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Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

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Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Old 04-15-2007, 04:27 PM
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BERUSTY
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Default Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Genot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

I had the opportunity to judge the final "known" round of the 2007 ETOC and hang out in the pits for (2) evenings. After the event was over, I asked Gernot and his adult sponsor/chaperon if they would consider selling the monoplane "known" competition model, rather than transport home...they were happy to sell it, complete, RTF.

So, if anyone is interested I can provide a thread discussing the details of the model and will fly the model through the 2007 E-TOC "known" and report my findings...

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba, Team YS Performance
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Old 04-15-2007, 06:34 PM
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wgeffon
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Rusty,

Good seeing you again.
I did not realize you bought that airplane. Can we buy his thumbs also?

Thanks for the help with the ETOC.
Old 04-15-2007, 06:55 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Wayne,

I appreciate the opportunity to be a part of the judging/scribe crew...I got to scribe for Ivan Kristensen, one of the founders of precision aerobatics from Canada! The competition was spectacular, with each of the pilots very prepared and improving each flight. Sitting on the "dead line" provided a unique perspective and responsibility to view the flights from a technical perspective.

The model is very interesting and look forward to flying it inside the local YMCA gym that I have permission to use. In my excitement, I failed to ask him exactly which battery he used (I think it is a TP 350 2S). It is EXACTLY as he flew it for the last "known" down to the cracked foam landing gear cuffs...(even the best land hard...)

The hinges are most interesting...at this point...I have NO IDEA how they were done!

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba, YS Performance
2007 USA F3A Team Fund Raising Coordinator
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:23 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

More details and photos please! I know the plane was just part of the fabulous performance we saw but this has to be a awesome chance to see what was done to the airframe.
Old 04-16-2007, 08:04 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

More details...in my excitement to purchase the model I neglected to even ask what battery he used, any mixes and or set-up issues. I have spent a few moments looking it over and it is actually quite a remarkable little model. Literally, every opportunity to use a 1/2 piece of tape, 1/2 tiny foam block, remove a connector, shorten a wire, battery lead, has been done.

My wife has left town for a week with the digital camera so more photos other than the ones I happen to take at the ETOC are unavailable until next week. I have built (and wore out or destroyed) a half dozen E-Flite, Ikarus models and am currently flying a NE Sailplanes Merlin (see my RCU profile page) and fly FAI pattern as little background.

Hinges- appear to be made from sanding a 45 degree groove almost all of the way through the underside of the ailerons, elevator and rudder. There is no adhesive and only a tiny piece of cellophane tape (Ikarus type stuff) at the horn and wing tip. The hinge line feels solid...how long will it last, how was it done?

Motor- The motor is a AXI 2203/52 1525 KV simply glued onto foam "x" created by fuselage profile with a minimal amount of tiny nylon reinforced tape on the ends.

Prop- GWS 9 4.7 stock, not a mark on it from balancing

Speed control- JETI Advance 08 Mini

Servo- (4) Robbe FS31 Clearly the model initially had (1) aileron servo with pushrods at the root. Now uses (2) Robbe FS31 with heat shrink clevis to carbon rod to plastic horn with wires to (2) seperate RX channels...(differential?)

Receiver- JETI Rex 5 MPD using (5) channels

Wing span- About 41" with 11 1/2" chord at edge of fuselage outline.

Fuselage- About 40 3/8" long from rudder to front of prop shaft and 9" deep at canopy.

Weight- 162 grams w/o battery which I saw him change before each flight which looked like a 2S TP about 350 mah uses a little piece of foam to squeeze battery and fuselage profile, no velcro.

The model absolutely has crashed, has some crooked stuff (fuselage is tilted here and there) and the fuselage is VERY stiff with the carbon truss from the fin to the wing.

There are no screws in the elevator and rudder servo (ha!) yet had them in the ailerons and the little vertical wing ding deals at the tips had little holes to access the screws.

Landing gear has no wheels just floats on the botton of the broken/repaired wheel pants and cellophane tape.

The nifty graphics are hand done using magic markers .

The model was by far the most quiet and most constant speed in Gernot's talented hands. I look forward to my wife's return to take care of my little boys (2 and 4) for my first test flights. I will fly it until destruction, trace it and send the templates to (?) to build me a few more.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
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Old 04-16-2007, 09:10 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Thanks for thinking of us and posting all you can as this aircraft is of great interest. Just when everybody thought biplanes were a "must" Gernot shows up and blows us away. Of course he could probably make a GP Flat Out look good after trimming and practice.
Old 04-22-2007, 07:20 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

I have learned a little more about the airplane since my last post. The model is apparently called a "Spark" and I presume it is available in Europe. (I would appreciate any and all information so I can purchase another.)

One obvious feature about the model is that it is very large versus other top designs which I have including the Merlin biplane (J. Glezellis 2006 E-TOC model) and the Manta.

I took an hour this morning programing my Futaba 12MZ with the included components...remember, it came complete, just needed the battery. An interesting feature was that an additional 12volt wire was soldered to the OUTPUT side of the ESC, connecting to a simple little "buss" which the aileron servo "hot" leads (2) were attached, by-passing the RX. I assume this simply gave/gives more current to the aileron servos.

Regarding the aileron servos...I found a video on a European website featuring Gernot and the airplane winning in February of this year. Clearly visible was (1) aileron servo which partially explains the little "patch" added to my model. I wonder if Gernot and the "handlers" decided the model needed greater aileron power for F3P or the more rigorous ETOC schedule. The video also listed the components including the 350 mah 2S battery.

I still have absolutely NO IDEA how the hinging was completed...I am counting on someone reading this thread to let me know...

I expect to fly the model, the F3P and ETOC schedules one morning this week. The local YMCA lets me fly in the 2X basketball court gym at 5:00 AM.

Rusty Dose
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:28 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Yo Rusty
MSComposites will be importing the Spark kit. They had a flier on it at the Toledo booth. I was told it was still in testing and was not yet in production. They probably know they have a winner in the Spark and perhaps it will be out soon. I was told a "few weeks". Maybe the kit will have the hinging secret revealed.
Old 04-27-2007, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

I think this is how hinges are probably made.
method1: (cuting) (see video): http://slope-combat.de/shop/index.ph...ex&cPath=21_42
method2: (sanding) : http://www.abdrehfaktor.de/abdrehfaktor050.htm
Old 04-28-2007, 04:44 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

I had the opportunity to fly the model (4) times this afternoon in a regular size High School Gym. My initial impression is very favorable recognizing that it needs a few mixes here and there to make it even easier to fly.

Stong Points:

- Very constant speed in horizontal and vertical lines. The ceiling height was just enough to complete a top hat with 1/4 rolls and 1/2 square loop with 1/2 roll following the the ETOC knife edge entry into hover...

- The rolling 8-point was just a blast to do with very little rudder to keep the nose up. I did them both outside and inside..fighting the right-hand inside with some mix issues...really pretty to see it with my thumbs doing the work.

- The rolling gold fish with the snaps is interesting and took a few tries to get the speed correct, the airplane just stops...which is once again pretty cool to see.

- The knife edge figure "S" is slow and predictable...once again the speed took a few tries...it can fly very slowly.

- The knife edge entry hover with 1 1/4 rolls left and 3/4 rolls right (something like that) was done particularly well by Gernot during the flights I judged so I was most curious as to my ability to replicate. The model is very stable in hover rolls left nicely, the right hand roll was possible with my skills and kept the model within a 2' horizontal plane...the cool part was the vertical ascent to the 1/2 square...just like it was on a cable and pushed across the top...

- Take-offs and landings were a breeze without wheels..my take-offs looked a little funky...once again patience and the correct speed...

- Flat left hand and right hand circles

- The model feels solid and rigid, the servos center very well, the right thrust is "spot-on" and is very stable in pitch. The CG has to be virtually the same as Gernot's due to the slot for the battery and foam that squeezes the battery in place.

I was flying with a club in Sheboygan, Wisconsin alternating the flying of my Merlin biplane and the Spark. The pilots and guests clearly thought the Spark looked and flew with more grace and style...it really is a very large and slow model.

No one has asked the price...it is not a big secret...considering the pedigree, the fact that I just had to add my battery connector and program my 12MZ radio and fly...it is an incredible value at $350. I would love to acquire another and hope someone brings it into the US market.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba, Team YS Parts and Service

Old 05-01-2007, 05:36 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

More Photos please! I was very glad to see the Spark fly at the ETOC. I think most pilots there had written off the monoplane for indoor. I think it opened some eyes. Could you give a flight comparison from your perspective as to the monoplane, biplane since you have both available? I think you would be in a very good position to expand on the issue.
Old 05-01-2007, 10:23 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Gernot Bruckman ETOC model...

More information please...my previous post was supposed to provide the comparisons...

Perspective is everything, to me.

For example, if your model flying experiences only consisted of flying sport scale P-51 Mustangs with relatively high wing loadings and then flew a popular Sukhoi, Extra, Lazer, Yak that was at least 750 square inches you may hear the following comments:

1. Wow, the airplanes seem to fly smoother, require less input from me to fly along a path in a variety of wind conditions.
2. Wow, the airplane is easier to land, fly rolls, loops and when I slow it down, it does not seem to fall out of the sky.
3. Wow, what engine do you have because this thing is very powerful?
4. Wow, my flying is improving because the model is letting me concentrate more on flying cool stuff than preventing it from crashing.

Take the same pilot and move from the Sukhoi, Extra, Lazer, Yak to 8 - 12 ounce 300 square inch foamy powered by an outrunner and a lipo battery and you may hear the following comments:

1. Wow, inside this gymnasium, this airplane seems to be really easy to fly and man is it powerful!
2. Wow, look at me, I can hover just like the pictures in the magazines.
3. Wow, I have enough power to make a whole bunch of mistakes and not crash this thing.
4. Wow, my flying is improving because the model is letting me concentrate more on flying cool stuff than preventing me from crashing.

The Spark is to typical indoor monoplane or biplane as the above examples. Wing loading, usable power, airframe rigidity (word?), set-up and trimming define our models. The best models are lighter, stiffer, are set-up to their unique potential and are trimmed for the task, schedule or routine.

The Spark is a HUGE indoor airplane that is very light, rigid, quality control system and components. Only John G.'s model had more wing area, yet they probably have similar side area when considering each models side force generators, fuselage sides, landing gear, wheel pants...The Spark feels like solid, is predictable and given a large enough hall, is my absolute favorite indoor airplane.

It needs the following set-up and trim work completed (in no particular order)

1. Throttle curve
2. Aileron Differential
3. Rudder/Aileron mix
4. Rudder/ Elevator mix
5. "Cruise" throttle
6. Rudder exponential

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
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Old 05-04-2007, 05:04 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

HI Rusty,
I just jumped in because I haven't talk to you in years and wanted to say hi!!


Mike McFarland
Old 05-05-2007, 10:30 AM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

BERUSTY,

Thanks for all the helpful info. I would be interested in knowing what size carbon fiber was used for the wing brace, and fuselage supports, and any other carbon on the plane.

Mini ifo
Old 05-05-2007, 04:06 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Could you clarify this a bit more? sounds as if you saying the aileron servos are running at battery voltage....which is not as bad as its sounds..I presume in flight pack voltage is under 7v so a 6v rated servo is only 16% over spec but during a control check with a fresh pak you might be at 8.2v or more, motor off

"An interesting feature was that an additional 12volt wire was soldered to the input side of the ESC, connecting to a simple little "buss" which the aileron servo "hot" leads (2) were attached, by-passing the RX. I assume this simply gave/gives more current to the aileron servos."
Old 05-05-2007, 05:02 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Like Mini Ifo, I'm very interested in the bracing involved. I've been seriously persuing several ideas for F3 and have incorporated those in a testbed. Its nearly the size of the Spark at 39.4"ws(thats an IKARUS YAK next to it below) and has flown at 164grams although it is currently being flown outdoors with a 460mah pack at 185g.
One of the problems I've had was wing flex which ended up needing more bracing than a single X stru, I added CF ribbon on the LE also...so how the Spark handles the loads would be a big help with future designs.
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Old 05-06-2007, 10:04 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Mike,

I can smell your pipe from here...(Mike smokes a pipe in between rounds on occasion...)and I will never forget the first knife edge loop performed by a pattern airplane at an Omahawks contest years ago. I think you were flying one of Charlie's designs with a piped .61...1987 or 1988?

Hello to you!

Rusty
Old 05-06-2007, 10:12 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Gernot Bruckman model...

Regarding the bracing...I will take more detailed photos of the truss system...the carbon fiber is very thin, smaller than any of the stuff with an Ikarus kit. The Bruckman "Spark", my name hence forth...is a world class model design executed very, very well. It flies "stiffer" or has less "airframe energy disapation/absorbtion" than any other foamy that I have flown. This is why it is fun to fly...my inputs are driving the model rather than learning the "flex" timing of a particular manuever.

Perform a simple test. Go to your local hobby shop and buy a $1.89 balsa glider (yes, they have become more expensive). Build it and take 20 minutes fiddleing with the balance and trim including launch and glide modes. Then build the best "paper" airplane you possibly can and invest the same 20 minutes trimming.

Which one flies better and why?

Rusty Dose
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Old 05-09-2007, 12:34 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

For those who may not be aware, there are several vids of Garnot's plane flying at ETOC on my site. The ETOC trailer has a few clips and there is a QuickTake at the top of the page with one of his practice sessions. Finishing up the DVD edit soon. -Fred
http://higherplaneproductions.com/
Old 05-17-2007, 09:54 AM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Here is the link for the new SPARK kit.

http://www.mscompositusa.com/spark-a...ml#description

Mini Ifo
Old 05-18-2007, 08:40 AM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Thank you for the link to MS Composits...I called and ordered the last kit they had in stock yesterday afternoon. It will be interesting to see how similar the kit vs. Gernot's version. My friend Troy Newman, well known FAI pattern pilot will be at my home in a few weeks and I mentioned that we could get up at 5:00 AM to fly the model at the local YMCA. If we are MOTIVATED, I will report back on Troy's flight comments.

Rusty Dose
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Old 05-19-2007, 06:45 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!


..............Regarding the aileron servos...I found a video on a European website featuring Gernot and the airplane winning in February of this year. Clearly visible was (1) aileron servo which partially explains the little "patch" added to my model. I wonder if Gernot and the "handlers" decided the model needed greater aileron power for F3P or the more rigorous ETOC schedule. The video also listed the components including the 350 mah 2S battery.............
Rusty, Could you provide a link to this video?

Regards,
Tom
Old 05-19-2007, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

Gernot Bruckman videos...

Tom,

Using Google I typed "Gernot Bruckman" and looked at stuff...I tried again and could not find it...maybe it was another RCU post? Here is one that I did find which is well done of a large model...

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/434453

Gernot is an intriguing combination of technical execution, creative routines, good music, focus and seems to be very polite.

Rusty Dose
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Old 06-02-2007, 09:52 AM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

ORIGINAL: Rodine Air Force

I think this is how hinges are probably made.
method1: (cuting) (see video): http://slope-combat.de/shop/index.ph...ex&cPath=21_42
method2: (sanding) : http://www.abdrehfaktor.de/abdrehfaktor050.htm

If anyone is interested, here is the links above with the web pages translated to English.

[link=http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fslope-combat.de%2Fshop%2Findex.php%3Fmain_page%3Dindex%2 6cPath%3D21_42&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8]method 1 (cutting):[/link]

[link=http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.abdrehfaktor.de/abdrehfaktor050.htm]method 2 (sanding):[/link]
Old 06-02-2007, 07:04 PM
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Default RE: Gernot Bruckman ETOC airplane in detail!

So the Depron skin itself serves as the hinge. Interesting.

Tom

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