Go Back  RCU Forums > Electric Aircraft Universe > 3D Electric Flying!
Reload this Page >

How to start flying? 3D?

Notices
3D Electric Flying! Discuss all aspects of Electric 3D RC flying here!

How to start flying? 3D?

Old 04-10-2007, 06:45 PM
  #1  
darticus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: sparta, NJ
Posts: 1,356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default How to start flying? 3D?

I have a 55 yak 3D and would like to fly but never flew a plane only a heli. Is there an easy way to get started?
Old 04-10-2007, 08:30 PM
  #2  
packyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

The best way would be to put that plane on the shelf and get a trainer plane. Learning to fly has its ups and downs even when learning on an airplane that is best suited to inexperienced flyers. You don't need to tip the scales by flying a touchy easily overcontrolled plane with no airfoil and way too much power. There are a few threads in the parkflyer forum and/or general discussion forums for good beginner aircraft. Even with heli experience I can't see your first flights lasting long or going very well. I would also suggest flight sim time for orientation help and not much else. While sim time is good to get used to aircraft I've found that it is absolutely no substitute for time on the real sticks. I find the "sim" to not mean simulator so much as 'similiar'.
Old 04-10-2007, 08:57 PM
  #3  
89ram
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: blue rapids, KS
Posts: 2,603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?


ORIGINAL: packyj

The best way would be to put that plane on the shelf and get a trainer plane. Learning to fly has its ups and downs even when learning on an airplane that is best suited to inexperienced flyers. You don't need to tip the scales by flying a touchy easily overcontrolled plane with no airfoil and way too much power. There are a few threads in the parkflyer forum and/or general discussion forums for good beginner aircraft. Even with heli experience I can't see your first flights lasting long or going very well. I would also suggest flight sim time for orientation help and not much else. While sim time is good to get used to aircraft I've found that it is absolutely no substitute for time on the real sticks. I find the "sim" to not mean simulator so much as 'similiar'.
i agree. if you can locate a club or an experienced pilot to help you, your plane will last ALOT longer. and the yak is NOT a trainer. i have one and i love it, but i learned to fly in 1991!
Old 04-11-2007, 11:18 AM
  #4  
Y2KGTP
Senior Member
My Feedback: (17)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

I'm in the same boat. I have a Heli as well, and a couple firebird commander II's. I have the same Yak-55's I got on sale from HL, and just am waiting for my
DX6 to show up along with a few other items.

I figure the plane should be fine, as long as I have DR set to low throws initially and a good EXP to make it less sensitive to start out with. I bought 3 of the same Yak-55's as they were so cheap, in the event of excessive crashes that I can't just repair.
Old 04-11-2007, 06:31 PM
  #5  
dashunde
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: lincoln, NE
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

G.3 or Reflex simulators is the way to go.
I'm a former heli guy too, and those sims have done wonders for my real world flying.
Old 04-11-2007, 06:37 PM
  #6  
Y2KGTP
Senior Member
My Feedback: (17)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

I have ClearView for about 3 years, and just started playing around with G3......it's ok...
Old 04-11-2007, 07:32 PM
  #7  
flyingace451
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hixson, TN
Posts: 955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

Pssh...don't drop the plane for a trainer. All you have to do is tone the control throws on the plane as far down as possible, which will make the plane slow and predictable. I think that 3D planes with toned down control throws make the best trainers. With your heli experience you definately don't need to go and start from square one. When you're ready for 3D then just raise the throws up and it'll be ready to go.
Old 04-11-2007, 10:21 PM
  #8  
darticus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: sparta, NJ
Posts: 1,356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

GREAT! What is a CONTROL throw? How do you tone them down? Where are they? If I new I would fix it. A few flyers told me this.
Old 04-12-2007, 06:10 AM
  #9  
darticus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: sparta, NJ
Posts: 1,356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

Here is the yak 55 I'm trying to fly.Now what are throws?
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ca82898.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	17.0 KB
ID:	662493  
Old 04-12-2007, 06:14 AM
  #10  
packyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

If you do end up learning on a low throw 3d plane you have to realize that they do not fly as traditional planes and you will learn a few bad habits if you intend on flying full airfoil airplanes in the future. With a flat wing design there is little to no lift generated by the airplane so you will have to maintain or gain altitude solely on the sticks.

Control throw is just the distance that the servos are allowed to push and pull the control surface. Computer radios with dual rates allow you to set two "throws" and switch between them with a toggle. For instance you could have the servos moving a full rates both directions on all surfaces and with a flip of the switch have them moving at 20% of their maximum throws. This makes the plane far less touchy and also less agile.
Old 04-12-2007, 06:33 AM
  #11  
darticus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: sparta, NJ
Posts: 1,356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

I have the JR Sport radio S400 and don't think it allows me to change a throw setting. Should I drill holes in the servo arms to change distance?
Old 04-12-2007, 09:03 AM
  #12  
Y2KGTP
Senior Member
My Feedback: (17)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?


ORIGINAL: darticus

I have the JR Sport radio S400 and don't think it allows me to change a throw setting. Should I drill holes in the servo arms to change distance?

You would want to get as close to the servo "gear" as possible, as the S400 does not seem to have EXP or Dual rates to play with.
Old 04-12-2007, 09:40 AM
  #13  
paulsen
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
paulsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

lets look at your ultimate goal here, you want to be able to fly 3D. You need expo function to fly 3D. However 1st you need to learn to fly fixed wing aircraft, so you won't "need" them now (would make it easy though) all you have to do is setup your radio gear for short throws. BUT!!! why go through all the setup of your control linages twice? I would recomend getting a radio that has all the functions you need for your end goal... 3D flying. l use the same radio for flying 3D heli's as I do for 3D airplanes, so there is one option use you heli radio. Either way you want to have duel rates and expo in the end.

A simulator is the best investment you can make at this point, and will be a must if you ever get into 3D. There are some new ones out that are supposed to rival reality like pheonix, aerofly, G3 ect... BTW reflex is kinda old news like my old G2 sim.

I'm sure with your heli skills you will transition to fixed wing flying in no time so you might as well have a plane/radio setup that is 3D ready too.
Old 04-12-2007, 10:03 AM
  #14  
paulsen
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
paulsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

[quote]ORIGINAL: packyj

If you do end up learning on a low throw 3d plane you have to realize that they do not fly as traditional planes and you will learn a few bad habits if you intend on flying full airfoil airplanes in the future. With a flat wing design there is little to no lift generated by the airplane so you will have to maintain or gain altitude solely on the sticks.

quote]



The yak he has does have a fully symetrical airfoil. I think the hardest part about flying this plane is the instablity and it's hard to see at beginer hight (5-10 mistakes high) due to it's small size.

I'm sure you will learn just fine with your foamy yak. Have fun!
Old 04-12-2007, 01:31 PM
  #15  
darticus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: sparta, NJ
Posts: 1,356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

What do we mean by short throws? I have bought a radio already and it does not offer me to set short throws. Does it mean to make my linkage on all servos shorter? Paulsen says use my heli radio but my radio is from my Cp Pro, will this do for the future? Thanks Ron
Old 04-12-2007, 08:05 PM
  #16  
Y2KGTP
Senior Member
My Feedback: (17)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

Well, since you already have the JR Sport radio S400 (and I assume you can't return it ?) I would just work with what you have, and get a "better" radio down the line. Better radio meaning: Exp, dual rates, Servo travel adjustment, etc.

For the moment, you could mount the linkage closest to the servo gear (Blue X) as this will give you the least amount of movement to the control surface compared to out near the red X. Just a thought.


Old 04-12-2007, 08:14 PM
  #17  
Y2KGTP
Senior Member
My Feedback: (17)
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Deltona, FL
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

And this might just be silly, but i just thought of it


What if you cut a small piece of stiff cardboard with a square cut in the middle to limit the actual throw of the stick? You could just mount to the
radio with some double sided tape, so it is easily removable. Just a thought......

Old 04-14-2007, 03:55 AM
  #18  
paulsen
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
paulsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

I wouldn't bother trying to use the blade cp radio because there is revo mixing pre programed in the radio that would move your rudder everytime you moved the throttle.

If your not planing on buying a computer radio you will be fine with yours setup with your linkages in the 2nd hole out from the servo arms (or what ever it takes to get the kit instructions recomended "low rate" throws). This will get you started. When you have learned to fly you could see how "full throws" are by moving the linkages out to the end of the servo arms. I know that flying a plane with 45-50 degree throws on ele/rud with no expo is like riding a unicycle and juggling 3 half full bottles of beer while ballencing a beach ball on your head though, so don't be discuraged if it is hard to fly 3D with that radio because I bet the yak is fully capable.
Old 04-14-2007, 12:51 PM
  #19  
Truglodite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 851
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

imo, foamy frames are so cheap that i'd start with a bigger plane with smaller control surface ratios. ie: use the radio equipment you bought for the yak, and install it in a larger trainer type foamy until you can land blindfolded. when you're ready for more aerobatic capabilities, crush the trainer and put the electronics in the yak.

it should cost less to learn this way, since a trainer has a wing that's designed have very gentle stall tendencies and much less torque coupling (torque coupling=roll & pitch change with throttle). since the yak is fully capable, it is shaped such that it will snaproll very quickly during a stall. that's what makes it capable, it's inherantly unstable and you have to fly it (won't recover itself like a trainer can). this will make landing the yak difficult if you aren't already familiar with stall recoveries, regardless of your control rates. in fact, fairly large control rates are usually required to recover from stalls with 3D planes, so you don't want to be stuck with low rates when things get ugly near the deck.

not that you can't learn on the yak, but i have a feeling you'll be more satisfied with your rate of progress if you start on something meant for beginners. i've been flying planks for over 20yrs, and i've seen my fair share of disgruntled beginners trying to fly wild planes.

just my $.02, hope it helps you out.
-Kev
Old 04-14-2007, 01:18 PM
  #20  
darticus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: sparta, NJ
Posts: 1,356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

Thanks for the info! Do you think I could use a Super Cub RTF? Also bought a slick that i'm building.Not my slick but a real nice one in this pic.Thanks Ron
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv65427.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	17.0 KB
ID:	663999   Click image for larger version

Name:	Vq50694.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	69.7 KB
ID:	664000  
Old 04-15-2007, 02:12 AM
  #21  
Truglodite
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sac, CA
Posts: 851
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

a supercub would make an excellent trainer. cubs have been a widely accepted trainer for decades, and the supercub (aka "clip wing cub") is the same thing with a shorter wing so it cuts through wind better and is more aerobatic (probably sounds exactly like what you want, huh?). since you have some training in orientation from your helis, you'll probably do fine with an aileron trainer. there are many supercub rtf's with and without ailerons, so i'm not sure if the supercub you're looking at has ailerons. they're nice to have on a trainer so you aren't adding another unfamiliar dimension with your second plane (which your 2nd typically has ailerons, especially if you're intending to get in to 3D).

fyi, the downside of going with rtf is the components are usually not high end, so you're more likely find the included electronics to be undesirable to use in future planes. if you found a supercub rtf that has decent electronics, you'll probably still be looking at getting a better radio when you go 3D. since you already do helis, you may already have a programmable radio. a programmable radio, along with proprietary electronics that came in the supercub may fly well in your yak, but it probably won't be spot on what you want. on the other hand, having a programmable radio will certainly help the cost of building a non rtf trainer from high quality separate components. going that route (high quality components in an arf or kit) is always better, since you have the option of getting an ideal set of electronics to use in your yak.

once you get good with a supercub, you'll probably know the difference between good and bad components, and will want to have all the nicest stuff to put in your yak. so i suggest trying to find a nice setup for the yak first, buy the electronics, then search for a trainer that works well with those electronics (supercub or other). this way you'll be ready to transition right in to the yak after training with minimal to no expense when you're ready. that's how many ppl that are in to foamies do it; they get a solid core of electronics, and go from plane to plane every month or so, whether it's just for variety or out of necessity after a bad crash.

good luck,
-kev
Old 04-15-2007, 07:24 AM
  #22  
darticus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: sparta, NJ
Posts: 1,356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

This is the plane.The big wingspan gets me worried or intinidates me. It has ACT in it.
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_h..._super_cub.htm
ACT is a computer system
Two sensors on the Super Cub.,one on the top and one on the bottom of the fuselage, monitor the position of the plane in relation to the ground. When the plane is flying level, the top sensor sees the sky, while the bottom sees the ground, and they tell the onboard computer that the plane is flying correctly. If the plane enters a dive and the sensors detect that the plane’s orientation is incorrect, the system will automatically correct the control inputs and help prevent the plane from crashing, allowing you time to regain control. ACT lets you fly without worry. And once you’ve gained experience with your Super Cub, you can turn ACT off for more complete control and increased maneuverability.


Specifications
Wing Span: 47.75"
Thanks for the Help! Ron
Old 04-15-2007, 07:53 AM
  #23  
green river rc
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
green river rc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Raywick, KY
Posts: 1,036
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

A "toned down" 3D plane does NOT make a good trainer? Who ever said that please take it back. A Sig Kadet LT-40 is a fine trainer plane.
Old 04-15-2007, 12:01 PM
  #24  
Spiccoli
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

Whatever you do, don't tape the cardboard square on it to limit the amount you move the stick. If you did get into trouble, you might need full throw to recover. Dual rates are a much better deal. If you don't have a radio that will do dual rates and exponential, get one.
Old 04-16-2007, 02:31 AM
  #25  
paulsen
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
paulsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: How to start flying? 3D?

The cub will be the best way no doubt. Much better plane to train on, plus it will make you appreciate how the Yak tracks and reacts.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.