Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

That is where it started... But if you look closer you can see that the whole internal structure is laser cut, not stick contruction. It is also completly tab lock construction. So basically, it is not copied anything but the scale.

How did yours turn out?

3dandpatternflyer

What kind of amperage are u pulling?? There tons of li-polys that can handle amperage draw nowadays. Look at apogee of like a 3s2p and it can handle 44 amps or bursts up to 58.

Kokam released there new 2100 mah 20C discharge. You can pull up to 42 amps outta them.

Thunder Power has tons to choose from and u can pull 50-60 amps from them.

The weight savings over ni-mh's would be tremendous.

TTYl,
Andrew T.

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

90 amps gets me close to the thrust requirements. Only downside is the cost... I would have to run 5 packs to get the runtime...

3dandpatternflyer

Which motor are u running that pulls 90 amps??

TTYl,
Andrew T.

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

that little motor out of the Honda electric car....[X(]

Don't know yet... The Hacker pulls 60 and the torqman pulls 90

peter_m

any flying pics

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

Nope... Just getting off the drawing boards into reality. I plan on building and tweeking the airframe to perfection this winter, then building the final flying version intime for the Toledo Show next year.

Mike Parsons

Levi,
Interesting. I caught the fact that you are going to cover it, but I missed what you were using for skin. Balsa or foam skin?. I was thinking 22/30/2, but if it doesnt come under 8 pounds, that wont work. 10 pounds would be an 8S3P, C50 12XL territory. Should be intersting. Looking forward to watching this one come to fruition.

-Mike

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

The fuselage is getting finished up with a former/stringer T Deck. 2mm Depron will sheet it. The Canopy/Hatch is CNC cut white foam, hollowed out, and then sheeted with 2mm depron.

The Wing is going to be open bay, foam ribs, Carbon/foam spar (duale blade style) and the LE and ailerons are sheeted in 2mm depron. Everything gets covered after its done with ultracoat.

Sounds like it'll work?

I think that I can get the weight where it needs to be. If it ends up lighter than planned (so far it looks like it) then I can get away with the smaller motor and pack.

I had the crazy idea of running 3 axi motors on a belt drive... can you run multiple brushless motors on a single esc? (of necessary amperage)

I want to fly it indoors... occasionally, just to say it can be done!

SirKnight

My Feedback: (6)

I know some lipo's say 20C or higher, but I've taking to a few that know a lot more about this than me. What I was told it was the tabs that would burn off, that's where lipo's are week. Plus the cost is a big factor. Plus I don't even know if this is even going to work LOL and invest a few thousand in Lipo's don't think so. But the Torcman TM685-40 geared swinging a 36" prop has powered 50+ pound planes with authority.

The output of the motor I'm talking about is rated up to 4500 watts! So I'm going to have to use a lot of CF in the torque box to from twisting it off. I mean power near a DA 100.

What my requirements to Torcman is to wind the motor so I can get around 6500 rpm from a 26x10 prop, that means a bunch of amps. Using a PAC prop would give it little prop rip LOL. Love the sound of a PAC prop.

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

That'll be cool. I'm shooting for less weight, less power and slower speeds. Basically a 35% plane that flys just like your 40" foamy. I think that I am going to get some weird looks from the "real" giant scale guys over this one. Foam is still only a marginally acceptable material for monst people.

SirKnight

My Feedback: (6)

I'm looking more into building a big foamie that I can fly an IMAC sequence with and do 3D. With big servos and all. With a little prop rip and guess what I think I've figured out how to smoke! A customer of mine owns a band which he uses a smoke machine. He gave me a little bit of the stuff he uses which is low temp. I put a little bit in an old kicker bottle and sprayed a little on a Himax motor after it got hot. I had my whole shop smoked up LOL and it didn't take much. Was thinking of a way to rig it up on a little foamie. Just can't find a really teeny pump motor. If this Torcman gets hot enough might just have smoke too LOL. This stuff is water based so I don't think it'll hurt the motor. Back in the old days I broke in slot car motors under water. Imagine the looks I'd get! A foamie electric that smoked LOL!

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

I think that is what this will be Just not as heavy, so not as much power is needed. More fragile maybe.

Never got any feedback on 3 smaller AXI motors on a belt drive... Any one tried something like this?

Have you started building your Extra yet?

Mike Parsons

I see no reason why this wouldnt work. Some have had success running one ESC on two motors. However, the problem comes from the ESC not being able to sync the two motors. I personally would run one ESC per motor. However, for that price, a C50 and Jeti ESC would be just as pricey. If you are still looking for someone to build along, once you get to that point, let me know what the cost is. Should be fun.

-Mike

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

Yup, Would be cool to have a couple guys doing this truly experimental build. Once I get the fuse design down and all lined up, I'll get you a set of foam to play with. Then comes the wing. It is the real beauty out of the plane!

SirKnight

My Feedback: (6)

I'm building mine this winter when things slow down. Have mine all drew up wings and all, been working off and on the plans since last Feb. Think of something new and make a few changes here and there. The wings I drew up might fit your Extra their all built up with foam and skinned in foam with CF spars if you use Auto Cad I could send you a copy. Maybe do a few changes to make them fit. They'll have to be jig built. I used the same principle as the one I drew up for a person that was going to kit a 35% 260. After 400 hrs of work on the plans never did get anything from him [>:] That pane comes out weighing 23 LBS. if you really watch the weight of the balsa. Heard of one guy that got it down to 21 LBS. I know I can get the air frame lighter, but the batteries are going to be the killer.

da king

My Feedback: (5)

This is just AWSOME !!!! LOL !!!!! I love it !!!!!
You probably said already but......what is the projected weight?? Thunder power has some killer new cell's. I just cant see dumping a bunch of round cell's in a hunk of foam. Also........I think you need to look at inruner's a little more. A few buddy's have the small out runners and there nice and quiet but............They just cant compete with the inrunner and gear box. SORRY !! The normal motor's have more power and run longer. At lease in the smaller motor's. I just cant see putting a slow rpm motor in a gear box. Maybe it's just me ?!?!?!

I know you can get about 9 lb's of thrust out of a mega 22/30/2 with a 5s pack. Do you have a ideal speed you would like to see?? I am thinking maybe.......40 to 50 mph ??!?!!? Should be enough to get you out of trouble ?!

I wonder if you could do it with a couple of aveox 27/26 in a belt drive or innerdemon ???

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

Moto Calc is predicting the best setup to be a 22x8 prop, on a 8s3p 2100 pack. Speed should be in the 40-50 mph range, level full power. That is turning 5300 rpms at WOT on the Hacker B-50 11XL with the 6.7:1 GBX. That puts a 63 amp load on the pack which is right at the max for that pack. but here is the cool part...

19.75 POUNDS of raw thrust!


Here is my ROUGH calculations on the planes specs....

Motor weight: 13.6oz
Batteries 24 cells (8s3p): 34.8 oz
Rec: 1 oz
Serovs: 10 oz
Rec batt: 3 oz
esc: 2 oz
Misc Radio/motor/servo gear: 5 oz
-------------------
Gear Total : 69.4 oz (4.3 lbs)

The remaining 4.7 lbs is all free airframe! At that gets me to my design goal of 10lbs!

So do I sound like I'm on the right track?

The fuselage above as shown is only 6.8 oz... I plan on 2 lbs for the finished/covered/cowled fuse. The rest is in the wings!

3D-kid330

My Feedback: (1)

HOLY COW Am I seeing what i think i am seeing???!!! A 35% In at 10 lbs? wow wow wow!

What do you think the cost of completely setting it up will be when you have it in kit form? I'm always tempted[>:]



3D-kid330

Shortman

My Feedback: (21)

Thats awesome Levi, I personally think a one motor set-up is a much wiser choice as its simpler, cost effective, and for less weight I know there is a motor that will give you the power. Another option if the Hacker wouldn't do it which I doubt would be a Lehner. They are carbon fiber cased and weight ounces less then a Hacker and produce more power and run off probably the best gear box out there, the Cobri from B-P-P which has incredible gear mesh. At 10lbs, you have a lot of options.

Mike Parsons

Levi,
The Hacker B50 or C50 10XL looks good. I would want to keep this to a 5S or 6S bird. That will keep the weight down and at 10 pounds, will 3D it easily.

-Mike

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

I am seeing the possabilities... I was afraid I was going to come up short on thrust. But there are actually tons of options out there if the airframe is 10-15 lbs AUW.

The cost of batteries will be bigger than normal... but still a whole lot less than a DA-100!!! The airframe will be pretty cheep too. I don't know how long a complete kit will take to cut on the laser yet, but I am looking for a price tag of $400 for the whole kit, carbon gear, carbon cowl, carbon wheel pants, and all the rest of the laser cut stuff.



What is the thoughts on servos? Airseed will be in the 50mph range...

Mike Parsons

I would say 80-90 oz servos minimum with 100+ prefered. Even though the weight will be 10-15, the control surfaces will still be the size of a 35%.


-Mike

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

I have been considering going with micros...



Weight: 17.2 Grams / 0.64 oz
Size: 29.5 x 13 x 26mm / 1.16 x 0.51 x 1.03 in.
Torque At 4.8V: 57 oz.in.
Speed At 4.8V: 0.16 sec / 60°
Torque At 6.0V: 62 oz.in.
Speed At 6.0V: 0.14 sec / 60°
Ball Bearing: Single
Metal Gears: Yes


Not to shabby for $22. I think that running 2 on each aileron, 1 on each elevator half, and a gang of 3 on the rudder would be perfect. It saves some weight, cost, and adds redundant control.

Levi_Jordan

My Feedback: (21)

That is the BMS-380MAX Micro Servo ($21.75 @ www.balsapr.com)