hobbydude214

My Feedback: (13)

I have been flying this plane for awhile now and its simply the greatest plane ever, even if it didnt fly as great as it does the crashability of it is outstanding. does anyone else have experience with this model?

esaunier

Hobbydude,

Where did you put the battery. Mine is nose heavy like many I'm reading about. It's not as stable in the hover
as I would like but the crashability is great! I'v only got 7 flights on mine.

hobbydude214

My Feedback: (13)

which one do you have the full fuse or old style. mine hovers dead on if anyone else is having trouble feel free to ask ive built and flown both 4d lites

esaunier

I've got the full fuse. I'm open for suggestions.

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

I usually shorten the motor mount stick by an inch or so -- just enough so there is still about 1/4" of balsa BEYOND the very end of the carbon tube. This gets the CG back a little and helps make your waterfalls super tight by getting the center of mass close to the CG. Trim the front of foam to clear the prop.

If you want to get your CG farther back still, try taping pennies to your fuselage and move them as you like. You can also stick pieces of solder inside the rudder axle and glue them there once you find the point you like.

esaunier

Where exactly are you balancing on the wing? Book says 4 3/4 inches from the leading edge. I'm shooting for 5 inches.
Everything about the plane is nice except the hover. I don't have alot of time with the 4d yet so I may be jumping the gun with
my complaint. I'm also a bit heavy using a 900mah batterywhich ways 63grams. I'm at 10.9 ounces- 306grams.
That shouldn't really affect the hover, eh?
I'm going to fly 4 batteries tomorrow indoors in a barn so maybe I'll have more feedback for you guys tomorrow.

Any thoughts on thrust line? I seemed to have to hold up elevator in the hover so I though I'd move the Himax down a bit
to see if that solves it.

thanks for the interest.

esaun

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

Yea, that CG in the manual is good for an outdoor "compromise", but not the best for indoor hovering.

My best hovering 4D lite has a CG which is 5 3/8" from the LE, so you can go pretty far back and still be controllable.

It's easy to make a plane more tail heavy. Be thankful it's not the other way around!

esaunier

Ok Junkie, I'll try that CG. Do you have to hold much up elevator in the hover? Where do most people realy come in on for
weight. I'd be 10.5 ounces if I used a 730mah. I'm going to move the thrust line a bit tomorrow and see what that brings.
Also, how are you getting the CG that far back. My battery is already on top of the wing, half way back in the fuse. I don't
want to add weight.
esaun

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

I probably have more paint than you do for one thing, and my motor is VERY far back -- the balsa stick is only about 1.5" long. (I don't crash nose first as much as I used to, so my mount can afford to be less forgiving ...

Most people are at the weight you are. It flys great up to about 11.5 oz and then things go downhill fast. Don't worry about a few pennies on the tail, or even a dime. You'll be surprised how little weight in the tail it will take to get the CG where you want it.

I wouldn't move the thrust line just yet. Re-balance the plane for the new CG and then fly it making triple sure to re-adjust your elevator trim. You should find VERY little if any down elevator is needed to hold inverted. If it's the same for upright then I bet you'll find hovering won't take any elevator trim either.

Also make sure your engine mount isn't wobbly. They get that way after a few crashes and that screws up the thrust incidence. You should find that KE's are super neutral if your thrust line is right. Once KE is trimmed good, hovers work themselves out with this plane.

esaunier

OK Junkie,

much progress today. Flew 4 batteries worth in a friends indoor arena. Getting perfectly still air was what I needed. I flew at
about 5 inches aft and I'm starting to dial in abit. Not enough room to try inverted to test trim though. Flew without the cowl
because this arena has a sand floor and I had to wrap the Himax in a baggy to keep the sand out. Best move I made. I'm still
suspect of the thrust line because burst of power in the hover and she pitches down a bit. Could be me still. Inverted the mount and
she pitches up with a burst. I'll get the bugs out. Everybody talks about being nose heavy! I wonder if the fuse should be
an inch longer? Where is your battery? Mine is on top and 3/4 back in the fuse. Used a penny on the tail also. Last thing--
It seemed at times hard to prevent a torque roll with ailerons. At times it would roll at least 180 degress before I could stop it and
usually by then it falls off to one side. Bottom line---I'm very pleased with the machine!!! It was fun!! The durability is the
greatest of all!!!! An hour of bouncing off things and I don't have any repair work to do. Hat's off to Tufflight.

esaun

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

That's good news Esean.

My battery is in the stock location on the bottom.

Not sure about the torque roll stoppage. I have lots of planes that do this-- both glo fuel and electric, and it is usually momentary. I chalk it up to "wierd" vortices that are holding my ailerons hostage.

I got to thinking: I have a 4D lite that is too nose heavy also, and I'm going to put a heavy tail skid on it. My tail is pretty beat up from dragging on pavement, so I'll build back up the foam with more EPP, and then put a music wire skid sticking out of the rudder axle and anchored to the bottom rudder rib. That amount of weight should be perfect.

If the tail was longer, it wouldn't spin as easily. Everything is a compromise...

esaunier

Hey Junkie,

Finally got back to fly again using a new thrust line. Added a stick below the stick that is the mount now. I find the hovers much
improved! CG is probably about 5.25 inches back now. I'm dialing in slowly. I very much like this airplane!!

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

Great!

Trimming to taste is half the fun.

When you get comfortable with it, try this landing:

Get into a inverted harrier heading back to the pits, and at the "very last moment" flick the tail full down, give a blip of power and quickly shut off the throttle. It should do an about face and plop right down onto its gear facing away from you.

Practice away from yourself at first, but when you master the flick you can fly directly at yourself and land at your feet.

That gets a smile from onlookers every time.

esaunier

OK Junkie,

I had been flying without the forward cowl (while tuning and trimming) and using the 10 inch prop. Well I put the cowl back on
and also tried a 9-3.8 prop. HUGE difference in hover behavior. Rock solid with no torque roll issues. I'll try it without the
cowl this weekend and know for sure. I can notice no loss in characteristics. Have you tried a 9 inch prop?

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

9 inch prop? I seem to remember trying the "recommended" prop for the 2808-1160 which was conservatively picked by a non 3D flyer for that motor on 3 cells, but I missed the punch you get out of a hover. It just wasn't as exciting. I'm fairly sure it was a 9x3.8 but I don't remember for sure.

If you like the smaller prop, stay with it. I tend to go with as big a prop as a particular motor can stand power wise, just on general principle.

I think George Hicks talked about some bad effects from big props in one of his articles (3D flyer?) So far I've been able to trim all my 4D lites to hover pretty good by just playing with CG and right thrust (or changing thrust angle if up or down due to crashes and loose mounts). The rear CG helps the most.

esaunier

Finally got back to flying with cowl and both 9 and 10 inch prop. The cowling makes a huge difference in hover behavior.
It was the cowl and not the prop size that stablized the hovers. The 9 inch prop is less "torquey" in the hover. Not so much
right aileron needed but not as much punch as you say. There's enough though and I will switch back and forth between props
to find what I like. Thanks for your help Junkie. I've got this plane where I like it and I give Tufflight a Grade "A" for the design.
Probably won't be back on this thread for a while. Because of Work and Xmas. Thanks Man

esaun