed in the plane can handle a higher voltage than what the ESC is feeding them!

Looking at the specs of this plane on Tower, I found a major problem with what they recommend the customer buy for this plane....They want you to install a RimFire 42-50-800 Outrunner brushless motor, but only a 45A ESC? Look at the specs below for that motor and you will see that if you use 4S batteries(that was what was recommended) and that motor, you will be sucking up to 80A out of a 45A esc!! Your batteries would probably fry or catch fire before you even landed the maiden flight.


Max. Constant Current: 50A
Max. Surge Current: 80A
Max. Constant Watts: 925W
Max. Burst Watts: 1480W
No Load Current: 2.6A
Input Voltage: 11.1-14.8V (3-4S LiPo)
RPM/V (kV Rating): 800
Weight: 7oz (198g)

If I have miscalculated something or missed anything somewhere please let me know.

Have fun with your plane!

Z



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Old 04-19-2011, 11:18 AM
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custombuiltrc
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50"

If you have the time, go to RCG's and read the forum there, (nothing against RCUniverse). A lot of guys are using the Turnigy Plush 60amp BEC/ESC. You wouldn't need the external BEC then.
Old 04-19-2011, 02:03 PM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50"

Technically speaking, the 60A ESC you mention is not sufficient for the recommended motor either. I know that the motor has a constant of 50A but if you hammer on the throttle at full vertical and you max the motor out at 80A Burst there is going to be a problem. As a rule, I buy an ESC that will cover the burst Amps of the motor plus an additional 10 amps at least, if not more. IE: I run a 50A ESC on my plane that has a motor that puts out 38Amps at burst.... Im covered + 12 Amps

Anyway, Good luck! Take your time if this is your first plane or a step-up plane. I wonder if most people realize that this plane, with their recommended settings, puts the power at about 3 times the power you need for 3D flights??? A whopping 423 watts per pound!!! For reference, I fly 3D fine with hovers at 178 wpp...

x2 on RCG.. Much more going on over there for specific planes and general information.
Old 04-19-2011, 02:25 PM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50"



Here is the combo setup I bought...

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0161p?&I=LZ1551

I don't think I'm going to be running a 4S battery for now. I'll be runninga 11.1v 3S battery.And I bought the Futaba S3115 Micro High Torque Servos

Old 04-19-2011, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50"

In my opinion, you will need to buy a 100A ESC for this plane. You can see that this one does 6v on the BEC as well, so you would not need the external one. [link=http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-c-platinum-100a-v1.html]Something like this [/link]


Regardless of 11.1v or 14.8v, the motor is capable of 80A burst....

Check your battery in the plane often the first flights to see if it is getting really hot. You might also want to get with Great Planes customer service and discuss reasoning on this one?? lol..

I'm out! Good luck....

Old 04-20-2011, 05:27 AM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50"

I think everything will be fine. Bottom line Great Planes dosen't just throw together these combos. I talked with all my LHS, & I talked with my electronics engineer at work and they ALL told me I would have no problems at all. I didn't quite understand everything my buddy at work was saying. But he's my flying buddy too, so he'll always be there to help me. (Radio Station Engineer) He did say the numbers aren't real accurate on the motor, and the numbers are the MAX, NOT the current flow. I do want to talk with Great planes and get their thinking.
Thanks!

Anyone have the Futaba S3115 servos? How do you like them?
Old 04-20-2011, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50

Those s3115 Futaba servos can only handle 4.8v. If you put more through them, they will fry prematurely. With that said though, these are the servos that the reviewer uses on RCG. They will do almost 40 oz/in of torque at 4.8v, so apparently its enough. Wish more people would mention the small fact that they are 4.8v ONLY. We had this debate 2 years ago on a heli forum and consensus said that they are not worth the headache. Most ESC's have an internal BEC of at least 5.2v, still too much voltage for these servos. (What?), now you have to install a voltage regulator on your plane as well? Best alternative and closest match to those servos that allow 6v would be the Hitec HS81(cheaper too). Me personally, I only use metal gear or Hitec Karbonite geared servos on my Helis and planes. Those Futaba gears broke every time i crashed(helis are very hard on servo gears in a crash). Never broke a Hitec Karbonite gear, ever!

Anyway, I see you asked the same questions on RCG, doing a search I found a few threads on your plane, including a review. Don't get too excited though, the review is like 2 years old itself.....Pay more attention to the user thread.

[link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=936333&highlight=great+planes+edge+540t]Review[/link]

[link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=900630&highlight=Great+Planes+540T+50]101 pages of user posts![/link]

FYI: On RC Planet's web site, they sell this plane and recommend a 100A ESC!!!! I don't trust Great Planes at all can you tell? I did have a plane from them once and it took more mods to make it fly correctly than I ever could have thought! Beginner Yak 3D plane ( yes, the floppy one).

I think that bottom line, Great Planes does just that; "Throw together these combos". They would have to charge more money for a 100A ESC and they are keeping cost down with the 45A?

Since I seem to be the only one responding, you are stuck with my logic until someone that has actually used a 45A ESC on the motor in the Combo that can pull 80A... I like to see people succeed when they spend that kind of money, take from this what you will...

Z
Old 04-20-2011, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50



On the 45A ESC/BEC the BEC will allow only 5V no matter what battery you run, right? Looking at the .32 rimfire motor at my LHS it says right on the box to use a 45A ESC. So Idon't get where I need to use an external BEC?? I just don't understand that.

I didn't notice the Futaba S3115 were not rated for 6V until my order shipped. I guess if I need to I can run a RX battery pack. Or I could send them back for the S3114's or a good HiTech servo.

Old 04-21-2011, 11:13 AM
  #10  
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50

I read a bit of the RCG thread on your plane, dudes were smoking 60A ESC's in this plane....Maybe it's a ploy to get you to keep buying them? Good news on the motor/esc I guess if that's all it needs, I wont touch that one anymore. Something of a conundrum/paradox to me....Breaks every rule I was ever taught, lol!

Moving on. I can not remember exactly how those servos were used with stock bec's being at least 5.2-5.4ish volts. I think they were just used until they were fried or the heli was wrecked. [link=http://shop.tomsrc.com/index.php?cPath=76]Check out my favorite place to buy servos! Great resource for comparing servos as well because all the info for every servo is listed in order down the line.(Sometimes you have to add to cart to see lower price).[/link] Toms RC sells Hitec and Futaba cheaper than anyone?, especially if buying a flight pack of 3-4 servos. You can get the HS81's for around 10 bucks apiece if you buy 3-4...Shipping is real cheap too and fast(except he is closed all weekend). Ships out of San Jose, Ca.

You are correct on the ESC question. The ESC's internal BEC will feed the receiver a specified voltage no matter what battery you have connected to it. When installing an external (U)BEC, you MUST disconnect the red wire on the ESC that is plugged into the receiver(middle positive wire on the JR 3-wire plug that goes into the receiver) so that you are not feeding the receiver 2 sources of power. The UBEC then supply's all of the power to anything plugged into the receiver at the new voltage. If you are installing LED's, you would have to use a resistor if your LED's were rated below the 6V, or they will fry. Be aware of the voltage requirements of your accessories and servos....On the other side of the UBEC you hard wire the positive and negative wires from your UBEC to the positive and negative battery terminals(I solder them on the wires first, then add a Deans male connector and shrink wrap. Your flight battery will plug directly into this connector). Make sure that the UBEC "jumper" is set to the voltage you want (only if you have more than one choice). You can find wiring diagrams for adding UBEC's everywhere on the net if you need extra help.

Good luck.....This plane is going to be so effing ballistic!! lol

Just for fun: [link=http://www.rcplanet.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=GPMA1414]This is the 72" version of your plane.[/link]. It has a 100A ESC installed and has a burst of 72A!!! LOLz (that sounds correct to me!)

The motor specs fore the 72" 540 are:
Max. Constant Current: 45A
Max. Surge Current: 72A
Max. Constant Watts: 2500W
No Load Current: 1.5A
Weight: 22.4oz (634g)

Z
Old 04-21-2011, 03:43 PM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50



UPDATE:

I got all my stuff today, and what a very light & beautiful plane. Everything was very well packed and no damage that I can see. There are a few wrinkles in the MonoKote, but nothing my heat gun & Iron can't handle. I've done my fair share of putting MonoKote on planes.

I am going to get the external CC BEC for the extra insurance & peace of mind. And start out with a eflight 3S 3200 or 3600 mAh LiPo battery to get me in the air on the sport setup.

I am still shopping around for a good LiPo charger. This one from Nitroplanes looks really nice, anyone have it?..

http://www.nitroplanes.com/thac6smbalic.html

Thanks!

Old 04-22-2011, 01:42 PM
  #12  
Zim-uh-tosa
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50

Nitroplanes, nitrorcx, xheli, hobbyparts, raidenthech and a few more are all linked to the same warehouse and customer service out of the Los Angeles area. Always check Hobbypartz.com first because they are the cheapest place to buy the same thing from the same warehouse.....Here is the link to that charger on Hobby Partz...Saves you 10 bucks if you buy it there. [link=http://www.hobbypartz.com/thac6smbachw.html]Thunder A6[/link]

Only thing I didn't like about this charger is the 5A limit. Some of my batteries that are labelled 40c can be safely charged at 4c. My 1650 40c battery can be charged at 6.6A....There goes that charger for me. I wonder if the new 90c batteries can be charged at 9C?? ...My Thunder Power C610 was slightly expensive but really a nice charger that will do up to 10A. Charges many types of batteries as well. If you don't think that you need to go past 1c on charging and the largest battery you will be charging is a 5000mah at 1c, go for it.

Z


Old 05-23-2011, 06:31 AM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50


Just to clarify a little bit on the motor/ESC thing. The current draw is very dependent on the size of the propeller and the Kv rating - RPM-per-Volt. Electric motors will always try to turn whatever prop is connected at their rated RPM-per-Volt, and in so doing will try to draw whatever current is needed to do that. The flip-side of that is that you cannot 'over-rev' an electric motor by fitting a very small prop, in the same way that you can with an IC engine.

The first post mentions a 12x6e - I've got one of these fitted to my Precision Aerobatics Katana MD, which is 43" span and has a much smaller motor than you are using. If that prop is enough for the airframe, I don't think you're in danger of pulling too much current. On the other hand you may find it doesn't generate very much thrust.

You might want to look at the AXI web site where they have some very useful guidelines on prop size, airframe size/weight and current draw - just search through until you find a similar powered engine with similar Kv rating...

http://www.modelmotors.cz/?page=2
Old 05-23-2011, 01:14 PM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50

Dang V1nn1e, you beat me to it. I was just going to suggest the prop load is a top factor to consider when trying to determine current draw on the motor. I get the feeling that is what Tower is counting on when putting together the package deal. Of course if the prop size were to be stepped up from their recommendation then all bets are off. The speed control lets out the magic smoke and we know where that story ends. $$$
Old 08-04-2011, 05:35 PM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50


ORIGINAL: Zim-uh-tosa

Not sure which ESC you are installing but below is a picture of the Electrifly 45 amp ESC that is on Towers website. Clearly it says 5v for the internal bec. I run 4 servos on my 3D plane with an external BEC set at 6v. Without the external BEC my servos are much slower and cant efficiently move the large control surfaces. There really was a noticeable difference in performance. For reference, I was using the Hitec HS65hb servos...Before you install anything, make sure that the servos that are being installed in the plane can handle a higher voltage than what the ESC is feeding them!

Looking at the specs of this plane on Tower, I found a major problem with what they recommend the customer buy for this plane....They want you to install a RimFire 42-50-800 Outrunner brushless motor, but only a 45A ESC? Look at the specs below for that motor and you will see that if you use 4S batteries(that was what was recommended) and that motor, you will be sucking up to 80A out of a 45A esc!! Your batteries would probably fry or catch fire before you even landed the maiden flight.


Max. Constant Current: 50A
Max. Surge Current: 80A
Max. Constant Watts: 925W
Max. Burst Watts: 1480W
No Load Current: 2.6A
Input Voltage: 11.1-14.8V (3-4S LiPo)
RPM/V (kV Rating): 800
Weight: 7oz (198g)

If I have miscalculated something or missed anything somewhere please let me know.
Have fun with your plane!

Z
I now I'm a little late to this party but you are way off on saying a bigger esc as in 2x the size is needed for the Rimfire motor
the esc listed is the matching esc for that motor from the guys who make them!
it's also the same esc I believe that comes in the SV27 boat and it is an amazing esc that it can take some serious amp load
we have even used bigger motors that are rated at twice the amp load with the esc and it works amazing still
planes don't pull the constant amp load like boats do, and this setup is just fine ... motor and esc
I have a 50amp Castle esc on my 540T and it rips the skies with no heat issues at all with a 13x6 prop on 4s
Old 08-14-2011, 06:37 PM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50


ORIGINAL: Zim-uh-tosa

Technically speaking, the 60A ESC you mention is not sufficient for the recommended motor either. I know that the motor has a constant of 50A but if you hammer on the throttle at full vertical and you max the motor out at 80A Burst there is going to be a problem. As a rule, I buy an ESC that will cover the burst Amps of the motor plus an additional 10 amps at least, if not more. IE: I run a 50A ESC on my plane that has a motor that puts out 38Amps at burst.... Im covered + 12 Amps

Anyway, Good luck! Take your time if this is your first plane or a step-up plane. I wonder if most people realize that this plane, with their recommended settings, puts the power at about 3 times the power you need for 3D flights??? A whopping 423 watts per pound!!! For reference, I fly 3D fine with hovers at 178 wpp...

x2 on RCG.. Much more going on over there for specific planes and general information.
Just b/c a motor is rated for somthing does not mean its going to pull it,. That 800KV motor on 4s with a 12x6 prop isnt going to pull more than the 45amp esc can handle. Now if you prop up to say a 13x6.5 or a 14x7 would will need a 60 to 80 amp esc but then you will also need a bigger battery. I cant see why the recommended setup wont work??? I have 2 different 800KV motors and know what they pull on 4s lipos. Putting a 12x6 prop on it isnt going to pull that much

Old 08-15-2011, 06:26 AM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50

Just a little update....YESthe 45A ESCworks justfine, and I have a stand alone BEC.The lipos I'm using are4S 2200mAh, & 3000mAh 30Cand they workgreat.I have been flyingmy Edge 540tall summer long with NO problems what so ever. Not even broken landing gear, (Due to the way I beefed up the landing gear. Videos below) What a fun, great plane to fly!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8gGakfj7Vc[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm4UEmRwRm4[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgqbowkjhKs[/youtube]
Old 10-24-2011, 10:58 AM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50

I run a 15 inch prop on a Turnigy G32 800kv I believe, on 3s 2650/ 3s 3000 and 4s 2200/ 4s 2650, Using an Align 60A ESC with internal BEC set for 6volts. HS82MG in aileron, and turnigy on the tail.

Besides a few incidences on my part, no problems with my setup!! And climbs like no tomorrow on 4s!!
Old 10-24-2011, 01:37 PM
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Default RE: Edge 540T E-Performance Series 3D EP ARF 50

is this plane a .25 nitro size??
HK has some new Eflite size motors I want to try out

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