Ben D Wing

Altacom,
I agree in principle with your comments, but on the Mini Funtana the stick mount is attatched across two formers at a predetermined angle to give the requisite side side thrust and down thrust. In this case mounting the motor square to the firewall would not suffice.

altacom

My Feedback: (3)

It's been over a year since I lost my MF. As I remeber. it did have the Firewall square. But even so, If I were to do it again, I'd use the standoffs, and calculate the necessary angles. It is so much easier to make it work. A washer either on the left side, or the top, and you get pretty much 1 Degree per washer. Need more - add another washer.

Works for me!

Ben D Wing

Now I get your drift , I initially thought you were suggesting to fix the motor square on to the firewall. Using washers is exactly what I have done with my mount, although they can't be seen in the photo.

Todd D

My Feedback: (51)

I'm dicthing the Eflite park 400 and crappy GWS bearbox in the MF.
Santa put a Hacker A30-28S under the tree. WOOHOO.
Going to use a CC Phoenix 25 speed control, Apogee 2080 (continuous 22A, burst 5-10 seconds to 29A), Just wondering which prop, APC 11X4.7 SF seems to be the way guys are going? Is this correct?
Thanks,

altacom

My Feedback: (3)

That prop will work for you, but with the power you are putting out might make for short run time, and battery overheating.
With that kind of power (motor) you might find that a 10 inch prop will give you good performance (increased RPMs) and lower current draw giving the best of both worlds.

I read an article that suggests most of us are over proping our planes, and reducing flight time and, believe it or not, battery LIFE. Each time you get a Li-Po hot, you reduce it's lifespan. If it gets hot on a regular basis, it can drop to as low as 25-30 cycles and the battery quits putting out. Cool batteries will give in the range of 600 cycles. With the cost of Li-Po's, I can't afford to get only 20-30 cycles from them.

Just my humble opinion.

Todd D

My Feedback: (51)

Altacom,

I like what you're saying. Perhaps smaller diameter is the way to go.

Would you recommend regular APC e-flite, or slow APC slow flier prop?

Things good in WA state? I did four years USAF at McChord AFB 1987-91. Good memories left out there.

altacom

My Feedback: (3)

Using the E props or slo flyer props depends on the RPM you are generating. It is not recommended to use the slo flyer props if the RPM is greater than 7900 RPM. Slo flyer props do give a bit more thrust for the same current. Never tried them on higher RPM planes so can't be sure.

On my MF I used APC 10/5E and it flew great for me. I don't do 3D, so it did fly good aerobatics and good 10-12 Minutes on 3S-1P 2000 MAH li-Pos. I use nothing but AXI motors, and on the MF an AXI 2212/20. Drew 19 AMPS static WOT. WEight was 27 oz. RTF. The motor gave a static thrust (measured with a pull scale ) of 30 oz.

Still rainy and cold here. But it's winter and to be expected. Occasional day suitable for flying, and will begin getting ready for IMAC next year.

asybra00

My Feedback: (12)

Hey all just got my MF and am VERY happy with the build thus far. Heres a few pics and i had a couple questions. Is the Thunder Power 2100 3 cell going to be too heavy for this little guy?? Im going to be running the AXi 2808/24 with the CC Pheonix 35 and have done some mods for the mount off some posts put on here. And secondly has anyone used the Sullivan stearable tailwheel for this at all?? If so does it work very well?? I know the mount job looks REALLY sloppy i just epoxied the CRAP out of it so the black paint hids some of the epoxy globs lol.

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

asybra00,
It will fly Ok @ 24oz, but at 21oz it fly's much better. A 2100 is going to add about 2 oz compared to a 1320.
Phillip

Edit: Go to post #235 on page 10 to see my setup.

asybra00

My Feedback: (12)

Jimmy,

Hey thanks for the response. Now with a 1320 will i still get the same performance from it?? And how will the flight times differ?? I remember reading i THINK it was from Tmaniac I THINK he was the one who originally came up with the carbon engine mount design that said he ran a 2100 and recommended it? So thats what i was goin off of........... But if you think this battery setup would be better im definately game for it as long as performance wont be sacrificed at all im still learnin all the "electric" lingo I used to fly gas or glow before i joined the Army........ now unfortunatly due to an injury i have to start all over because i sold all my old stuff and electric is one area ive always been interested in learning more about. Any advice or knowledge would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all so much for the GREAT tips, etc.

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

"Performance" means different things to different people. There is always going to be a trade off on different setups. A 2100 battery will give a shorter duration flight than a 1320. By how much I dobn't know because I don't time my flights. I prefer a plane that 3D's well more than top speed performance. The Mini Funtana is designed to fly realitively slow, just look at the size of the control surfaces. Try a Thunder Power Pro-lite 1320, I think you will like it.
Phillip

altacom

My Feedback: (3)

That sounds like a lot of motor for that plane. Mine flew well on the 2212/20. The bottom line in Electric is to get the overall weight of a plane as low as possible. Thats where Li-Polys came in. They are a lot lighter than Nicads and Nimh. But even with that advantage, you still have to make sure the airframe and radio system and power source dont push the weight up to where the plane is overweight.

I used 3S-1P 2000 MAH packs, and they came down cold from every flight.

My MF weighed 27 oz. RTF. I don't do 3d, and it was fine for just fun aerobatic flying. Others have come in at about 19 to 21 oz. and comment favorably on the 3D characteristics.

asybra00

My Feedback: (12)

Altacom,

Thanks guys and wow 27 oz. isnt that kind of heavy for this plane or is that about the average that people are getting?? And even at 27 oz. does it still handle well at low speeds, ie. dipping to one side or stalling?? As for the motor yeah i wanted to get something that would work well with other planes if i should decide to transfer electronics to another plane as time goes on. But then again ive heard that this motor, esc combo will "THEORETICALLY" hover at around 1/2 throttle or so, ill put it to the test and see lol.

Jimmy,

Hey when using the 3120 you get BETTER flight times?? Like i said i am learning all the electric mumbo and i thought with the larger battery i would have longer times?? Or with the 2100 would i just have more power?? Do you know know how much the 1320 sells for at all??

altacom

My Feedback: (3)

For just fun flying and aerobatics, even at that weight it flew well. Landings were straight and it showed no signs of tip stalling provided you kept the speed up on approach. But then most any plane will stall if you get it too slow on landing.

As to Li-Po's, the higher the MAH you can carry, the longer the flight times for a given current draw. Once in the air, the prop unloads, and the current draw goes down to about 75% of the static (on the bench) current draw. In addition the RPM of the motor increases by about 10% after the prop unloads. This allows you to run pretty close in MAH to what the current is.

For example if you are drawing 25 AMPS, you would want to have a 2500 MAH pack. You could get by with a 1200 to 1500 pack if they are rated at 20C. Most packs, off the shelf are 10C meaning they cannot handle more current than 10 times the MAH rating of the pack.

A 20C 2500 MAH Pack can theoretically handle 50 AMPS continuous. I have tried this, and found that the packs tend to get hot and the capacity (overall life) is drastically reduced.
If Li-Po's are never taken below 3 Volts per cell, never get hot under load or charge, and if stored for long times take down to about half charge, they can give in the range of 600 cycles. For each of the abusses of these parameters, the life of the battery goes down.

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

I think 3120 may have been a misprint on your part. I'm sure that the 1320 will provide less flight time than a larger 2100. If flight durlation is your priority, go with a 2100. The 2100 should also be able to provide slightly more continous amps. TP 1320's sell for $50 at my LHS.
Phillip

asybra00

My Feedback: (12)

Hey all good advice.......... Kinda bummed out now though. Went and talked to the LHS and they cant get any AXi motors on island for like a month or two (gotta love the island life, NOT). So i went out and bought what they had, ended up with a E-Flite 480, and a CC Pheonix 35, so now ill probably just get the 2100 battery and call it good. Hopefully the E-Flite will at least be DESCENT?? Any thoughts on that??

Todd D

My Feedback: (51)

Well I finally got my MF done. Mounted the Hacker 30-28 on 2/56 rods inside CF tubes. Motor is totally adjustable for thrust, up, down, right, whatever. All up weight is 24.3 ounces with my Apogee 2080 Li-Po packs. Seems to pull real hard on the bench with 11X4.7, I may try the 10/4.7 also. Now if the weather would just cooperate. 42 degrees here today, blahh. Happy Easter.

conradj87

My Feedback: (1)

Hey guys, after I fly my MF the spinner gets hot. not too hot to touch, just warm really. I am running an E-Flite 450 outrunner 20 amp e-flie esc with a 3s 2100 TP lipo. I know its not a great setup, just what the hobby store had at the time. I was wondering how hot the motor should or shouldn't run. The battery and ESC were both barely warm.
Thanks

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

Jomamma,
I wouldn't worry about the spinner temp.

Have you tried a TP 1320 battery? The 2 oz weight reduction completely changes the flight characteristics of a MF.
Phillip

altacom

My Feedback: (3)

Most of the motors will let you know if they are overheating by either just cutting out, or running intermittently until they cool.
So far for me, I have never burned out a motor so long as I stay within the limits in the specifications.
It's the nature of an electric motor to get warm, thats how it handles the watts, turning them into heat - same as a light bulb. And in the summer, the Motors, ESC's and batteries will run hotter.
Just stay within the specs of the equipment and you'll not have any problems.

conradj87

My Feedback: (1)

thanks guys I was just wondering b/c I recently had a motor quit working, it would just jerk back and forth about a 16th of a turn, like it was stuck between 2 magnets. Just making sure it wasn't bad equipment. I have not tried the 1320. what kind of flight times do you normally get with it?
Thanks for your help guys,
Joe

altacom

My Feedback: (3)

What kind of motor was it. If you never crashed the plane hard enough to hurt the motor, most manfacturers will replace it for free.

Hobby Lobby will even replace a user damaged motor for half price. Which is why every motor I have came from Hobby Lobby.

Jimmy Hoffa

My Feedback: (3)

With a Hacker A20-20L and a APC 10x4.7SF prop, the 1320 will go for 6 minutes and still have a battery voltage of 11.1 to 11.3 volts depending on how hard it was pushed. Personally, I prefer quality over quantity.
Phillip

conradj87

My Feedback: (1)

So a couple months ago I was out flying my MF and the motor cut out. I assumed I hit the voltage cutoff and landed it nicely in the grass. I put a new bat. in and when I hit the throttle I got nothing. The control surfaces work, but the motor was not even trying. I called Horizon he said it sounded like the Motor had quit. I took it up to the hobby shop and bought a new motor, still didn't work. So I got the speed control and everything worked fine. Both the motor and the Speed control were shot. When I tried the old motor it just jerked back and fourth, like it had a short. So with new motor and speed control everything was fine. I was out flying last week, same deal. Motor stopped turning over halfway into the flight, put it down softly, motor jerked back and fourth again while the speed control got way too hot. I shot horizon an email and the guy I talked to offered no help. Instead he told me I should buy a better motor for the plane. Not what I really wanted to hear. Today I called and asked about returning the broken motor(s) to get my money back. He said I could send them in to be looked at. Nobody had any idea why that would happen twice in a row. Not sure if anybody is still on this thread but figured I would give it a shot. Thanks for any help
Joe
Park 450 brushless
20 A ESC
2100 mah lipo
all E-Flite

altacom

My Feedback: (3)

Sounds like you are exceeding the current draw that both the motor and speed control can handle.

Check the Current draw at wide open throttle, and make sure you arent going over current. An time you are overheating either or both the motor and Speed control, it usually indicates overloading (over current). And if your batteries are hot, you will reduce their life drastically.

I have motors that are 6 years old, and still running perfectly. But only because they are running within the specifications for the motor and ESC. Any time you come down with any components that are hot, you are doing somehing out of specs. I always try to get all components to come down either cold or at least not real hot.

A wattmeter is the best tool you can get to insure your components last and are not being abused. Even better, the Eagletree on board data recorder can give you the entire picture of what is going on in the air. And balance charging your batteries will enable you to get the maximum life out of them.

If you were flying in colder weather, it probably explains the overall picture. Sometimes in cooler weather things will run cooler, then you go fly on a warmer day, and the components start out at higher temps, and then come down much hotter. My Paramount did that last year. In February thru June it flew great. I went out on a 90 degree day in July, and nearly lost it when the BEC burned out on final approach. The batteries that had been running pretty cool were so hot to the touch I thought they might burst into flames. And of course that Pack had to be gotten rid of.